3 ms·

Why not? Just make a bill: * cable fee * the actual service fee * local tax * ... * federal tax Nothing wrong about transparency

tptacek 3y ago
There is in this instance, because the "fees" we're talking about here are intrinsically non-transparent --- they're not fees, they're taxes, and local governments force Comcast to call them fees in their franchise contracts. Comcast probably shouldn't play along here, because those taxes harm their users. I'm betting that if I surveyed my town, not one resident in 50 knows they're being charged a Comcast Tax by the local government; they just assume these fees are all Comcast soaking them. That's a problem, not because Comcast is good (they're odious), but because it establishes a precedent that municipalities can raise money from residents without going through the actual transparent levy process that everyone pays attention to. Fuck that! Municipal governments should get in front of their residents and tell them they're doing this, and not sneak it onto Comcast's price label as if it were a decision Comcast had made.
- crote 3y ago
  Wouldn't Comcast want customers to know, then? Why would Comcast not be jumping in joy at the chance to explicitly state "Hickville Municipal Broadband Tax/Fee" on their bills and get people to complain to the municipality about it?
  - tptacek 3y ago
    Because nobody realizes that these are taxes; most customers just look at the bottom line, then scan up to see all the nickle-and-dime bullshit Comcast is charging them, and municipalities know this and slip into it. It's a dark pattern.
    - crote 3y ago
      It sounds like Comcast would not be having this problem if they were being honest - which is exactly what the FCC is trying to do.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      I don't think anyone cares if they are called fees or taxes. The question is: Why can't Comcast calculate/list them at the point of sale? They seem to be able to easily calculate and list them when it's time to bill. Shouldn't there be an API endpoint somewhere called listAllFeesForStreetAddress(address) that both the billing and the marketing system can call? The fact that the billing systems do this but the marketing systems don't must be a deliberate choice by the company.
      - tptacek 3y ago
        Why aren't you asking for a legal standard municipalities have to adhere to to publish a machine-readable summary of cable/internet franchise fees given a URL with a zip code embedded in it? It's the municipality behind these fees, not Comcast.
        ryandrake 3y ago
        Because it is not relevant to the question of why Comcast can easily list these costs on one web page but not on another page.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  But that's a completely different argument than Comcast is making. Comcast is saying that compliance is too difficult or costly. That sounds like clear BS to me, because they have no problem handling that stuff when it comes to collecting the payments.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    It is difficult! At every point of sale, they need a system that generates a price list for arbitrary zip codes. It's not insurmountable, obviously, but it's a thing they're being asked to build, that they shouldn't have to build at all, because these fees are bullshit.

tptacek 3y ago

There is in this instance, because the "fees" we're talking about here are intrinsically non-transparent --- they're not fees, they're taxes, and local governments force Comcast to call them fees in their franchise contracts. Comcast probably shouldn't play along here, because those taxes harm their users. I'm betting that if I surveyed my town, not one resident in 50 knows they're being charged a Comcast Tax by the local government; they just assume these fees are all Comcast soaking them. That's a problem, not because Comcast is good (they're odious), but because it establishes a precedent that municipalities can raise money from residents without going through the actual transparent levy process that everyone pays attention to. Fuck that! Municipal governments should get in front of their residents and tell them they're doing this, and not sneak it onto Comcast's price label as if it were a decision Comcast had made.

crote 3y ago
Wouldn't Comcast want customers to know, then? Why would Comcast not be jumping in joy at the chance to explicitly state "Hickville Municipal Broadband Tax/Fee" on their bills and get people to complain to the municipality about it?
- tptacek 3y ago
  Because nobody realizes that these are taxes; most customers just look at the bottom line, then scan up to see all the nickle-and-dime bullshit Comcast is charging them, and municipalities know this and slip into it. It's a dark pattern.
  - crote 3y ago
    It sounds like Comcast would not be having this problem if they were being honest - which is exactly what the FCC is trying to do.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I don't think anyone cares if they are called fees or taxes. The question is: Why can't Comcast calculate/list them at the point of sale? They seem to be able to easily calculate and list them when it's time to bill. Shouldn't there be an API endpoint somewhere called listAllFeesForStreetAddress(address) that both the billing and the marketing system can call? The fact that the billing systems do this but the marketing systems don't must be a deliberate choice by the company.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      Why aren't you asking for a legal standard municipalities have to adhere to to publish a machine-readable summary of cable/internet franchise fees given a URL with a zip code embedded in it? It's the municipality behind these fees, not Comcast.
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        Because it is not relevant to the question of why Comcast can easily list these costs on one web page but not on another page.
JohnFen 3y ago
But that's a completely different argument than Comcast is making. Comcast is saying that compliance is too difficult or costly. That sounds like clear BS to me, because they have no problem handling that stuff when it comes to collecting the payments.
- tptacek 3y ago
  It is difficult! At every point of sale, they need a system that generates a price list for arbitrary zip codes. It's not insurmountable, obviously, but it's a thing they're being asked to build, that they shouldn't have to build at all, because these fees are bullshit.