12 ms·

Toward a more useful keyboard

144 points by quyleanh 3y ago

teddyh 3y ago
Somewhat reminiscent of iorz feixfuli <https://allhomosapienswelcome.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/iorx-feixfuli-m-j-yilz/ https://allhomosapienswelcome.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/iorx-...>. If you’re prepared to go to these lengths, you’re probably better off just learning the Emacs keybindings.
notbeuller 3y ago
Remapping the non-locking caps lock to control is a no brainer - and if you train yourself to use control-[ to get ESC, then you don’t have to leave the home row. (us keyboard - not sure how that works out in other locales, but caps lock should be eliminated everywhere. Or at least require turning two simultaneous icbm style launch keys to engage.)
- tincholio 3y ago
  I've been using the CAPS LOCK as both Control (on hold) and Escape (tap) for years now, and it's just wonderful. I even kept a similar setup when I built my Dactyl Manuform (one of the large thumb keys is both Control and Escape).
  - grimborg 3y ago
    I did something similar, but I mapped it (on hold) to cmd + control + option + shift so it effectively becomes a new modifier key that I use to define shortcuts that will never clash with any existing shortcuts. I use it to launch / switch to specific apps, move windows, etc.
  - lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
    If I were ever to design a keyboard with a thumb cluster, I would separate out ctrl and esc to separate keys. When typing quickly, I occasionally get an esc when I wanted ctrl. I've tried fiddling with the delays, but I've never gotten it to work quite right 100% of the time. I suspect my timing (how long I hold the caps lock button) varies depending on what I'm doing and how fast I'm typing.
  - Woeps 3y ago
    Oh my.... I never thought of this. but then again, I use the side of my palm for holding control.
- EsportToys 3y ago
  With the TPMouse script, I implemented the activation shortcut as [LShift][RShift][C (trackball mode) / G (grid mode) / Q (quit)], which I felt had a nice balance between deliberateness and easy-to-reach (since you are using it with your hands on homerow). Though because some keyboards have key rollover issues with using both Shifts, [Capslock][<modekey>] is also allowed as an alternative activation shortcut. [0] https://github.com/EsportToys/TPMouse https://github.com/EsportToys/TPMouse
- rgoulter 3y ago
  > caps lock should be eliminated everywhere Caps Lock can be a useful feature. e.g. developers may want to type CONSTANTS_LIKE_THIS; and it's useful to be able to have a "shifted mode" which avoids the need for either alternating shift keys, or holding shift key with a pinky finger. I saw a feature "Caps Word", which automatically returns to the unshifted state as soon as a non-letter key (like space) was pressed. That seems a good idea. That said, yeah, Caps Lock isn't so useful that it's worth putting where it is on typical keyboards.
  - orthoxerox 3y ago
    You still need to press Shift to type the underscores, unless the editor is smart enough to recognize you're in CONSTANT_TYPING_MODE.
    - rgoulter 3y ago
      With CapsLock? Yeah. Though, with using fancy keyboard-remapping software, then "dashes as underscores" can be done automatically. e.g. QMK does it with: https://docs.qmk.fm/#/feature_caps_word https://docs.qmk.fm/#/feature_caps_word
  - bbor 3y ago
    Shoutout to vim - select the text then shift+U. Especially nice cause you can use multi select to do it in many places at once. I bet eMacs can’t do that ;)
    - ngai_aku 3y ago
      Careful now —- probably even easier with emacs! https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Case.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Ca... (Though I use emacs with vim keybindings — evil mode — so I do the same as you)
      - bbor 3y ago
        Very glad you responded kindly, I realized after I posted that that the sarcasm might not be clear. I feel like we’re two soldiers from some long forgotten war, finally shaking hands… ;)
- l-p 3y ago
  > caps lock should be eliminated everywhere Caps Lock is a necessary feature. I need my ÉÈÀÇ and I never could get a compose key working in all inputs, Caps Lock is the only reasonable alternative.
  - teroshan 3y ago
    If you're in need of AZERTY-specific keys and you're on a QWERTY layout, take a look at https://github.com/qwerty-fr/qwerty-fr https://github.com/qwerty-fr/qwerty-fr. It's a strict superset of QWERTY, and it enables entering e.g. è and È with altgr+e and shift+altgr+e respectively.
  - piaste 3y ago
    US-intl can do that just fine, though some people can't stand dead keys.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      Whether dead keys are acceptable or not depends heavily on how frequent they are in the language. The Danish keyboard layout has ¨, ^, ´ and ` on dead keys — those are used in foreign names and a few loanwords — but Æ, Ø, Å are real keys. Having Å, Ø and Æ as dead keys would make as much sense as having V, K and J as dead keys in English.
      - piaste 3y ago
        I use it to type in Danish and Italian, as it happens (plus Swedish and French every now and then). Æ, Ø, Å aren't dead keys, they're available via AltGr + Z, L, and W respectively. However, Italian and French accented letters (as well as Swedish/German Ä/Ö) are available via either AltGr or dead keys - and I find myself almost always using dead keys, perhaps because they are more "logical" so I learned them faster. And of course, typing any kind of quote is a dead key in every language (quote followed by spacebar). By now, after so many years, dead keys are well in muscle memory so they feel barely any slower to type than regular two-key combos (like uppercase letters).
- awesome_dude 3y ago
  > caps lock should be eliminated everywhere BUT HOW CAN I ARGUE ON THE INTERNET WITHOUT IT????????
  - bbor 3y ago
    I find it honestly hilarious that “don’t use caps lock for emphasis” is one of the otherwise very-abstract Hacker News Guidelines. A relic from the great flame wars of the past, I think…
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    Put the shift key where it belongs: under your thumb.
  - bjoli 3y ago
    I know it is a joke, but: In Linux it is easy make pressing both shifts into capslock.
- destructionator 3y ago
  Caps lock is great when you are typing one-handed.
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  Not a pianist, but I also don't get the obession with the home row. I can snipe the ESC key with my left ring finger faster than pressing that key combo. My wrist barely moves for that action, and I haven't had RSI yet after 20 years. I do play the guitar though so maybe that gives me some extra dexterity?
- koprulusector 3y ago
  I don’t use <CTRL> very often, if I think about it, maybe to open and close tabs in a browser or something. But I really liked “tap caps locks for <ESC>, hold for <CTRL>.”
- vaccarium 3y ago
  Caps Lock makes for a wonderful layout switcher key.
- throw10920 3y ago
  inoremap jk <esc> is even more optimal - it's extremely easy to type (in QWERTY, it's under the two strongest fingers you own aside from your thumbs), very fast, and minimally invasive (unless you frequently type the string "jk").
rcarmo 3y ago
This is fun and all but I draw the line at loading kernel extensions to get this sort of functionality.
- nocsi 3y ago
  That’s kinda how it is on Mac unless you want to implement it all via the accessibility api. Even if you go down that route, you’re still limited in window layout and monitoring. A lot of projects end up having to disable sip and hooking the window server in Dock. With these projects, the developer usually ends up abandoning it when they get tired of apple annually pushing out breaking changes. If you really want hyperkey and window management then I’d recommend bettertouchtool.
  - rcarmo 3y ago
    I have those without bettertouch tool (with a combination of standard applications).
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
I wish I was a coding god such that the limiting factor was how quickly I could send commands via hotkeys or the interface or whatever. Hell, there are moments that I have to sit there carefully planning out in my mind the sequence of actions I'll need to take to accomplish some task. The rest of you out there, you're trying to shave 1400ms off your score by being able to use the homerow as if they were arrow keys? Fuck me.
- tincholio 3y ago
  It's not about speed, it's about ergonomics. Minimizing finger movement is a good thing.
- TonyStr 3y ago
  There are times when you think, plan and read code, and there are times when you just write. Getting fast and accurate at typing allows you to think more freely as you no longer have to think about the individual characters that make up the words you're typing
- eviks 3y ago
  If only there existed other factors besides speed that would make more convenient keyboard design better...
  - rf15 3y ago
    Agreed. Also, if only there already existed (for more than half a century too) hard- and software specialised for typing speed that you could use instead of the general purpose system you have available on every computer... Truly a horrible underdeveloped world we live in, that we have to hack together our configs and code to this degree and having to watch as no wheel in existence can ever be as good as the one I just now built in five minutes. (terribly sorry for the bitter sarcasm, it's a pain point of mine)
- 000ooo000 3y ago
  Do you ever go to sit down in front of the tele to watch a movie, and right as you get comfortable, you realise "Bollocks, I forgot to turn that light off"? So you get up, turn off the light, sit back down, and then remember "ah I left my nice warm beverage out of reach". If you are like me, each one of those moments is like a little mental kick in the groin, and that's kind of what it feels like when I reach for the mouse to move a window or click a button I can't just activate with the KB, or when I have to spam Ctrl+RArrow to move across a line. I like to minimise those mental kicks to my groin. I'm not so fussed on speed, I just don't like feeling inefficient in that way.
msravi 3y ago
Seems to be mac-only. Please just have the README state that someplace. Not apparent at all.
- mritzmann 3y ago
  Funny enough, in most cases it's the other way around.
- Blaiz0r 3y ago
  It's included in the Dependencies section which unfortunately is at the end
- veidr 3y ago
  On Linux, I use keyd[1] and while I understand that keyd itelf could never run on the Mac, I'd love something that could take my keyd conf and make it work (even approximately) on the Mac. [1]: https://github.com/rvaiya/keyd https://github.com/rvaiya/keyd
  - rgoulter 3y ago
    Kmonad is cross platform. https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/ https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/
  - yewenjie 3y ago
    There is also https://github.com/k0kubun/xremap https://github.com/k0kubun/xremap for Linux
eviks 3y ago
> To activate, push the s and d keys simultaneously and hold them down That's a very inconvenient combo for such frequent an action. Why not some right thumb key instead?
- lawn 3y ago
  I do something similar and using the ring + middle finger is actually super comfortable (at least for me). I have it as a one-shot Ctrl (I can either hold or tap it to modify the next keypress). And yes, it's more comfortable than remapping caps-lock, although I don't use a standard keybord layout and using the weak pinky for such a common action is far from optimal (I use the 34 key Ferris).
  - eviks 3y ago
    Agree re. Caps, it's indeed not a great key (pinky+lateral move), though could't get to a comfortable enough use for simultaneous key presses myself, and with a right Command available for the same functionality not sure it's worth training much as nothing beats thumbs in ease of use
- andromeduck 3y ago
  On macbooks at least left and right command keys cannot be detected simultaneously because it's a rare enough use case that they'd rather skimp the 1/4 cent on a diode. If you want modal thumb keys on a standard keyboard, JIS is pretty much your only option.
  - eviks 3y ago
    what do you mean? just tested left+right command simultaneous key press with Karabiner on a macbook and it worked. Also I meant a single right command (or option) as a modifier key instead of S+D
    - andromeduck 3y ago
      What model? Didn't work on any wireless magic keyboards I had or retina mbp 2016 and 2018.
hexo 3y ago
I read more useful, I see taking bad example from archaic units. Stop that hjkl bs.
noelwelsh 3y ago
To me, making the keyboard more useful is much more about changing the shape of the keyboard than remapping a bunch of keys. An ergo shape and putting more functionality on the thumbs (see the Moonlander for an example, but there are a number of keyboards that do this) has done more to improve my keyboarding experience than twiddling what Control does.
- TacticalCoder 3y ago
  > To me, making the keyboard more useful is much more about changing the shape of the keyboard than remapping a bunch of keys. I totally agree. One big issue is that many work on laptops and cannot / won't carry an ergo keyboard around. The second best I found, besides having an ergo keyboard, is to use an actual japanese keyboard: laptops with japanese keyboard can easily be found / shipped. You can have a Mac laptop with a japanese keyboard, for example. And thanks to the narrow spacebar on japanese keyboards and the additional modifiers, you get more modifiers and they're easier to reach. So I use a japanese keyboard even though I'm not japanese.
  - csdvrx 3y ago
    > So I use a japanese keyboard even though I'm not japanese. Same!
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    I think not working on a laptop will give far greater ergonomic gains than any amount of keyboard remapping.
- packetlost 3y ago
  There's pretty active "ortholinear keyboard" community that has boards for basically any shape you really want. It's not a horrible way to get started with PCB design either. I have... too many keyboards now, most of which ortholinear. The most important thing for me being split, it helps immensely with wrist pain. I might find myself picking up a moonlander at some point here too, they look really nice and the high adjustability is pretty nice
hickelpickle 3y ago
I do the same thing in my own way with mouseless Caps + v,s,d,f,w,e,r,2,3,4,v -> 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Caps + jkl; arrows Caps + c -> shift caps + c -> ctrl caps + u,i,o,p -> pgup,home,end,pgdn Really increases productivity while coding and doing text manipulation, then gnome hotkeys for navigating desktops/windows/os.
eloycoto 3y ago
I moved to a Dygma keyboard early in the year, and I'm not looking back. The software to record macros, remap is just great, and I'm no longer suffering pain because of my position.
- noelwelsh 3y ago
  I hadn't seen this keyboard before, but it looks great. I like the idea of having a lot of keys on the thumb (8 vs the 4 on the Moonlander).
andromeduck 3y ago
So I actually have a setup like this using a JIS keyboard Moom and Karabiner. JIS keyboard in QWERTY mode with left thumb key (英数) mapped to cmd and right thumb key (かな) as a modal key that allows me to access a custom layer with: - esdf as arrow keys - w/r as backspace/delete - a/g as home/end I also map left cmd (英数) + esdf and w/r to behave like holding ctrl on windows. i.e. move and delete by word. Used to have another mode with phone-like numpad mapping for number entry but never used it enough. I then have Moom for window managment with shortcut set to ctrl + space and then the following hot keys: - 2/3 set up for 50:50 left right split - 1/4 set up for 30:70 split - w/e/r for 30:40:30 split - q/a for top/bottom left quarter - s/d/f for even 1/3 split - t/g for 40:60 top/bottom for vertical monitors This is good enough for 99% of my cases. manytricks.com/moom/
eitland 3y ago
I very much understand people are different and it seems for some people details like these are important. That said, with the work I do (mostly Java/Kotlin/C# backend and TypeScript frontend) and the way I do it (IDE), if typing speed ever becomes a bottleneck, something has gone horribly wrong somewhere. And since I have went through a number of times earlier in my life where I thought I had to learn vim, I think it can be good to try the other way around and ask everyone who doesn't love their vim setup but feel they have to: Why are you doing all this typing? If you update a variable name or a method signature and the rest of the code doesn't automatically update itself as far as possible, why is this? Why is your (hopefully) modern computer allowed to slack of while you have to think and work hard? Intelligent autocomplete, template insertions and automatic refactoring has been available for a long time now in mainstream languages. If you aren't using it, chances are you are wired really different than me or you are missing out. Edit: but if you love your vim setup, just continue. I love watching people who are good with vim. It is performance art. But I decided it isn't for me, and I personally think for a number of others too, if they had spent a fraction of the time they've spent tweaking their setups on actually learning a real IDE that could have made a bigger difference.
- gassiss 3y ago
  For me it was never about speed, it’s about comfort. I always unconsciously hated having to reach for the arrow keys all the way to the right of the keyboard to select words and move around.
  - marginalia_nu 3y ago
    A generation of Swedish programmers grew up on a cruel and unusual keyboard layout that's like ; is shift + , (1 step right of m) : is shift + . (2 steps right of m) - is where US layout has / _ is where US layout has ? shift + 6 = & shift + 7 = / shift + 8 = ( shift + 9 = ) right alt + 7 = { right alt + 8 = [ right alt + 9 = ] right alt + 0 = } right alt + - = \ I invite anyone to try and press right alt + 7 and right alt + 9 on their keyboard. To make things more awkward, it must be the right alt key, it doesn't work with the left. This torture is every time you make a curly brace with this layout.
fifnir 3y ago
Y'all don't map the Caps Lock to a secondary backspace? Do you never make mistakes? Do you have long fingers that can reach the original backspace without taking your hands off the home row? What do you do ? Foe me, having a backspace in place of the CapsLocks is absolutely irreplaceable
- camtarn 3y ago
  Heh, that's actually a pretty cool idea. But to answer your question, yep, long fingers: I can keep my forefinger on the F key while hitting Backspace with my pinky, and it's not that much of a stretch.
- ris58h 3y ago
  I have Escape there.
- ahaferburg 3y ago
  Caps+f = Backspace Caps+d = Delete
  - fifnir 3y ago
    That would be a good way to strengthen my pinkie, I would also do it the other way around, d to backspace (move the cursor left), f to delete(move the cursor right)
- eviks 3y ago
  I use right thumb Command and H as backspace and G as forward delete, better than a pinky Caps lock, especially for repetition
rho4 3y ago
Disclaimer: Windows/PC user. I chose the opposite of customization: I decided to train really hard on my standard country-specific 104/105-key keyboard layout. After 20 years I can blindly type every symbol, reach every key, grab the mouse and find my way back, thanks to those 2 notches on the letters 'F' and 'J' to position your index fingers. I bring such a wireless keyboard with me wherever I go - even on vacation - as I cannot work with notebook layouts or Mac keyboards. I'm confident that this keyboard type will be available to buy for a long time. Not having to take my eyes off the screen prevents a lot of mistakes.
- velosol 3y ago
  Those notches are about to turn 50! There's a lot of patents out there for various hand alignment helpers but the one that is closest to what everyone is used to is 3848723 [1] filed 23 July 1973. [1,pdf]: https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/3848723 https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa...
- eviks 3y ago
  But if cannot work without special hardware, why pick the worst?
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    How is a 104-key keyboard “special hardware”? And what makes it the “worst”?
    - eviks 3y ago
      > How is a 104-key keyboard “special hardware”? It's a required extra even when another laptop keyboard exists > what makes it the “worst”? Its awful unergonomic design, both on the hardware size and on the input side (especially for symbols the op mentions) So if you already must carry a special box, why not use a much better one that fixes both of these flaws?
- s6ro 3y ago
  Same for me, learned to properly touch type with my language layout and with the help of notches on 'f' and 'j' to help me find home row. Being able to keep my eyes on the screen while typing catches a lot of mistakes. When travelling I still like to bring the old trusty Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Keyboard 6000 [1] (phew :), even though the laptop is a Mac. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Bluetooth-Mobile-Keyboard-6000/dp/B002NP8XJ0 https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Bluetooth-Mobile-Keyboard-6...
xlii 3y ago
For years I’ve been using caps lock as a control/cmd key. Lately, when I was researching keyboard layouts, I stumbled upon Extend concept for Colemak [1]. I decided to try it out and, for me, it is a game changer. It is somewhat problematic to work through muscle memory, but I really think it’s worth it, especially since I skip between various editors a lot and adjusting each is a pain and this seems to solve it nicely. I know that for Extend there are multiple implementations for Windows, Linux and Mac. [1]: https://dreymar.colemak.org/layers-extend.html https://dreymar.colemak.org/layers-extend.html
- algas 3y ago
  Hey, another extend user! I literally can't imagine using a computer for a long time if it didn't have extend and colemak-dh. The friction with trying to make extend work on Linux is the main reason I'm stuck on Windows.
aljarry 3y ago
That's a pretty nice solution to a gripe I have with programming and typing. This year I've practiced touch typing for the first time in 10 years, and turns out it's such a chore to use touch-typing while programming! My right hand has to constantly reposition to use brackets, parenthesis, and all the other non-alphanumeric glyphs (!, -,=, *, &), and I constantly make typos due faulty muscle memory. And I'm not even starting on how hard it is on my right pinky. It almost feels like I'd need another touch marker for positioning my right hand to the right and one row up, to hit those brackets consistently. Without touch typing it's even worse, as I often wrongly position my hand after hitting special characters. Looks like modern programming languages were not created with humans writing on keyboards in mind. Also, anecdote from series of software developer interviews: all candidates made typos while live coding. And I don't think stress is the only reason :)
- goosedragons 3y ago
  Yeah, I can't use a regular keyboard for programming for very long anymore because symbols like {} just put too much strain on my right pinky. I use a kinesis advantage 2 and I've set those all up on the keypad layer on non-pinky keys and made the Delete key in the thumb cluster act as keypad shift. Works really well. I also put a JIS keyboard in my laptop and use one of the extra keys near space combined with the Linux program keyd to get effectively the same thing. Not quite as good but better than nothing.
- bbor 3y ago
  Hmm what’s the alternative to touch typing? Are you saying that you look at your keyboard every time you create a bracket, or am i forgetting some middle ground?
  - aljarry 3y ago
    I'm not looking at the keyboard, but I often move my right hand to click brackets or comma with index/middle finger. Takes muscle memory.
yarg 3y ago
A media control knob would be useful - push up and turn to fast-forward/rewind, down and turn for volume. Push left/right for previous/next. Also, what's with the f/j keyboard bumps - just put braille on every key. We'd all end up learning it without even trying to. As a programmer, I never really understood why the people who designed keyboards wouldn't have done so in a way that allowed for more common technical uses - why didn't they throw in a row of common mathematical symbols? That could also have impacted language design: i = Σ(a, b, c);
- gsliepen 3y ago
  How about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_syntax_and_symbols#APL2_keyboard_function_to_symbol_mapping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_syntax_and_symbols#APL2_ke...
- AlbertoGP 3y ago
  > As a programmer, I never really understood why the people who designed keyboards wouldn't have done so in a way that allowed for more common technical uses - why didn't they throw in a row of common mathematical symbols? Such keyboards were made in the 70/80s: http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_keyboards.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_keyboards.html The current standard keyboards come from a different evolutionary branch with a much more limited view of the possible uses for a computer.
el-duderino42 3y ago
As a piano player I don’t get all that obsession about the home row. I like (and possess) a good quality keyboard as the next guy, but that home row optimization makes no sense to me. Moving your arms is good for you, not bad! Look at a 88 key piano, people manage just fine to move their arms up and down a bit.
- bbor 3y ago
  Interesting take, I love it. That said - do people play piano for 6-8h a day? Or, knowing piano players and their … let’s say “determination”: after how many hours do your arms get tired?
  - occamrazor 3y ago
    Professional pianist practice hours every day. The main differences in posture, compared to an office chair, are: 1. A flat seat, without back 2. No wrist support.
    - bbor 3y ago
      You raise good points, and just showed me what my fallback career should be: Herman Miller salesperson targeting just professional musicians. Proper ergonomics is going to blow their minds! The people who want orchestras to look they did in 1700s Austria will just have to get over it
  - NineStarPoint 3y ago
    You have to gain a habit of holding your body and hands very specifically at a piano to not gain an rsi (which at the beginning does make you more tired, but like anything else you gain the needed muscles over time if you stick with it). Most people aren't that careful with their keyboard positioning and how they hold themselves while typing, so I do have to wonder if there's more to be done on the human side even with an unoptimized keyboard layout.
    - bbor 3y ago
hank_z 3y ago
It appears to me that this solution is only designed for macOS. Anyone knows any cross-platform solution? It would be very interesting to see how the same keybindings are implemented in Windows/Ubuntu/macOS.
IshKebab 3y ago
Why would you not use wasd for arrows? Bizarre.
- Izkata 3y ago
  hjkl is what vim uses for movement and is very old: https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys
jaywcarman 3y ago
I've found the Leopold FC660C to be the ultimate keyboard: - Topre silent switches - Compact layout _with_ arrow keys - There is a 3rd party (Hasu) replacement controller available to make it fully programmable I've found custom layouts at the software level are practical only if you use a single computer. My FC660C with the Hasu controller has my custom keymaps defined in the keyboard itself - usable on any computer I plug into!
xkfm 3y ago
If you are going to do all this, you might be better off getting a half of a steno keyboard, plover, and use https://github.com/Abkwreu/plover-left-hand-modifiers/blob/main/README.md https://github.com/Abkwreu/plover-left-hand-modifiers/blob/m.... Essentially, it allows every shortcut to be typed in two strokes/presses of keys, and using only the left hand. I have access to/can input nearly any shortcut, punctuation, modifier, reg key, numpad, number bar, arrow keys, etc all on one hand, and the system is very easy to learn. I don't care about shortcuts anymore as they are all nearly the same difficulty to input, and I never need to move my hand to do it. This takes only a few hours to learn at most. Hitting ctrl+t on a keyboard once is more wrist/finger movement than I normally see all day using this.
- hiatus 3y ago
  This is incredible and something I feel I've been waiting for for a while without knowing it. I transitioned to an alternative keyboard layout (colemak) several years ago in order to alleviate some RSI in my wrists. I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind. How long did it take you to learn this layout? Is there a sequential method to learning it, similar to using tarmak for learning colemak? A difficulty I sometimes face is using a regular qwerty layout—do you experience difficulty using a normal keyboard?
  - xkfm 3y ago
    I am/was a long-time colemak user, too. Most keyboard layouts I've found I learn about 1wpm per hour of dedicated typing practice. Qwerty is really bad, but I don't have trouble typing on it, no. I can switch between layouts easily if I have to. I can type one or two more layouts around 30-50wpm as well. I don't have any difficulty using a regular keyboard no, but typing individual letters kind of feels like a scam now. This system for the shortcuts is only a few hours. A lot of it is phonetic, and the numbers are in binary. Numpad is binary + *, and function keys are binary + r. So if you know binary and can hold one of three extra keys, you now have three ways to do numbers and the only difference is one key. Shift+num works for punctuation too, so you don't really need to know all the punctuation shortcuts. You just need to remember what they are on a regular keyboard and then its just sh+binary. The other things you'd need to know are how letters work (the ones not shown), and the shortcut combinations, but there are not that many of those, and they stack on top of each other visually. You'd just need a 10-key keyboard, or toggle plover on and off to use this dictionary. If you mean the rest of plover/steno, its a drastically higher learning curve and is basically a hobby for me. Just being able to fingerspell (type single letters) is learning another keyboard layout. But this combines several of my interests, so its not bad for me. Learning wise, I am a huge Supermemo fan, so I just use that to memorize/review the stuff that needs it beyond learning the theory (which I also review in Supermemo). Most people would use Anki or Mochi.
ramses0 3y ago
Take a deep look at this keyboard: https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Gaming-Freestyle-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B07STXYG5T/ https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Gaming-Freestyle-Mechanical-K... Or the non-rgb version: https://www.amazon.com/Freestyle-Ergonomic-Mechanical-Programmable-Adjustable/dp/B07CX9KQRQ https://www.amazon.com/Freestyle-Ergonomic-Mechanical-Progra... (but for $30 more, get the RGB one!) Pitifully inexpensive compared to the value and amount of time that you probably spend at the keyboard. With two profiles (eg: home / work / laptop), and a dedicated "macro-zone" that you can control the color of the backlights, it's literally a game-changer when not used for gaming purposes. I've got certain frequently used commands / passwords / passphrases programmed in those buttons (color coded: green for gpg passphrase, blue for ssh, red for login, etc), and it also supports a "layer" mode, so you could use that like a particular "shift key" for your app if you're like a video editor or streamer or something... red for pause, green for play, yellow for cut/paste, etc. All the buttons are 10000% remappable, it's basically like being able to 'hot-edit' your keyboard in real-time. Map/macro "A" to "Z" or "A" to "AAA" or "Z" to "F12" or whatever. Basically each button on your keyboard can kindof do whatever you want or need to at a time, and you can switch through the different "profiles" in order to change how the keyboard behaves depending on the app/computer/task that you're interacting with. If you're considering the RGB-version, please consider this a "glowing" review. ;-)
- Symbiote 3y ago
  > I've got certain frequently used commands / passwords / passphrases programmed in those buttons (color coded: green for gpg passphrase, blue for ssh, red for login, etc) Isn't that rather unwise? Your keyboard has become your key to everything. A password manager and/or USB security key and/or smartphone key vault are much better places to store secrets.
  - ramses0 3y ago
    Yeah, I should switch my one USB device that emits keyboard HID events for another USB device that also emits keyboard HID events but is smaller, easier to lose, and has less buttons. ;-) But yes, I agree with you in principle. In practice, locks are delaying devices and I'm much more worried about MITM or software/malware/supply-chain attacks than physical access attacks to my home office. "Passwords in the keyboard" require a physical presence to access rather than attacking the password-store or sniffing them from environment variables, temp-files, etc. Can't hack the keyboard unless I'm the one pushing they keys. After using this setup for a few years, it's been pretty convenient and not totally off the rails w.r.t. security best practices and recommendations: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_your.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_yo... 99% of my passwords are in vaults of some sort and are subsequently backstopped by 2FA/Authenticators. In the case of heightened paranoia (or if anyone other than my immediate family had any kind of access to my office), you could even do something like `1234-$MAGIC_KEYSTROKE-5678`, or `amazon-$MAGIC-2023-01-01` making it a bit more like length-increaser in the "bring-something, know-something, be-something" triangle of authentication. Buy one and try it! Buy one of these too, and report back if you think it can help your security posture: https://www.securedrive.com/product/secureusb-kp-encrypted-flash-drive https://www.securedrive.com/product/secureusb-kp-encrypted-f... ...I'd like to get one and try and figure out how to temp-mount my core password-store, then share/auth that between my various home computers.

144 points by quyleanh 3y ago

Somewhat reminiscent of iorz feixfuli <https://allhomosapienswelcome.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/iorx-feixfuli-m-j-yilz/ https://allhomosapienswelcome.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/iorx-...>. If you’re prepared to go to these lengths, you’re probably better off just learning the Emacs keybindings.

notbeuller 3y ago

Remapping the non-locking caps lock to control is a no brainer - and if you train yourself to use control-[ to get ESC, then you don’t have to leave the home row. (us keyboard - not sure how that works out in other locales, but caps lock should be eliminated everywhere. Or at least require turning two simultaneous icbm style launch keys to engage.)

tincholio 3y ago
I've been using the CAPS LOCK as both Control (on hold) and Escape (tap) for years now, and it's just wonderful. I even kept a similar setup when I built my Dactyl Manuform (one of the large thumb keys is both Control and Escape).
- grimborg 3y ago
  I did something similar, but I mapped it (on hold) to cmd + control + option + shift so it effectively becomes a new modifier key that I use to define shortcuts that will never clash with any existing shortcuts. I use it to launch / switch to specific apps, move windows, etc.
- lylejantzi3rd 3y ago
  If I were ever to design a keyboard with a thumb cluster, I would separate out ctrl and esc to separate keys. When typing quickly, I occasionally get an esc when I wanted ctrl. I've tried fiddling with the delays, but I've never gotten it to work quite right 100% of the time. I suspect my timing (how long I hold the caps lock button) varies depending on what I'm doing and how fast I'm typing.
- Woeps 3y ago
  Oh my.... I never thought of this. but then again, I use the side of my palm for holding control.
EsportToys 3y ago
With the TPMouse script, I implemented the activation shortcut as [LShift][RShift][C (trackball mode) / G (grid mode) / Q (quit)], which I felt had a nice balance between deliberateness and easy-to-reach (since you are using it with your hands on homerow). Though because some keyboards have key rollover issues with using both Shifts, [Capslock][<modekey>] is also allowed as an alternative activation shortcut. [0] https://github.com/EsportToys/TPMouse https://github.com/EsportToys/TPMouse
rgoulter 3y ago
> caps lock should be eliminated everywhere Caps Lock can be a useful feature. e.g. developers may want to type CONSTANTS_LIKE_THIS; and it's useful to be able to have a "shifted mode" which avoids the need for either alternating shift keys, or holding shift key with a pinky finger. I saw a feature "Caps Word", which automatically returns to the unshifted state as soon as a non-letter key (like space) was pressed. That seems a good idea. That said, yeah, Caps Lock isn't so useful that it's worth putting where it is on typical keyboards.
- orthoxerox 3y ago
  You still need to press Shift to type the underscores, unless the editor is smart enough to recognize you're in CONSTANT_TYPING_MODE.
  - rgoulter 3y ago
    With CapsLock? Yeah. Though, with using fancy keyboard-remapping software, then "dashes as underscores" can be done automatically. e.g. QMK does it with: https://docs.qmk.fm/#/feature_caps_word https://docs.qmk.fm/#/feature_caps_word
- bbor 3y ago
  Shoutout to vim - select the text then shift+U. Especially nice cause you can use multi select to do it in many places at once. I bet eMacs can’t do that ;)
  - ngai_aku 3y ago
    Careful now —- probably even easier with emacs! https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Case.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Ca... (Though I use emacs with vim keybindings — evil mode — so I do the same as you)
    - bbor 3y ago
      Very glad you responded kindly, I realized after I posted that that the sarcasm might not be clear. I feel like we’re two soldiers from some long forgotten war, finally shaking hands… ;)
l-p 3y ago
> caps lock should be eliminated everywhere Caps Lock is a necessary feature. I need my ÉÈÀÇ and I never could get a compose key working in all inputs, Caps Lock is the only reasonable alternative.
- teroshan 3y ago
  If you're in need of AZERTY-specific keys and you're on a QWERTY layout, take a look at https://github.com/qwerty-fr/qwerty-fr https://github.com/qwerty-fr/qwerty-fr. It's a strict superset of QWERTY, and it enables entering e.g. è and È with altgr+e and shift+altgr+e respectively.
- piaste 3y ago
  US-intl can do that just fine, though some people can't stand dead keys.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Whether dead keys are acceptable or not depends heavily on how frequent they are in the language. The Danish keyboard layout has ¨, ^, ´ and ` on dead keys — those are used in foreign names and a few loanwords — but Æ, Ø, Å are real keys. Having Å, Ø and Æ as dead keys would make as much sense as having V, K and J as dead keys in English.
    - piaste 3y ago
      I use it to type in Danish and Italian, as it happens (plus Swedish and French every now and then). Æ, Ø, Å aren't dead keys, they're available via AltGr + Z, L, and W respectively. However, Italian and French accented letters (as well as Swedish/German Ä/Ö) are available via either AltGr or dead keys - and I find myself almost always using dead keys, perhaps because they are more "logical" so I learned them faster. And of course, typing any kind of quote is a dead key in every language (quote followed by spacebar). By now, after so many years, dead keys are well in muscle memory so they feel barely any slower to type than regular two-key combos (like uppercase letters).
awesome_dude 3y ago
> caps lock should be eliminated everywhere BUT HOW CAN I ARGUE ON THE INTERNET WITHOUT IT????????
- bbor 3y ago
  I find it honestly hilarious that “don’t use caps lock for emphasis” is one of the otherwise very-abstract Hacker News Guidelines. A relic from the great flame wars of the past, I think…
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Put the shift key where it belongs: under your thumb.
- bjoli 3y ago
  I know it is a joke, but: In Linux it is easy make pressing both shifts into capslock.
destructionator 3y ago
Caps lock is great when you are typing one-handed.
ricardobeat 3y ago
Not a pianist, but I also don't get the obession with the home row. I can snipe the ESC key with my left ring finger faster than pressing that key combo. My wrist barely moves for that action, and I haven't had RSI yet after 20 years. I do play the guitar though so maybe that gives me some extra dexterity?
koprulusector 3y ago
I don’t use <CTRL> very often, if I think about it, maybe to open and close tabs in a browser or something. But I really liked “tap caps locks for <ESC>, hold for <CTRL>.”
vaccarium 3y ago
Caps Lock makes for a wonderful layout switcher key.
throw10920 3y ago
inoremap jk <esc> is even more optimal - it's extremely easy to type (in QWERTY, it's under the two strongest fingers you own aside from your thumbs), very fast, and minimally invasive (unless you frequently type the string "jk").

rcarmo 3y ago

This is fun and all but I draw the line at loading kernel extensions to get this sort of functionality.

nocsi 3y ago
That’s kinda how it is on Mac unless you want to implement it all via the accessibility api. Even if you go down that route, you’re still limited in window layout and monitoring. A lot of projects end up having to disable sip and hooking the window server in Dock. With these projects, the developer usually ends up abandoning it when they get tired of apple annually pushing out breaking changes. If you really want hyperkey and window management then I’d recommend bettertouchtool.
- rcarmo 3y ago
  I have those without bettertouch tool (with a combination of standard applications).

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

I wish I was a coding god such that the limiting factor was how quickly I could send commands via hotkeys or the interface or whatever. Hell, there are moments that I have to sit there carefully planning out in my mind the sequence of actions I'll need to take to accomplish some task. The rest of you out there, you're trying to shave 1400ms off your score by being able to use the homerow as if they were arrow keys? Fuck me.

tincholio 3y ago
It's not about speed, it's about ergonomics. Minimizing finger movement is a good thing.
TonyStr 3y ago
There are times when you think, plan and read code, and there are times when you just write. Getting fast and accurate at typing allows you to think more freely as you no longer have to think about the individual characters that make up the words you're typing
eviks 3y ago
If only there existed other factors besides speed that would make more convenient keyboard design better...
- rf15 3y ago
  Agreed. Also, if only there already existed (for more than half a century too) hard- and software specialised for typing speed that you could use instead of the general purpose system you have available on every computer... Truly a horrible underdeveloped world we live in, that we have to hack together our configs and code to this degree and having to watch as no wheel in existence can ever be as good as the one I just now built in five minutes. (terribly sorry for the bitter sarcasm, it's a pain point of mine)
000ooo000 3y ago
Do you ever go to sit down in front of the tele to watch a movie, and right as you get comfortable, you realise "Bollocks, I forgot to turn that light off"? So you get up, turn off the light, sit back down, and then remember "ah I left my nice warm beverage out of reach". If you are like me, each one of those moments is like a little mental kick in the groin, and that's kind of what it feels like when I reach for the mouse to move a window or click a button I can't just activate with the KB, or when I have to spam Ctrl+RArrow to move across a line. I like to minimise those mental kicks to my groin. I'm not so fussed on speed, I just don't like feeling inefficient in that way.

msravi 3y ago

Seems to be mac-only. Please just have the README state that someplace. Not apparent at all.

mritzmann 3y ago
Funny enough, in most cases it's the other way around.
Blaiz0r 3y ago
It's included in the Dependencies section which unfortunately is at the end
veidr 3y ago
On Linux, I use keyd[1] and while I understand that keyd itelf could never run on the Mac, I'd love something that could take my keyd conf and make it work (even approximately) on the Mac. [1]: https://github.com/rvaiya/keyd https://github.com/rvaiya/keyd
- rgoulter 3y ago
  Kmonad is cross platform. https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/ https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad/
- yewenjie 3y ago
  There is also https://github.com/k0kubun/xremap https://github.com/k0kubun/xremap for Linux

eviks 3y ago

> To activate, push the s and d keys simultaneously and hold them down That's a very inconvenient combo for such frequent an action. Why not some right thumb key instead?

lawn 3y ago
I do something similar and using the ring + middle finger is actually super comfortable (at least for me). I have it as a one-shot Ctrl (I can either hold or tap it to modify the next keypress). And yes, it's more comfortable than remapping caps-lock, although I don't use a standard keybord layout and using the weak pinky for such a common action is far from optimal (I use the 34 key Ferris).
- eviks 3y ago
  Agree re. Caps, it's indeed not a great key (pinky+lateral move), though could't get to a comfortable enough use for simultaneous key presses myself, and with a right Command available for the same functionality not sure it's worth training much as nothing beats thumbs in ease of use
andromeduck 3y ago
On macbooks at least left and right command keys cannot be detected simultaneously because it's a rare enough use case that they'd rather skimp the 1/4 cent on a diode. If you want modal thumb keys on a standard keyboard, JIS is pretty much your only option.
- eviks 3y ago
  what do you mean? just tested left+right command simultaneous key press with Karabiner on a macbook and it worked. Also I meant a single right command (or option) as a modifier key instead of S+D
  - andromeduck 3y ago
    What model? Didn't work on any wireless magic keyboards I had or retina mbp 2016 and 2018.

hexo 3y ago

I read more useful, I see taking bad example from archaic units. Stop that hjkl bs.

noelwelsh 3y ago

To me, making the keyboard more useful is much more about changing the shape of the keyboard than remapping a bunch of keys. An ergo shape and putting more functionality on the thumbs (see the Moonlander for an example, but there are a number of keyboards that do this) has done more to improve my keyboarding experience than twiddling what Control does.

TacticalCoder 3y ago
> To me, making the keyboard more useful is much more about changing the shape of the keyboard than remapping a bunch of keys. I totally agree. One big issue is that many work on laptops and cannot / won't carry an ergo keyboard around. The second best I found, besides having an ergo keyboard, is to use an actual japanese keyboard: laptops with japanese keyboard can easily be found / shipped. You can have a Mac laptop with a japanese keyboard, for example. And thanks to the narrow spacebar on japanese keyboards and the additional modifiers, you get more modifiers and they're easier to reach. So I use a japanese keyboard even though I'm not japanese.
- csdvrx 3y ago
  > So I use a japanese keyboard even though I'm not japanese. Same!
- Symbiote 3y ago
  I think not working on a laptop will give far greater ergonomic gains than any amount of keyboard remapping.
packetlost 3y ago
There's pretty active "ortholinear keyboard" community that has boards for basically any shape you really want. It's not a horrible way to get started with PCB design either. I have... too many keyboards now, most of which ortholinear. The most important thing for me being split, it helps immensely with wrist pain. I might find myself picking up a moonlander at some point here too, they look really nice and the high adjustability is pretty nice

hickelpickle 3y ago

I do the same thing in my own way with mouseless Caps + v,s,d,f,w,e,r,2,3,4,v -> 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Caps + jkl; arrows Caps + c -> shift caps + c -> ctrl caps + u,i,o,p -> pgup,home,end,pgdn Really increases productivity while coding and doing text manipulation, then gnome hotkeys for navigating desktops/windows/os.

eloycoto 3y ago

I moved to a Dygma keyboard early in the year, and I'm not looking back. The software to record macros, remap is just great, and I'm no longer suffering pain because of my position.

noelwelsh 3y ago
I hadn't seen this keyboard before, but it looks great. I like the idea of having a lot of keys on the thumb (8 vs the 4 on the Moonlander).

andromeduck 3y ago

So I actually have a setup like this using a JIS keyboard Moom and Karabiner. JIS keyboard in QWERTY mode with left thumb key (英数) mapped to cmd and right thumb key (かな) as a modal key that allows me to access a custom layer with: - esdf as arrow keys - w/r as backspace/delete - a/g as home/end I also map left cmd (英数) + esdf and w/r to behave like holding ctrl on windows. i.e. move and delete by word. Used to have another mode with phone-like numpad mapping for number entry but never used it enough. I then have Moom for window managment with shortcut set to ctrl + space and then the following hot keys: - 2/3 set up for 50:50 left right split - 1/4 set up for 30:70 split - w/e/r for 30:40:30 split - q/a for top/bottom left quarter - s/d/f for even 1/3 split - t/g for 40:60 top/bottom for vertical monitors This is good enough for 99% of my cases. manytricks.com/moom/

eitland 3y ago

I very much understand people are different and it seems for some people details like these are important. That said, with the work I do (mostly Java/Kotlin/C# backend and TypeScript frontend) and the way I do it (IDE), if typing speed ever becomes a bottleneck, something has gone horribly wrong somewhere. And since I have went through a number of times earlier in my life where I thought I had to learn vim, I think it can be good to try the other way around and ask everyone who doesn't love their vim setup but feel they have to: Why are you doing all this typing? If you update a variable name or a method signature and the rest of the code doesn't automatically update itself as far as possible, why is this? Why is your (hopefully) modern computer allowed to slack of while you have to think and work hard? Intelligent autocomplete, template insertions and automatic refactoring has been available for a long time now in mainstream languages. If you aren't using it, chances are you are wired really different than me or you are missing out. Edit: but if you love your vim setup, just continue. I love watching people who are good with vim. It is performance art. But I decided it isn't for me, and I personally think for a number of others too, if they had spent a fraction of the time they've spent tweaking their setups on actually learning a real IDE that could have made a bigger difference.

gassiss 3y ago
For me it was never about speed, it’s about comfort. I always unconsciously hated having to reach for the arrow keys all the way to the right of the keyboard to select words and move around.
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  A generation of Swedish programmers grew up on a cruel and unusual keyboard layout that's like ; is shift + , (1 step right of m) : is shift + . (2 steps right of m) - is where US layout has / _ is where US layout has ? shift + 6 = & shift + 7 = / shift + 8 = ( shift + 9 = ) right alt + 7 = { right alt + 8 = [ right alt + 9 = ] right alt + 0 = } right alt + - = \ I invite anyone to try and press right alt + 7 and right alt + 9 on their keyboard. To make things more awkward, it must be the right alt key, it doesn't work with the left. This torture is every time you make a curly brace with this layout.

fifnir 3y ago

Y'all don't map the Caps Lock to a secondary backspace? Do you never make mistakes? Do you have long fingers that can reach the original backspace without taking your hands off the home row? What do you do ? Foe me, having a backspace in place of the CapsLocks is absolutely irreplaceable

camtarn 3y ago
Heh, that's actually a pretty cool idea. But to answer your question, yep, long fingers: I can keep my forefinger on the F key while hitting Backspace with my pinky, and it's not that much of a stretch.
ris58h 3y ago
I have Escape there.
ahaferburg 3y ago
Caps+f = Backspace Caps+d = Delete
- fifnir 3y ago
  That would be a good way to strengthen my pinkie, I would also do it the other way around, d to backspace (move the cursor left), f to delete(move the cursor right)
eviks 3y ago
I use right thumb Command and H as backspace and G as forward delete, better than a pinky Caps lock, especially for repetition

rho4 3y ago

Disclaimer: Windows/PC user. I chose the opposite of customization: I decided to train really hard on my standard country-specific 104/105-key keyboard layout. After 20 years I can blindly type every symbol, reach every key, grab the mouse and find my way back, thanks to those 2 notches on the letters 'F' and 'J' to position your index fingers. I bring such a wireless keyboard with me wherever I go - even on vacation - as I cannot work with notebook layouts or Mac keyboards. I'm confident that this keyboard type will be available to buy for a long time. Not having to take my eyes off the screen prevents a lot of mistakes.

velosol 3y ago
Those notches are about to turn 50! There's a lot of patents out there for various hand alignment helpers but the one that is closest to what everyone is used to is 3848723 [1] filed 23 July 1973. [1,pdf]: https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/3848723 https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa...
eviks 3y ago
But if cannot work without special hardware, why pick the worst?
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  How is a 104-key keyboard “special hardware”? And what makes it the “worst”?
  - eviks 3y ago
    > How is a 104-key keyboard “special hardware”? It's a required extra even when another laptop keyboard exists > what makes it the “worst”? Its awful unergonomic design, both on the hardware size and on the input side (especially for symbols the op mentions) So if you already must carry a special box, why not use a much better one that fixes both of these flaws?
s6ro 3y ago
Same for me, learned to properly touch type with my language layout and with the help of notches on 'f' and 'j' to help me find home row. Being able to keep my eyes on the screen while typing catches a lot of mistakes. When travelling I still like to bring the old trusty Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Keyboard 6000 [1] (phew :), even though the laptop is a Mac. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Bluetooth-Mobile-Keyboard-6000/dp/B002NP8XJ0 https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Bluetooth-Mobile-Keyboard-6...

xlii 3y ago

For years I’ve been using caps lock as a control/cmd key. Lately, when I was researching keyboard layouts, I stumbled upon Extend concept for Colemak [1]. I decided to try it out and, for me, it is a game changer. It is somewhat problematic to work through muscle memory, but I really think it’s worth it, especially since I skip between various editors a lot and adjusting each is a pain and this seems to solve it nicely. I know that for Extend there are multiple implementations for Windows, Linux and Mac. [1]: https://dreymar.colemak.org/layers-extend.html https://dreymar.colemak.org/layers-extend.html

algas 3y ago
Hey, another extend user! I literally can't imagine using a computer for a long time if it didn't have extend and colemak-dh. The friction with trying to make extend work on Linux is the main reason I'm stuck on Windows.

aljarry 3y ago

That's a pretty nice solution to a gripe I have with programming and typing. This year I've practiced touch typing for the first time in 10 years, and turns out it's such a chore to use touch-typing while programming! My right hand has to constantly reposition to use brackets, parenthesis, and all the other non-alphanumeric glyphs (!, -,=, *, &), and I constantly make typos due faulty muscle memory. And I'm not even starting on how hard it is on my right pinky. It almost feels like I'd need another touch marker for positioning my right hand to the right and one row up, to hit those brackets consistently. Without touch typing it's even worse, as I often wrongly position my hand after hitting special characters. Looks like modern programming languages were not created with humans writing on keyboards in mind. Also, anecdote from series of software developer interviews: all candidates made typos while live coding. And I don't think stress is the only reason :)

goosedragons 3y ago
Yeah, I can't use a regular keyboard for programming for very long anymore because symbols like {} just put too much strain on my right pinky. I use a kinesis advantage 2 and I've set those all up on the keypad layer on non-pinky keys and made the Delete key in the thumb cluster act as keypad shift. Works really well. I also put a JIS keyboard in my laptop and use one of the extra keys near space combined with the Linux program keyd to get effectively the same thing. Not quite as good but better than nothing.
bbor 3y ago
Hmm what’s the alternative to touch typing? Are you saying that you look at your keyboard every time you create a bracket, or am i forgetting some middle ground?
- aljarry 3y ago
  I'm not looking at the keyboard, but I often move my right hand to click brackets or comma with index/middle finger. Takes muscle memory.

yarg 3y ago

A media control knob would be useful - push up and turn to fast-forward/rewind, down and turn for volume. Push left/right for previous/next. Also, what's with the f/j keyboard bumps - just put braille on every key. We'd all end up learning it without even trying to. As a programmer, I never really understood why the people who designed keyboards wouldn't have done so in a way that allowed for more common technical uses - why didn't they throw in a row of common mathematical symbols? That could also have impacted language design: i = Σ(a, b, c);

gsliepen 3y ago
How about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_syntax_and_symbols#APL2_keyboard_function_to_symbol_mapping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_syntax_and_symbols#APL2_ke...
AlbertoGP 3y ago
> As a programmer, I never really understood why the people who designed keyboards wouldn't have done so in a way that allowed for more common technical uses - why didn't they throw in a row of common mathematical symbols? Such keyboards were made in the 70/80s: http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_keyboards.html http://xahlee.info/kbd/lisp_keyboards.html The current standard keyboards come from a different evolutionary branch with a much more limited view of the possible uses for a computer.

el-duderino42 3y ago

As a piano player I don’t get all that obsession about the home row. I like (and possess) a good quality keyboard as the next guy, but that home row optimization makes no sense to me. Moving your arms is good for you, not bad! Look at a 88 key piano, people manage just fine to move their arms up and down a bit.

bbor 3y ago
Interesting take, I love it. That said - do people play piano for 6-8h a day? Or, knowing piano players and their … let’s say “determination”: after how many hours do your arms get tired?
- occamrazor 3y ago
  Professional pianist practice hours every day. The main differences in posture, compared to an office chair, are: 1. A flat seat, without back 2. No wrist support.
  - bbor 3y ago
    You raise good points, and just showed me what my fallback career should be: Herman Miller salesperson targeting just professional musicians. Proper ergonomics is going to blow their minds! The people who want orchestras to look they did in 1700s Austria will just have to get over it
- NineStarPoint 3y ago
  You have to gain a habit of holding your body and hands very specifically at a piano to not gain an rsi (which at the beginning does make you more tired, but like anything else you gain the needed muscles over time if you stick with it). Most people aren't that careful with their keyboard positioning and how they hold themselves while typing, so I do have to wonder if there's more to be done on the human side even with an unoptimized keyboard layout.
  - bbor 3y ago

hank_z 3y ago

It appears to me that this solution is only designed for macOS. Anyone knows any cross-platform solution? It would be very interesting to see how the same keybindings are implemented in Windows/Ubuntu/macOS.

IshKebab 3y ago

Why would you not use wasd for arrows? Bizarre.

Izkata 3y ago
hjkl is what vim uses for movement and is very old: https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys

jaywcarman 3y ago

I've found the Leopold FC660C to be the ultimate keyboard: - Topre silent switches - Compact layout _with_ arrow keys - There is a 3rd party (Hasu) replacement controller available to make it fully programmable I've found custom layouts at the software level are practical only if you use a single computer. My FC660C with the Hasu controller has my custom keymaps defined in the keyboard itself - usable on any computer I plug into!

xkfm 3y ago

If you are going to do all this, you might be better off getting a half of a steno keyboard, plover, and use https://github.com/Abkwreu/plover-left-hand-modifiers/blob/main/README.md https://github.com/Abkwreu/plover-left-hand-modifiers/blob/m.... Essentially, it allows every shortcut to be typed in two strokes/presses of keys, and using only the left hand. I have access to/can input nearly any shortcut, punctuation, modifier, reg key, numpad, number bar, arrow keys, etc all on one hand, and the system is very easy to learn. I don't care about shortcuts anymore as they are all nearly the same difficulty to input, and I never need to move my hand to do it. This takes only a few hours to learn at most. Hitting ctrl+t on a keyboard once is more wrist/finger movement than I normally see all day using this.

hiatus 3y ago
This is incredible and something I feel I've been waiting for for a while without knowing it. I transitioned to an alternative keyboard layout (colemak) several years ago in order to alleviate some RSI in my wrists. I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind. How long did it take you to learn this layout? Is there a sequential method to learning it, similar to using tarmak for learning colemak? A difficulty I sometimes face is using a regular qwerty layout—do you experience difficulty using a normal keyboard?
- xkfm 3y ago
  I am/was a long-time colemak user, too. Most keyboard layouts I've found I learn about 1wpm per hour of dedicated typing practice. Qwerty is really bad, but I don't have trouble typing on it, no. I can switch between layouts easily if I have to. I can type one or two more layouts around 30-50wpm as well. I don't have any difficulty using a regular keyboard no, but typing individual letters kind of feels like a scam now. This system for the shortcuts is only a few hours. A lot of it is phonetic, and the numbers are in binary. Numpad is binary + *, and function keys are binary + r. So if you know binary and can hold one of three extra keys, you now have three ways to do numbers and the only difference is one key. Shift+num works for punctuation too, so you don't really need to know all the punctuation shortcuts. You just need to remember what they are on a regular keyboard and then its just sh+binary. The other things you'd need to know are how letters work (the ones not shown), and the shortcut combinations, but there are not that many of those, and they stack on top of each other visually. You'd just need a 10-key keyboard, or toggle plover on and off to use this dictionary. If you mean the rest of plover/steno, its a drastically higher learning curve and is basically a hobby for me. Just being able to fingerspell (type single letters) is learning another keyboard layout. But this combines several of my interests, so its not bad for me. Learning wise, I am a huge Supermemo fan, so I just use that to memorize/review the stuff that needs it beyond learning the theory (which I also review in Supermemo). Most people would use Anki or Mochi.

ramses0 3y ago

Take a deep look at this keyboard: https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Gaming-Freestyle-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B07STXYG5T/ https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Gaming-Freestyle-Mechanical-K... Or the non-rgb version: https://www.amazon.com/Freestyle-Ergonomic-Mechanical-Programmable-Adjustable/dp/B07CX9KQRQ https://www.amazon.com/Freestyle-Ergonomic-Mechanical-Progra... (but for $30 more, get the RGB one!) Pitifully inexpensive compared to the value and amount of time that you probably spend at the keyboard. With two profiles (eg: home / work / laptop), and a dedicated "macro-zone" that you can control the color of the backlights, it's literally a game-changer when not used for gaming purposes. I've got certain frequently used commands / passwords / passphrases programmed in those buttons (color coded: green for gpg passphrase, blue for ssh, red for login, etc), and it also supports a "layer" mode, so you could use that like a particular "shift key" for your app if you're like a video editor or streamer or something... red for pause, green for play, yellow for cut/paste, etc. All the buttons are 10000% remappable, it's basically like being able to 'hot-edit' your keyboard in real-time. Map/macro "A" to "Z" or "A" to "AAA" or "Z" to "F12" or whatever. Basically each button on your keyboard can kindof do whatever you want or need to at a time, and you can switch through the different "profiles" in order to change how the keyboard behaves depending on the app/computer/task that you're interacting with. If you're considering the RGB-version, please consider this a "glowing" review. ;-)

Symbiote 3y ago
> I've got certain frequently used commands / passwords / passphrases programmed in those buttons (color coded: green for gpg passphrase, blue for ssh, red for login, etc) Isn't that rather unwise? Your keyboard has become your key to everything. A password manager and/or USB security key and/or smartphone key vault are much better places to store secrets.
- ramses0 3y ago
  Yeah, I should switch my one USB device that emits keyboard HID events for another USB device that also emits keyboard HID events but is smaller, easier to lose, and has less buttons. ;-) But yes, I agree with you in principle. In practice, locks are delaying devices and I'm much more worried about MITM or software/malware/supply-chain attacks than physical access attacks to my home office. "Passwords in the keyboard" require a physical presence to access rather than attacking the password-store or sniffing them from environment variables, temp-files, etc. Can't hack the keyboard unless I'm the one pushing they keys. After using this setup for a few years, it's been pretty convenient and not totally off the rails w.r.t. security best practices and recommendations: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_your.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/06/write_down_yo... 99% of my passwords are in vaults of some sort and are subsequently backstopped by 2FA/Authenticators. In the case of heightened paranoia (or if anyone other than my immediate family had any kind of access to my office), you could even do something like `1234-$MAGIC_KEYSTROKE-5678`, or `amazon-$MAGIC-2023-01-01` making it a bit more like length-increaser in the "bring-something, know-something, be-something" triangle of authentication. Buy one and try it! Buy one of these too, and report back if you think it can help your security posture: https://www.securedrive.com/product/secureusb-kp-encrypted-flash-drive https://www.securedrive.com/product/secureusb-kp-encrypted-f... ...I'd like to get one and try and figure out how to temp-mount my core password-store, then share/auth that between my various home computers.