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I deleted my 8yo account. It was right after someone downvoted me because pointed out something that broke with their opinion. That kind of summed up my view R

I deleted my 8yo account. It was right after someone downvoted me because pointed out something that broke with their opinion. That kind of summed up my view Reddit. Groupthink circle jerks. Why was I part of any of that??

housemusicfan 3y ago
> It was right after someone downvoted me because pointed out something that broke with their opinion. It took you 8 years to realize that's how that place operates? Hell, that describes the culture on HN pretty well. Freewheeling downvoting was a flawed idea from the beginning. 20 years later it turns out Slashdot had the right model for moderation.
- tester457 3y ago
  I've never used Slashdot, how is the moderation model superior?
  - function_seven 3y ago
    Instead of plain up- and downvotes, you rated a given comment with one of several positives (insightful, interesting, funny, informative) or negatives (troll, flamebait, offtopic) The best part was you could set your personal filters to exclude “funny” comments, or boost “offtopic” ones if you want. With thresholds! So the funniest stuff could still break through, but you didn’t have to wade through a million pun posts to find the serious comments. They also have a metamoderation system where others’ moderation choices are shown to you and you agree or disagree. Never seen another site like it. Kinda hope /. makes a resurgence.
    - wmoser 3y ago
      If I remember correctly, you also couldn’t moderate on posts that you had commented on so it prevented using downvoting as extra signaling that others agreed with you in an argument. Also, you got 5 moderation points sort of randomly, you didn’t have the option to always be moderating. I browse Slashdot occasionally but once I found HN, the topics and discourse interested me here more, haven’t really spent much time there in years.
      - function_seven 3y ago
        Thanks. I forgot about the 5-at-a-time thing! But now I remember the tiny delight when I was entrusted with that little clutch of power. I “spent” them wisely. And this is another thing I think made that mod system good. Only so many points available.
        cobbaut 3y ago
        It used to be 10-at-a-time. And you could game the system by moderating 'underrated' or 'overrated' which were never metamoderated iirc.
    - Scarblac 3y ago
      And it would show the sum of the +1 and -1 votes, and the most applied label, e.g. (+3, Informative). I have to say the most enjoyable comments were often those that got to +5 but with a negative label, like (+5, Flamebait).
    - thefourthchime 3y ago
      Man, I haven't been on Slashdot in like 15 years. My username has four characters. To give you an idea how long ago that was. You're right, it was a pretty good way to do moderation. As in everything with software, what old is new, right?
      - Corrado 3y ago
        I only have a 5 digit Slashdot ID, but I remember the early days. I really, really liked /. back in the day. I don't remember what happened to drive me away but going back now the content seems to be very similar to what's on the HN front page now. However, there's something about the look and feel that is off-putting to me. Maybe its the fonts or the stuck in the 00's design.
    - Rebelgecko 3y ago
      IIRC, they also limit the base scores from - 1 to +5, while only giving people a limited number of points to distribute. It helped avoid what you see on reddit sometimes where a comment gets piled on for no reason.
    - jasonjayr 3y ago
      Also -- people would randomly be given moderation points, and you only had so many at a time. I think people's chance of getting moderation points was weighted by how 'good' of a community member you were (account age, participation in moderation, metamoderation 'agreement') Soylentnews also exists based on the slashdot source, and uses the same/similar moderation.
- basch 3y ago
  It’s crazy that slashdots moderation and meta moderation didn’t spring up elsewhere, but it was probably too complicated for what most people want out of a voting system.
- Tozen 3y ago
  I wouldn't say HN is as bad as reddit, with the mob mentality downvoting. At least on HN, some people show signs of taking a moment to think.
- thefourthchime 3y ago
  Of course, I realized that for years, however, and now I’m realizing maybe I should quit hackernews as well
mr_gibbins 3y ago
I've always felt the downvote option was a colossal mistake and just allowed controversial or unpopular points of view to disappear, strengthening the filter effect for everything else. I mean even 4chan doesn't have downvote functionality, if people disagree with you they'll just call you a f* or n* which, while nasty, doesn't actually change visibility of your post, plus only the admins can ban you or delete a post, not jumped-up mods, and frankly you'd have to be pretty extreme on there to earn that.
- basq 3y ago
  But 4chan is also a complete cesspit. Like any place that adopts "free speech absolutist" attitudes. Reddit's heyday is long passed, but at least it is still very useful for grassroots information amalgamation. If you've ever had to google some issue, typing reddit into the query will land you some posts with discussion in them. Good luck finding that on 4chan.
  - throwawaymobule 3y ago
    there's a few semi-shady things that 4chan does better than anywhere else though. like finding pdfs for rpgs. not to say it's not a pit, cess or otherwise, but there's a good few nuggets swimming around in there.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    It is a cesspit but for broadening perspectives it is much much better than reddit, even with less structure of discussions and worse discoverability. "free speech absolutism" wasn't ever a huge problem, on the contrary, the suggested alternatives always seem to end up worse. You have to suffer through idiotic opinions if you expose yourself to new ideas. There is never any alternative to that and there is no magic moderator that can make this decision in your stead. It isn't any more complicated than that really.
    - _cenw 3y ago
      > You have to suffer through idiotic opinions if you expose yourself to new ideas. There is never any alternative to that and there is no magic moderator that can make this decision in your stead. It isn't any more complicated than that really. The main issue with that is that it assumes anyone on the internet is arguing anything in good faith. Boosting checkmarks has turned twitter to nearly unusable to actually unusable, because the signal to noise ratio on the replies from checkmarks tend to be somewhere on the factually provable incorrect to outright slurs spectrum. Expecting any better on 4chan of all places will be a a fruitless endeavor more akin to self-harm. If you don't want to wade through shit, maybe don't have your discussions in a sewer. HN, while not perfect, will often be a place that cultivates some rare insight.
ldehaan 3y ago
[dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
basch 3y ago
We are experiencing almost a reverse Library of Alexandria of House of Wisdom moment. The people are Boston Tea Partying their own contributions, destroying the value by using scripts to delete all their comments. As sad is it is to see the platform go to shit over time, I feel a poetic peace along with my bittersweet sadness to see such a loss of information, all at once. In some sense there is no undoing this week, even if the blackout ends. As they say in The Worlds End, “for the greater good.”
fennecfoxy 3y ago
>Groupthink circle jerks Hate to say it, but fleshy meatbag humans love this stuff on and off line. Our species is evolutionarily motivated to group up. It's completely undeniable, societal progress regardless. We still do it all day every day, some worse than others.

housemusicfan 3y ago

> It was right after someone downvoted me because pointed out something that broke with their opinion. It took you 8 years to realize that's how that place operates? Hell, that describes the culture on HN pretty well. Freewheeling downvoting was a flawed idea from the beginning. 20 years later it turns out Slashdot had the right model for moderation.

tester457 3y ago
I've never used Slashdot, how is the moderation model superior?
- function_seven 3y ago
  Instead of plain up- and downvotes, you rated a given comment with one of several positives (insightful, interesting, funny, informative) or negatives (troll, flamebait, offtopic) The best part was you could set your personal filters to exclude “funny” comments, or boost “offtopic” ones if you want. With thresholds! So the funniest stuff could still break through, but you didn’t have to wade through a million pun posts to find the serious comments. They also have a metamoderation system where others’ moderation choices are shown to you and you agree or disagree. Never seen another site like it. Kinda hope /. makes a resurgence.
  - wmoser 3y ago
    If I remember correctly, you also couldn’t moderate on posts that you had commented on so it prevented using downvoting as extra signaling that others agreed with you in an argument. Also, you got 5 moderation points sort of randomly, you didn’t have the option to always be moderating. I browse Slashdot occasionally but once I found HN, the topics and discourse interested me here more, haven’t really spent much time there in years.
    - function_seven 3y ago
      Thanks. I forgot about the 5-at-a-time thing! But now I remember the tiny delight when I was entrusted with that little clutch of power. I “spent” them wisely. And this is another thing I think made that mod system good. Only so many points available.
      - cobbaut 3y ago
        It used to be 10-at-a-time. And you could game the system by moderating 'underrated' or 'overrated' which were never metamoderated iirc.
  - Scarblac 3y ago
    And it would show the sum of the +1 and -1 votes, and the most applied label, e.g. (+3, Informative). I have to say the most enjoyable comments were often those that got to +5 but with a negative label, like (+5, Flamebait).
  - thefourthchime 3y ago
    Man, I haven't been on Slashdot in like 15 years. My username has four characters. To give you an idea how long ago that was. You're right, it was a pretty good way to do moderation. As in everything with software, what old is new, right?
    - Corrado 3y ago
      I only have a 5 digit Slashdot ID, but I remember the early days. I really, really liked /. back in the day. I don't remember what happened to drive me away but going back now the content seems to be very similar to what's on the HN front page now. However, there's something about the look and feel that is off-putting to me. Maybe its the fonts or the stuck in the 00's design.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    IIRC, they also limit the base scores from - 1 to +5, while only giving people a limited number of points to distribute. It helped avoid what you see on reddit sometimes where a comment gets piled on for no reason.
  - jasonjayr 3y ago
    Also -- people would randomly be given moderation points, and you only had so many at a time. I think people's chance of getting moderation points was weighted by how 'good' of a community member you were (account age, participation in moderation, metamoderation 'agreement') Soylentnews also exists based on the slashdot source, and uses the same/similar moderation.
basch 3y ago
It’s crazy that slashdots moderation and meta moderation didn’t spring up elsewhere, but it was probably too complicated for what most people want out of a voting system.
Tozen 3y ago
I wouldn't say HN is as bad as reddit, with the mob mentality downvoting. At least on HN, some people show signs of taking a moment to think.
thefourthchime 3y ago
Of course, I realized that for years, however, and now I’m realizing maybe I should quit hackernews as well

mr_gibbins 3y ago

I've always felt the downvote option was a colossal mistake and just allowed controversial or unpopular points of view to disappear, strengthening the filter effect for everything else. I mean even 4chan doesn't have downvote functionality, if people disagree with you they'll just call you a f* or n* which, while nasty, doesn't actually change visibility of your post, plus only the admins can ban you or delete a post, not jumped-up mods, and frankly you'd have to be pretty extreme on there to earn that.

basq 3y ago
But 4chan is also a complete cesspit. Like any place that adopts "free speech absolutist" attitudes. Reddit's heyday is long passed, but at least it is still very useful for grassroots information amalgamation. If you've ever had to google some issue, typing reddit into the query will land you some posts with discussion in them. Good luck finding that on 4chan.
- throwawaymobule 3y ago
  there's a few semi-shady things that 4chan does better than anywhere else though. like finding pdfs for rpgs. not to say it's not a pit, cess or otherwise, but there's a good few nuggets swimming around in there.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  It is a cesspit but for broadening perspectives it is much much better than reddit, even with less structure of discussions and worse discoverability. "free speech absolutism" wasn't ever a huge problem, on the contrary, the suggested alternatives always seem to end up worse. You have to suffer through idiotic opinions if you expose yourself to new ideas. There is never any alternative to that and there is no magic moderator that can make this decision in your stead. It isn't any more complicated than that really.
  - _cenw 3y ago
    > You have to suffer through idiotic opinions if you expose yourself to new ideas. There is never any alternative to that and there is no magic moderator that can make this decision in your stead. It isn't any more complicated than that really. The main issue with that is that it assumes anyone on the internet is arguing anything in good faith. Boosting checkmarks has turned twitter to nearly unusable to actually unusable, because the signal to noise ratio on the replies from checkmarks tend to be somewhere on the factually provable incorrect to outright slurs spectrum. Expecting any better on 4chan of all places will be a a fruitless endeavor more akin to self-harm. If you don't want to wade through shit, maybe don't have your discussions in a sewer. HN, while not perfect, will often be a place that cultivates some rare insight.

ldehaan 3y ago

[dead]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

basch 3y ago

We are experiencing almost a reverse Library of Alexandria of House of Wisdom moment. The people are Boston Tea Partying their own contributions, destroying the value by using scripts to delete all their comments. As sad is it is to see the platform go to shit over time, I feel a poetic peace along with my bittersweet sadness to see such a loss of information, all at once. In some sense there is no undoing this week, even if the blackout ends. As they say in The Worlds End, “for the greater good.”

fennecfoxy 3y ago

>Groupthink circle jerks Hate to say it, but fleshy meatbag humans love this stuff on and off line. Our species is evolutionarily motivated to group up. It's completely undeniable, societal progress regardless. We still do it all day every day, some worse than others.