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Before the blackout, many subreddits hinted at extending the blackout indefinitely if Reddit is being adversarial. This seems adversarial.

jtode 3y ago
Seems like someone determined to finish the task his masters sent him to do.
kibwen 3y ago
Extending the blackout indefinitely has now become a coordinated action via /r/ModCoord (which is the also the source of the list of blacked out subreddits that people are using), with an optional "solidarity mode" that involves blacking out one day a week in perpetuity (which they're calling "Touch Grass Tuesdays"): https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinite_blackout_next_steps_polling_your/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinit...
- mr_00ff00 3y ago
  The irony of organizing a blackout to teach Reddit a lesson while organizing it on a subreddit.
  - mrits 3y ago
    It isn't irony at all. Reddit gets almost zero revenue from the sub organizing it. People aren't protesting Reddit in general, but a policy of reddit.
    - mr_00ff00 3y ago
      It’s not about revenue. As people have mentioned already, the CEO said the blackout has had almost no revenue impact. it’s funny to create a protest and hoping for change by showing Reddit that the community can walk away…and then using reddit to organize it. You are basically showing you can’t think of any good alternatives to organizing or chatting with people. So you will continue to use Reddit, even during a protest specifically about not using reddit. “we will leave you if you treat us badly” and then also “I have to use your product cause I can’t find anything else.” Doesn’t work well together.
      - kibwen 3y ago
        ...Except that /r/ModCoord does have other venues, like the Discord linked in the sidebar. They mirror announcements to Reddit because that's the only place that's guaranteed to reach everyone involved, who are on Reddit by definition.
        mr_00ff00 3y ago
        Sure, but shouldn’t they all not be on Reddit by definition?
        George83728 3y ago
        If they don't need reddit, then they should stop using it to demonstrate that point. > "I'm not addicted, I can quit anytime I want." > "Okay then, prove it and quit today." > "....No."
        FemmeAndroid 3y ago
        > If they don't need reddit, then they should stop using it to demonstrate that point. Why wouldn’t you use every available, easy to use mechanism to broadcast a message? Clearly the actual organizing is happening on a variety of channels including Discord.
        mr_00ff00 3y ago
        Because the message is “don’t use Reddit” Use every available and easy mechanism, unless your protest is about one of them.
        George83728 3y ago
        > Why wouldn’t you use every available, easy to use mechanism to broadcast a message? Because continuing to use reddit broadcasts a different sort of message: they're a bunch of addicts who will come crawling back. > Clearly the actual organizing is happening on a variety of channels including Discord. All the more reason for them to quit using reddit...
    - cpeterso 3y ago
      The irony is that there is no viable alternative platform for the mods to organize on, demonstrating that Reddit has the market position to set high prices if they want to.
      - mrits 3y ago
        It doesn't take an intellectual giant to realize they are organizing on Discord.
- smsm42 3y ago
  This sounds like finding ways to fold without it looking like they folded. The question is simple - can they live with the new situation or not? If they are willing to, then protesting on Tuesdays is not going to do much. If they are not, then they are not on every day, not only Tuesday. I don't endorse either side here, but looking realistically, it's either win - Reddit changes their behavior to more acceptable - or loss - Reddit doesn't. Solidarity Tuesdays are just a form of the loss where people still pretend it's not lost yet.
  - kibwen 3y ago
    For reference, 93% of the responses there so far are for indefinite blackout, and only 7% are for weekly blackouts.
  - wlonkly 3y ago
    There are a handful of subreddits (for example, one for recovering alcoholics, one for legal advice) that have decided that their value to the community is higher than the value of staying closed. So I think if it does get extended then the eventual outcome is that "general" subreddits will remain closed, and those dealing with, for lack of a better phrase, vulnerable communities, will show solidarity with weekly blackout days instead.
- jmclnx 3y ago
  Funny you linked old.reddit, I find the new version unusable via firefox (I do not do mobile).
EA-3167 3y ago
From Reddit's perspective overall this is a terrible idea, but from Huffman's perspective it's purely rational. If he has to walk this back it's probably not compatible with his continued tenure after all, the question of why this was done so hastily and rudely would inevitably undermine his leadership. If he just barrels ahead though, and prays that the addictions of mods and users are greater than their pride/desire to have a functional site, then he can possibly survive. It's not as though there's a third choice, he can't realistically get rid of the mods and replace them, then expect that to not blow up in his face. He can't walk this back, and he's doubled down on libeling the dev of Apollo for example. "Stay the course and hope everyone just gets over it" is his best option, having already sunk into the quicksand. IMO of course.
- seanosaur 3y ago
  > he can't realistically get rid of the mods and replace them, then expect that to not blow up in his face I'm not so sure about that. I would be very surprised if there was a high % of redditors that know / care about the mods or mod system. This could be the cynic in me but I bet he could eject all the mods tomorrow, replace them with more faceless accounts, and the vast majority of reddit's userbase would not see a difference. Those that have been around the site for a while would notice and feel the change and not be happy about it, but we're most likely talking about a very small single-digit % of the userbase.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    I don't think the problem with ditching the existing mods for new ones has much to do with how users would perceive the shift. You have to ask how the hell Reddit would vet that number of replacements in any way, how they'd find the required number of able replacements, and not just people who would (through incompetence or malice) run things into the ground. That's doubly true for the mega-subs which genuinely require a LOT of constant moderation, specialized automated tools, and so on. That doesn't seem like a feasible path to me, and I think if it was remotely possible it would have already happened. The only way it COULD work is to get rid of the volunteer mod system and replace it with paid mods... and I don't think Reddit has the funds for that.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Krasnol 3y ago
/r/de, THE German sub has extended till Sunday.
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
One of the fun things about reddit is that if mods decide to extend it indefinitely, users are free to create their own subreddits and move their conversations there. Any mod who thinks they're ultimately important in the grand scheme of things is deluding themselves.
- adamc 3y ago
  I don't think that's true at all. Users can certainly create new subreddits, but new, compelling subreddits usually require... committed mods. Where are they going to come from, and why wouldn't they also care about these changes that make modding much worse? It's essentially an empty threat.
- jtode 3y ago
  No individual is all that important, but collectively, a bunch of individuals are extremely powerful. A bunch of angry individuals can destroy quite a lot in a short period of time. The individuals that are deluding themselves are the very few individuals at the top of this scheme.
bamfly 3y ago
I wonder how many of the people coordinating the blackout sent the "challenge accepted" meme to one another, on reading this quote. It was sure the first thing that popped into my head, on reading it.
- jtriangle 3y ago
  "We can remain r*tarded longer than they can remain solvent"

jtode 3y ago

Seems like someone determined to finish the task his masters sent him to do.

kibwen 3y ago

Extending the blackout indefinitely has now become a coordinated action via /r/ModCoord (which is the also the source of the list of blacked out subreddits that people are using), with an optional "solidarity mode" that involves blacking out one day a week in perpetuity (which they're calling "Touch Grass Tuesdays"): https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinite_blackout_next_steps_polling_your/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinit...

mr_00ff00 3y ago
The irony of organizing a blackout to teach Reddit a lesson while organizing it on a subreddit.
- mrits 3y ago
  It isn't irony at all. Reddit gets almost zero revenue from the sub organizing it. People aren't protesting Reddit in general, but a policy of reddit.
  - mr_00ff00 3y ago
    It’s not about revenue. As people have mentioned already, the CEO said the blackout has had almost no revenue impact. it’s funny to create a protest and hoping for change by showing Reddit that the community can walk away…and then using reddit to organize it. You are basically showing you can’t think of any good alternatives to organizing or chatting with people. So you will continue to use Reddit, even during a protest specifically about not using reddit. “we will leave you if you treat us badly” and then also “I have to use your product cause I can’t find anything else.” Doesn’t work well together.
    - kibwen 3y ago
      ...Except that /r/ModCoord does have other venues, like the Discord linked in the sidebar. They mirror announcements to Reddit because that's the only place that's guaranteed to reach everyone involved, who are on Reddit by definition.
      - mr_00ff00 3y ago
        Sure, but shouldn’t they all not be on Reddit by definition?
      - George83728 3y ago
        If they don't need reddit, then they should stop using it to demonstrate that point. > "I'm not addicted, I can quit anytime I want." > "Okay then, prove it and quit today." > "....No."
        FemmeAndroid 3y ago
        > If they don't need reddit, then they should stop using it to demonstrate that point. Why wouldn’t you use every available, easy to use mechanism to broadcast a message? Clearly the actual organizing is happening on a variety of channels including Discord.
        mr_00ff00 3y ago
        Because the message is “don’t use Reddit” Use every available and easy mechanism, unless your protest is about one of them.
        George83728 3y ago
        > Why wouldn’t you use every available, easy to use mechanism to broadcast a message? Because continuing to use reddit broadcasts a different sort of message: they're a bunch of addicts who will come crawling back. > Clearly the actual organizing is happening on a variety of channels including Discord. All the more reason for them to quit using reddit...
  - cpeterso 3y ago
    The irony is that there is no viable alternative platform for the mods to organize on, demonstrating that Reddit has the market position to set high prices if they want to.
    - mrits 3y ago
      It doesn't take an intellectual giant to realize they are organizing on Discord.
smsm42 3y ago
This sounds like finding ways to fold without it looking like they folded. The question is simple - can they live with the new situation or not? If they are willing to, then protesting on Tuesdays is not going to do much. If they are not, then they are not on every day, not only Tuesday. I don't endorse either side here, but looking realistically, it's either win - Reddit changes their behavior to more acceptable - or loss - Reddit doesn't. Solidarity Tuesdays are just a form of the loss where people still pretend it's not lost yet.
- kibwen 3y ago
  For reference, 93% of the responses there so far are for indefinite blackout, and only 7% are for weekly blackouts.
- wlonkly 3y ago
  There are a handful of subreddits (for example, one for recovering alcoholics, one for legal advice) that have decided that their value to the community is higher than the value of staying closed. So I think if it does get extended then the eventual outcome is that "general" subreddits will remain closed, and those dealing with, for lack of a better phrase, vulnerable communities, will show solidarity with weekly blackout days instead.
jmclnx 3y ago
Funny you linked old.reddit, I find the new version unusable via firefox (I do not do mobile).

EA-3167 3y ago

From Reddit's perspective overall this is a terrible idea, but from Huffman's perspective it's purely rational. If he has to walk this back it's probably not compatible with his continued tenure after all, the question of why this was done so hastily and rudely would inevitably undermine his leadership. If he just barrels ahead though, and prays that the addictions of mods and users are greater than their pride/desire to have a functional site, then he can possibly survive. It's not as though there's a third choice, he can't realistically get rid of the mods and replace them, then expect that to not blow up in his face. He can't walk this back, and he's doubled down on libeling the dev of Apollo for example. "Stay the course and hope everyone just gets over it" is his best option, having already sunk into the quicksand. IMO of course.

seanosaur 3y ago
> he can't realistically get rid of the mods and replace them, then expect that to not blow up in his face I'm not so sure about that. I would be very surprised if there was a high % of redditors that know / care about the mods or mod system. This could be the cynic in me but I bet he could eject all the mods tomorrow, replace them with more faceless accounts, and the vast majority of reddit's userbase would not see a difference. Those that have been around the site for a while would notice and feel the change and not be happy about it, but we're most likely talking about a very small single-digit % of the userbase.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  I don't think the problem with ditching the existing mods for new ones has much to do with how users would perceive the shift. You have to ask how the hell Reddit would vet that number of replacements in any way, how they'd find the required number of able replacements, and not just people who would (through incompetence or malice) run things into the ground. That's doubly true for the mega-subs which genuinely require a LOT of constant moderation, specialized automated tools, and so on. That doesn't seem like a feasible path to me, and I think if it was remotely possible it would have already happened. The only way it COULD work is to get rid of the volunteer mod system and replace it with paid mods... and I don't think Reddit has the funds for that.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Krasnol 3y ago

/r/de, THE German sub has extended till Sunday.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago

One of the fun things about reddit is that if mods decide to extend it indefinitely, users are free to create their own subreddits and move their conversations there. Any mod who thinks they're ultimately important in the grand scheme of things is deluding themselves.

adamc 3y ago
I don't think that's true at all. Users can certainly create new subreddits, but new, compelling subreddits usually require... committed mods. Where are they going to come from, and why wouldn't they also care about these changes that make modding much worse? It's essentially an empty threat.
jtode 3y ago
No individual is all that important, but collectively, a bunch of individuals are extremely powerful. A bunch of angry individuals can destroy quite a lot in a short period of time. The individuals that are deluding themselves are the very few individuals at the top of this scheme.

bamfly 3y ago

I wonder how many of the people coordinating the blackout sent the "challenge accepted" meme to one another, on reading this quote. It was sure the first thing that popped into my head, on reading it.

jtriangle 3y ago
"We can remain r*tarded longer than they can remain solvent"