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I recall the negative reaction I got, on Hacker News and on Twitter, back in 2018, when I made the point that the Python community was one of the main groups dr

I recall the negative reaction I got, on Hacker News and on Twitter, back in 2018, when I made the point that the Python community was one of the main groups driving the adoption of Docker: "Package management in Python is so hopelessly broken that the Python community is eager to use Docker everywhere, as the only way to save the situation." In response, people laughed: "No one is using Docker for package management! Python has an abundance of good tools for that!" And yet it remains true, if package and dependency management in Python was seamless, then Docker would have had fewer advocates back in the early days. And one of the criticisms of Docker remains that it is sometimes used as a Band-Aid for flaws in some computer programming language, flaws that need a more fundamental solution.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago
To be honest, you still should use a venv in a docker image.
- crabbone 3y ago
  Insert the "if those people (behind the window with a poster) could read" meme. Seriously, if Python developers could produce a coherent thought, we wouldn't be here. They aren't bothered by a contradiction you pointed out. They still push for Docker adoption, even though it's not helping them, because they "want to believe".
macNchz 3y ago
This is likely true for me–I’m a fan of Docker and a longtime Python developer. Docker rose in popularity at around the same time that many applications were in between Python 2 and 3, and putting apps in containers was a bit of a magic wand to wave away various issues, some of which still exist and some that were worse during that transition. I still like Docker regardless of Python–I wouldn’t want to go back to development using a vm-per-app, or dealing with mismatched db/cache/queue/system package versions between projects or across different developers machines.
deepsquirrelnet 3y ago
I’ve been writing python code for about 19 years, and I remember yours or similar arguments about docker. I completely agree. Docker has more or less saved python from its own packaging issues, especially in the cloud. On local machines, I really found the most comical show of python distribution wreckage in RedHat/CentOS distributions. Back in 2015 or so, yum was tied to the system version of python. Heaven help you if you didn’t realize it and went mucking around on it (like me).

BiteCode_dev 3y ago

To be honest, you still should use a venv in a docker image.

crabbone 3y ago
Insert the "if those people (behind the window with a poster) could read" meme. Seriously, if Python developers could produce a coherent thought, we wouldn't be here. They aren't bothered by a contradiction you pointed out. They still push for Docker adoption, even though it's not helping them, because they "want to believe".

macNchz 3y ago

This is likely true for me–I’m a fan of Docker and a longtime Python developer. Docker rose in popularity at around the same time that many applications were in between Python 2 and 3, and putting apps in containers was a bit of a magic wand to wave away various issues, some of which still exist and some that were worse during that transition. I still like Docker regardless of Python–I wouldn’t want to go back to development using a vm-per-app, or dealing with mismatched db/cache/queue/system package versions between projects or across different developers machines.

deepsquirrelnet 3y ago

I’ve been writing python code for about 19 years, and I remember yours or similar arguments about docker. I completely agree. Docker has more or less saved python from its own packaging issues, especially in the cloud. On local machines, I really found the most comical show of python distribution wreckage in RedHat/CentOS distributions. Back in 2015 or so, yum was tied to the system version of python. Heaven help you if you didn’t realize it and went mucking around on it (like me).