5 ms·

The vast majority of users absolutely don't care about data residency or "privacy", however you interpret that word. You can convince individuals to care, but g

by muglug 3y ago

The vast majority of users absolutely don't care about data residency or "privacy", however you interpret that word. You can convince individuals to care, but good luck convincing a large group. What can happen (and has happened) is that the existing thing becomes just toxic enough to lessen the pull and invite alternatives. For the tech communities I've been a part of this has happened a number of times in the history of the web — off the top of my head: • ExpertsExchange -> StackOverflow • IE 6 -> Firefox • Twitter -> Mastodon In all cases the migration was driven by software engineers' disgust with the platform. The current Twitter -> Mastodon migration is mostly just folks in tech, but there are enough of us to forge decent-sized communities there.

jxf 3y ago
ExpertsExchange was before my time, but was it "toxic" or was it just simply not as good?
- ascagnel_ 3y ago
  It was significantly less useful — answers were behind a paywall.
- muglug 3y ago
  I use "toxic" in the sense that it actively repelled users.
copperx 3y ago
Wait, does Mastodon have traction?
- yborg 3y ago
  Relative to what? It currently has ~1.2M monthly active users, or less than 0.5% of Twitter. It's probably 20x the active user base of IRC.
- ImaCake 3y ago
  It has enough traction that it’s a vibrant set of communities. I use it to share bird photos, talk about adhd/autism, and follow some climate science. Its smaller than twitter, but its big enough to work now.
  - copperx 3y ago
    Which server do you recommend?
    - abawany 3y ago
      not the GP but I've been happy on fosstodon.org. It has been reliable and I've found a lot of good people to follow on it, including the founder of MNT.
    - ImaCake 3y ago
      I am on Aus.social as that is a relevant country for me. It’s a left leaning instance but generally relaxed aside from the usual anti nazi moderation.
- taude 3y ago
  I don't know anyone going over there, except for the couple people on Hackernews who keep saying it's the next big thing.
  - muglug 3y ago
    It’s not the next big thing, but it’s definitely a thing now. Lots of big names in tech post there exclusively.
    - thegeekpirate 3y ago
      Including Linus Torvalds! https://social.kernel.org/users/torvalds https://social.kernel.org/users/torvalds
  - galactus 3y ago
    At this point there is enough people on Mastodon for me to stay there without caring if its “the next big” or not.
    - stubybubs 3y ago
      These days I'm actually more excited to find the next small thing.
      - ploum 3y ago
        Exactly. Everybody seems to look for the place "where everyone is". Truth is that there is none. People are always spread around many different places (and it’s a good thing). Is everybody on Mastodon ? Absolutely not (but you would be surprised how many people never were on Twitter either). Is there enough people on Mastodon to keep you informed, entertained and making you discover new stuff? Absolutely. Is your niche interest represented on Mastodon? I don’t know but it might be, although with different "codes/traditions" which might make it harder to find at first glance. Will Mastodon be the next big thing? Well, nobody on Mastodon seems to care about that question. Is Mastodon a success? Of course it is for the thousands people using it daily. Should I use Mastodon? Only you can answer that…
kelnos 3y ago
And yet, today Firefox has single-digit-percent market share, and the dominant player is in some ways worse than Microsoft was. MS seemed to want to make the web stagnate, while Google wants to turn the web into (more of) a privacy-free, advertising machine, and has been steering web standards in that direction. Google allows Firefox to exist (by funding Mozilla via Firefox's default search engine) only so they can point to the fact that there are alternatives, with alternative rendering engines. It is unclear if Mastodon will actually replace Twitter. I'm skeptical. I think Twitter would have to actually fail (as in, go bankrupt, or at least have such severe technical uptime/stability issues) before the platform would be abandoned enough to definitively say Mastodon won. ExpertsExchange -> SO mainly happened because all the decent answers on EE were hidden behind a paywall.
- muglug 3y ago
  The IE 6 to Firefox migration started about 20 years ago. The world of browsers today is _very_ different. You may not like Google's influence, but they don't hold back technical innovation in the way that Microsoft did with IE 6. Many web designers, me included, spent hours on each project hacking around its CSS bugs and JS drawbacks. I've not had to do that with Chrome, which makes it miles better.
  - coldacid 3y ago
    Honestly, I'd rather be stuck again with the restrictions IE put on us than the social destruction Google is waging on the internet.
  - aerio 3y ago
    >You may not like Google's influence, but they don't hold back technical innovation in the way that Microsoft did with IE 6. No, the problem with Google's huge market share is that they can use their huge market share to push the web in ways that aren't standardized or in most people's best interest. They end up breaking the web. Example: https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/04/chrome_breaks_web/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/04/chrome_breaks_web/
- grayfaced 3y ago
taude 3y ago
I honestly don't know anyone who went into Mastodon, except for probably a few people from here?
- bitwize 3y ago
  The trans community is currently the wellspring which most reliably produces top developer talent. When trans folks saw the toxicity and hate Elon was enabling with Twitter they fucked off to Mastodon, and the barycenter of tech discussion shifted in a less Twitterly, more Mastodonish direction.
  - chrjxnandns 3y ago
    “The trans community is currently the wellspring which most reliably produces top developer talent.” Uh is this your opinion or are there some facts that back this in any way
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- muglug 3y ago
  Almost all of the tech-adjacent people I follow on Twitter created Mastodon accounts, and about 2/3 of them stuck around. About half the people I follow on Twitter are tech-adjacent. The other half mostly stayed on Twitter, albeit posting less than they used to.
- zeruch 3y ago
  I know a decent number of tech, some art, and a handful of others (in Social Sciences/Journalism mostly). People treat migration as a "exodus" level event, or its a "failure" which misses the point.
ymolodtsov 3y ago
IE6 wasn't "toxic". It simply was very bad and outdated. Firefox and Opera were better browsers, plus the browser doesn't really have major network effects.

by muglug 3y ago

jxf 3y ago

ExpertsExchange was before my time, but was it "toxic" or was it just simply not as good?

ascagnel_ 3y ago
It was significantly less useful — answers were behind a paywall.
muglug 3y ago
I use "toxic" in the sense that it actively repelled users.

copperx 3y ago

Wait, does Mastodon have traction?

yborg 3y ago
Relative to what? It currently has ~1.2M monthly active users, or less than 0.5% of Twitter. It's probably 20x the active user base of IRC.
ImaCake 3y ago
It has enough traction that it’s a vibrant set of communities. I use it to share bird photos, talk about adhd/autism, and follow some climate science. Its smaller than twitter, but its big enough to work now.
- copperx 3y ago
  Which server do you recommend?
  - abawany 3y ago
    not the GP but I've been happy on fosstodon.org. It has been reliable and I've found a lot of good people to follow on it, including the founder of MNT.
  - ImaCake 3y ago
    I am on Aus.social as that is a relevant country for me. It’s a left leaning instance but generally relaxed aside from the usual anti nazi moderation.
taude 3y ago
I don't know anyone going over there, except for the couple people on Hackernews who keep saying it's the next big thing.
- muglug 3y ago
  It’s not the next big thing, but it’s definitely a thing now. Lots of big names in tech post there exclusively.
  - thegeekpirate 3y ago
    Including Linus Torvalds! https://social.kernel.org/users/torvalds https://social.kernel.org/users/torvalds
- galactus 3y ago
  At this point there is enough people on Mastodon for me to stay there without caring if its “the next big” or not.
  - stubybubs 3y ago
    These days I'm actually more excited to find the next small thing.
    - ploum 3y ago
      Exactly. Everybody seems to look for the place "where everyone is". Truth is that there is none. People are always spread around many different places (and it’s a good thing). Is everybody on Mastodon ? Absolutely not (but you would be surprised how many people never were on Twitter either). Is there enough people on Mastodon to keep you informed, entertained and making you discover new stuff? Absolutely. Is your niche interest represented on Mastodon? I don’t know but it might be, although with different "codes/traditions" which might make it harder to find at first glance. Will Mastodon be the next big thing? Well, nobody on Mastodon seems to care about that question. Is Mastodon a success? Of course it is for the thousands people using it daily. Should I use Mastodon? Only you can answer that…

kelnos 3y ago

And yet, today Firefox has single-digit-percent market share, and the dominant player is in some ways worse than Microsoft was. MS seemed to want to make the web stagnate, while Google wants to turn the web into (more of) a privacy-free, advertising machine, and has been steering web standards in that direction. Google allows Firefox to exist (by funding Mozilla via Firefox's default search engine) only so they can point to the fact that there are alternatives, with alternative rendering engines. It is unclear if Mastodon will actually replace Twitter. I'm skeptical. I think Twitter would have to actually fail (as in, go bankrupt, or at least have such severe technical uptime/stability issues) before the platform would be abandoned enough to definitively say Mastodon won. ExpertsExchange -> SO mainly happened because all the decent answers on EE were hidden behind a paywall.

muglug 3y ago
The IE 6 to Firefox migration started about 20 years ago. The world of browsers today is _very_ different. You may not like Google's influence, but they don't hold back technical innovation in the way that Microsoft did with IE 6. Many web designers, me included, spent hours on each project hacking around its CSS bugs and JS drawbacks. I've not had to do that with Chrome, which makes it miles better.
- coldacid 3y ago
  Honestly, I'd rather be stuck again with the restrictions IE put on us than the social destruction Google is waging on the internet.
- aerio 3y ago
  >You may not like Google's influence, but they don't hold back technical innovation in the way that Microsoft did with IE 6. No, the problem with Google's huge market share is that they can use their huge market share to push the web in ways that aren't standardized or in most people's best interest. They end up breaking the web. Example: https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/04/chrome_breaks_web/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/04/chrome_breaks_web/
grayfaced 3y ago

taude 3y ago

I honestly don't know anyone who went into Mastodon, except for probably a few people from here?

bitwize 3y ago
The trans community is currently the wellspring which most reliably produces top developer talent. When trans folks saw the toxicity and hate Elon was enabling with Twitter they fucked off to Mastodon, and the barycenter of tech discussion shifted in a less Twitterly, more Mastodonish direction.
- chrjxnandns 3y ago
  “The trans community is currently the wellspring which most reliably produces top developer talent.” Uh is this your opinion or are there some facts that back this in any way
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
muglug 3y ago
Almost all of the tech-adjacent people I follow on Twitter created Mastodon accounts, and about 2/3 of them stuck around. About half the people I follow on Twitter are tech-adjacent. The other half mostly stayed on Twitter, albeit posting less than they used to.
zeruch 3y ago
I know a decent number of tech, some art, and a handful of others (in Social Sciences/Journalism mostly). People treat migration as a "exodus" level event, or its a "failure" which misses the point.

ymolodtsov 3y ago

IE6 wasn't "toxic". It simply was very bad and outdated. Firefox and Opera were better browsers, plus the browser doesn't really have major network effects.