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> ...doing work in headsets... Is it possible to use Vision Pro to build and publish a Vision Pro app? Because it seems to be another Apple device separating

> ...doing work in headsets... Is it possible to use Vision Pro to build and publish a Vision Pro app? Because it seems to be another Apple device separating producers and consumers just like iPad and iPhone.

htag 3y ago
They said it runs xcode, so I'd assume so
senttoschool 3y ago
This is a valid question and should not be downvoted. Are we going to be able to create a large software project using it without carrying around a MacBook as well? It’d be nice to be able to run macOS when I travel and not have to bring my MacBook.
- bun_at_work 3y ago
  This seems more than a little likely, as Vision Pro has an M2 chip for processing, and the R1 for vision processing. If your work needs a fully-capable GPU, that's probably a different story, although most graphics work (like photo editing/video editing) should run well on the M2.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    On the other hand, the iPad Pros have M1s (M2s?) but so far Apple keeps them constrained.
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  From the ad, it looked to me like you get a iPad-esque computing device when standalone, but that it tethers and can act as a display for macOS. Just speculative of course, but in the ad they said something like, “connect to your MacBook to extend all your MacBook apps onto the Vision Pro.” I suspect that, like the iPad, there will be ways to force it to function as a standalone device, but that the happy path will be heavily optimized towards you buying as much Apple hardware as possible.
- MBCook 3y ago
  We don’t know about running only on the headset. I suspect the downvotes are because the keynote literally featured someone using their Mac inside the headset. And another video (session? State of the union?) showed developing a Vision Pro app on the Mac and testing it right next to the Mac from inside the Vision Pro.
  - bagels 3y ago
    Right, it sends the message that the developer is better served by using a Mac, or that the Vision Pro is not capable. Maybe that was honest/intentional?
    - MBCook 3y ago
      It’s got a full M2 and (reportedly) 16 GB of RAM. In theory it’s capable. That doesn’t mean Apple will expose that. Maybe just not today. The original iPhone had a full OS capable of multitasking but it wasn’t a feature given to the user due to memory and battery constraints. We’ve now had it for years. This was the first we’ve seen of it, and I suspect the on device development story was not one they wanted to spend limited time on. Plus knowing Apple it seems likely they’d want to make Xcode work better for the interface than just plopping the Mac app in. Time will tell. The iPad can do development. Apple has proven it with Swift Playgrounds. But they still haven’t given us Xcode. So who knows.
      - rfgmendoza 3y ago
        apple is so determined to prevent any serious code execution that even ssh apps require janky workarounds just to provide a terminal emulation that still needs a second device to communicate with just to do any real work
        dwaite 3y ago
        A terminal for an integrated ssh client should not require any just-in-time code execution functionality. Or are you speaking instead to a local terminal environment, like iSH or a-Shell on iPad?
- rfgmendoza 3y ago
  yes, its the difference between the headset being a bold new computer form factor, or just another peripheral. basically is it a laptop (fully independent), an ipad (excellent secondary device that can do focused work on it's own), or a smart monitor (peripheral with some built in usability)?
  - dwaite 3y ago
    My understanding is that it is closest to a 3D iPad with virtual monitor support for remote devices like Macs.
l33t233372 3y ago
iPad had lots of producer-esque features, so I’m not sure what you mean by that.
jayd16 3y ago
If you count streaming a Mac running xcode, then yes.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  If we count that then we count an iPad remote-deskoping into a Mac, which severly limits the actual use.
  - Asdrubalini 3y ago
    But with the Vision Pro there is zero latency and the possibility of having many big screens, whilst when remote-desktoping into a Mac from an iPad you gain nothing and the high latency makes it worse.
    - nomel 3y ago
      This is how I work now, with my Quest Pro and my MacBook. It's using local Wifi (or USB), so the latency is very low.
    - jayd16 3y ago
      Why would the latency be lower on the AVP?
      - Asdrubalini 3y ago
        Because it's not remote, if you are streaming from your Mac, it's right there, at 2m at most. It's much different than remote connecting from an iPad 100 km away.
        jayd16 3y ago
        Why would an iPad be forced to be 100km away?
        Asdrubalini 3y ago
bamfly 3y ago
> Because it seems to be another Apple device separating producers and consumers just like iPad and iPhone. The persistent framing of i-devices this way on HN, after all these years, is baffling to me. Tons of creation happens on them, or using them as a tool in service of creation, much of which would be harder or impossible with traditional computer. Just not a lot of software creation.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  Because with the exception of very few tasks like digital art the limitations placed on iOS make it worse. Some tasks are just straight up impossible (e.g compiling code), others are just hampered by things like file management and sandboxing or lack of support for hardware/accessories. Sometimes they can be worked around but often it's an exercise in frustration to do something that would be brain-dead on a desktop OS but requires a whole host of taps and trips through the share menu or whatever to get the same result. Even in digital art where the iPad excels doing something like having a reference photo open while you work is compromised and the only good way to do is to hope the app you're using supports it a reasonable way or else throw away half your screen real estate.
  - bamfly 3y ago
    All I can figure is difference in perspective is because such a large part of the potential of i-devices (or phones and tablets more broadly) for creation involves using them as a tool to get something done in the real world, and/or for the kinds of creative tasks that get overlooked by the hackerspace crowd (running an Instagram, say, involves lots of creation; tradespeople and home DIYers routinely use phones and tablets to help get things done in situations where a laptop wouldn't be a useful alternative; that kind of thing). Desktop computers are mainly good, outside of industrial uses, for creating more stuff for computers. I-Devices shine when most of your task's not on a computer, and the computer's just one of many tools at your disposal. If "creation" is making stuff for computers, they seem bad. If "creation" happens in the real world and the computer's just a tool to help with that, and nothing more, they're pretty appealing. A smart slab of glass packed with sensors that can become different tools. Super handy, and a "real" computer couldn't replace it. For most creation-oriented tasks I do that aren't computer-centric, I'd much rather have an iPhone or iPad than a laptop. They're great tools for creation & work, just not so much for creating stuff for computers, certain exceptions aside, and for those they're mostly just about as good as a laptop, or even not-very-good but usable in a pinch, not better.
basisword 3y ago
They demoed this in the State of the Union I think. Vision Pro was on with Xcode + a live build of the app that was being developed side by side. I'm not sure if Xcode was running on device or on a Mac though.

htag 3y ago

They said it runs xcode, so I'd assume so

senttoschool 3y ago

This is a valid question and should not be downvoted. Are we going to be able to create a large software project using it without carrying around a MacBook as well? It’d be nice to be able to run macOS when I travel and not have to bring my MacBook.

bun_at_work 3y ago
This seems more than a little likely, as Vision Pro has an M2 chip for processing, and the R1 for vision processing. If your work needs a fully-capable GPU, that's probably a different story, although most graphics work (like photo editing/video editing) should run well on the M2.
- MBCook 3y ago
  On the other hand, the iPad Pros have M1s (M2s?) but so far Apple keeps them constrained.
IggleSniggle 3y ago
From the ad, it looked to me like you get a iPad-esque computing device when standalone, but that it tethers and can act as a display for macOS. Just speculative of course, but in the ad they said something like, “connect to your MacBook to extend all your MacBook apps onto the Vision Pro.” I suspect that, like the iPad, there will be ways to force it to function as a standalone device, but that the happy path will be heavily optimized towards you buying as much Apple hardware as possible.
MBCook 3y ago
We don’t know about running only on the headset. I suspect the downvotes are because the keynote literally featured someone using their Mac inside the headset. And another video (session? State of the union?) showed developing a Vision Pro app on the Mac and testing it right next to the Mac from inside the Vision Pro.
- bagels 3y ago
  Right, it sends the message that the developer is better served by using a Mac, or that the Vision Pro is not capable. Maybe that was honest/intentional?
  - MBCook 3y ago
    It’s got a full M2 and (reportedly) 16 GB of RAM. In theory it’s capable. That doesn’t mean Apple will expose that. Maybe just not today. The original iPhone had a full OS capable of multitasking but it wasn’t a feature given to the user due to memory and battery constraints. We’ve now had it for years. This was the first we’ve seen of it, and I suspect the on device development story was not one they wanted to spend limited time on. Plus knowing Apple it seems likely they’d want to make Xcode work better for the interface than just plopping the Mac app in. Time will tell. The iPad can do development. Apple has proven it with Swift Playgrounds. But they still haven’t given us Xcode. So who knows.
    - rfgmendoza 3y ago
      apple is so determined to prevent any serious code execution that even ssh apps require janky workarounds just to provide a terminal emulation that still needs a second device to communicate with just to do any real work
      - dwaite 3y ago
        A terminal for an integrated ssh client should not require any just-in-time code execution functionality. Or are you speaking instead to a local terminal environment, like iSH or a-Shell on iPad?
rfgmendoza 3y ago
yes, its the difference between the headset being a bold new computer form factor, or just another peripheral. basically is it a laptop (fully independent), an ipad (excellent secondary device that can do focused work on it's own), or a smart monitor (peripheral with some built in usability)?
- dwaite 3y ago
  My understanding is that it is closest to a 3D iPad with virtual monitor support for remote devices like Macs.

l33t233372 3y ago

iPad had lots of producer-esque features, so I’m not sure what you mean by that.

jayd16 3y ago

If you count streaming a Mac running xcode, then yes.

madeofpalk 3y ago
If we count that then we count an iPad remote-deskoping into a Mac, which severly limits the actual use.
- Asdrubalini 3y ago
  But with the Vision Pro there is zero latency and the possibility of having many big screens, whilst when remote-desktoping into a Mac from an iPad you gain nothing and the high latency makes it worse.
  - nomel 3y ago
    This is how I work now, with my Quest Pro and my MacBook. It's using local Wifi (or USB), so the latency is very low.
  - jayd16 3y ago
    Why would the latency be lower on the AVP?
    - Asdrubalini 3y ago
      Because it's not remote, if you are streaming from your Mac, it's right there, at 2m at most. It's much different than remote connecting from an iPad 100 km away.
      - jayd16 3y ago
        Why would an iPad be forced to be 100km away?
        Asdrubalini 3y ago

bamfly 3y ago

> Because it seems to be another Apple device separating producers and consumers just like iPad and iPhone. The persistent framing of i-devices this way on HN, after all these years, is baffling to me. Tons of creation happens on them, or using them as a tool in service of creation, much of which would be harder or impossible with traditional computer. Just not a lot of software creation.

goosedragons 3y ago
Because with the exception of very few tasks like digital art the limitations placed on iOS make it worse. Some tasks are just straight up impossible (e.g compiling code), others are just hampered by things like file management and sandboxing or lack of support for hardware/accessories. Sometimes they can be worked around but often it's an exercise in frustration to do something that would be brain-dead on a desktop OS but requires a whole host of taps and trips through the share menu or whatever to get the same result. Even in digital art where the iPad excels doing something like having a reference photo open while you work is compromised and the only good way to do is to hope the app you're using supports it a reasonable way or else throw away half your screen real estate.
- bamfly 3y ago
  All I can figure is difference in perspective is because such a large part of the potential of i-devices (or phones and tablets more broadly) for creation involves using them as a tool to get something done in the real world, and/or for the kinds of creative tasks that get overlooked by the hackerspace crowd (running an Instagram, say, involves lots of creation; tradespeople and home DIYers routinely use phones and tablets to help get things done in situations where a laptop wouldn't be a useful alternative; that kind of thing). Desktop computers are mainly good, outside of industrial uses, for creating more stuff for computers. I-Devices shine when most of your task's not on a computer, and the computer's just one of many tools at your disposal. If "creation" is making stuff for computers, they seem bad. If "creation" happens in the real world and the computer's just a tool to help with that, and nothing more, they're pretty appealing. A smart slab of glass packed with sensors that can become different tools. Super handy, and a "real" computer couldn't replace it. For most creation-oriented tasks I do that aren't computer-centric, I'd much rather have an iPhone or iPad than a laptop. They're great tools for creation & work, just not so much for creating stuff for computers, certain exceptions aside, and for those they're mostly just about as good as a laptop, or even not-very-good but usable in a pinch, not better.

basisword 3y ago

They demoed this in the State of the Union I think. Vision Pro was on with Xcode + a live build of the app that was being developed side by side. I'm not sure if Xcode was running on device or on a Mac though.