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> And Apple usually doesn’t do MVPs > The big Apple hits have been the perfected version of products that already had massive markets Uh... Did you own the f

> And Apple usually doesn’t do MVPs > The big Apple hits have been the perfected version of products that already had massive markets Uh... Did you own the first iPhone? It had no apps and no horizontal typing. It didn't even have 3g. Few if any mobile sites. Small screen. Bad battery life. Did you own the first iPod? 5gb. Firewire connection (which were hard to come by). The scroll wheel was an ACTUAL wheel. You needed a mac to use. Again, bad battery life. I won't even go into the early mac desktops and laptops. Those were MVP's on the market. Where we are now with those products didn't dictate where were were then. The did the bare minimum to be considered products.

nico 3y ago
Exactly Those might have been MVPs in terms of what Apple can do But the markets were already there Millions/billions of people who already owned a personal music player or a cellphone Compare the size and maturity of those markets to the current VR/AR market
- John23832 3y ago
  The cell phone market at the time did not fit the iPhone. There was no attempt at internet connectivity. The biggest seller at the time was the razor, a flip phone. Not comparable. There was the palm pilot, but the market was minuscule compare to the iPhone market today There is an argument to be made for iPhone vs. media players. The Irivers and the like were comparable functionally. The iPhone just had a killer app… the iTunes Store.
  - nico 3y ago
    Apple’s success is not about their features Apple’s success is about their appeal The iPhone was not a success because of the iTunes Store The iPhone was a success because it was a status symbol And having the latest one still is Having a Vision Pro is not
    - John23832 3y ago
      You mean iPod.
    - jkubicek 3y ago
      > The iPhone was a success because it was a status symbol > And having the latest one still is You may be forgetting just how dismal the phone market was when the iPhone was released. As basic as it was, the first iPhone was astronomically better than any other phone on the market. In the last 15 years, the rest of the market has mostly caught up, but the iPhone is still one of the best phones you can get and the best phone you can buy that runs iOS, if that's your preference.
matwood 3y ago
Or look at the Apple Watch which dominates wearables and sells more than all mechanical watches combined. Series 0 was terrible hardware wise, and their premium marketing strategy was a flop.
Clamchop 3y ago
Sounds like there might be some ambiguity around "minimum". These products were quite a bit "extra" in the cohorts of devices they were competing against. They were arguably minimal for what Apple intended to do. They obviously wanted to carve out new categories and create products that would not be fungible with the competition in the minds of consumers, which from their perspective would raise the bar on what the minimum is. But, in terms of the market, the iPod was not a minimum viable music player, and the iPhone was not a minimum viable phone. Notes on iPod, 5GB was a very large capacity at the time, and the iPod was smaller than competitors with similar capacity. The wheel was very extra as a concept, however implemented. It had 10 hours of playtime on a single charge. It was built well from steel and polycarbonate. This was a premium product.
- John23832 3y ago
  By that logic the Vision pro isn't an MVP for AR... so then what are we talking about as MVP's?
silok 3y ago
Uh, dude, the first iPod was amazing. Lots of storage and firewire made transfers ridiculously fast, but yeah the target market was probably people who already had a modern Mac. Also the physical wheel was amazingly good UX, and very responsive.

nico 3y ago

Exactly Those might have been MVPs in terms of what Apple can do But the markets were already there Millions/billions of people who already owned a personal music player or a cellphone Compare the size and maturity of those markets to the current VR/AR market

John23832 3y ago
The cell phone market at the time did not fit the iPhone. There was no attempt at internet connectivity. The biggest seller at the time was the razor, a flip phone. Not comparable. There was the palm pilot, but the market was minuscule compare to the iPhone market today There is an argument to be made for iPhone vs. media players. The Irivers and the like were comparable functionally. The iPhone just had a killer app… the iTunes Store.
- nico 3y ago
  Apple’s success is not about their features Apple’s success is about their appeal The iPhone was not a success because of the iTunes Store The iPhone was a success because it was a status symbol And having the latest one still is Having a Vision Pro is not
  - John23832 3y ago
    You mean iPod.
  - jkubicek 3y ago
    > The iPhone was a success because it was a status symbol > And having the latest one still is You may be forgetting just how dismal the phone market was when the iPhone was released. As basic as it was, the first iPhone was astronomically better than any other phone on the market. In the last 15 years, the rest of the market has mostly caught up, but the iPhone is still one of the best phones you can get and the best phone you can buy that runs iOS, if that's your preference.

matwood 3y ago

Or look at the Apple Watch which dominates wearables and sells more than all mechanical watches combined. Series 0 was terrible hardware wise, and their premium marketing strategy was a flop.

Clamchop 3y ago

Sounds like there might be some ambiguity around "minimum". These products were quite a bit "extra" in the cohorts of devices they were competing against. They were arguably minimal for what Apple intended to do. They obviously wanted to carve out new categories and create products that would not be fungible with the competition in the minds of consumers, which from their perspective would raise the bar on what the minimum is. But, in terms of the market, the iPod was not a minimum viable music player, and the iPhone was not a minimum viable phone. Notes on iPod, 5GB was a very large capacity at the time, and the iPod was smaller than competitors with similar capacity. The wheel was very extra as a concept, however implemented. It had 10 hours of playtime on a single charge. It was built well from steel and polycarbonate. This was a premium product.

John23832 3y ago
By that logic the Vision pro isn't an MVP for AR... so then what are we talking about as MVP's?

silok 3y ago

Uh, dude, the first iPod was amazing. Lots of storage and firewire made transfers ridiculously fast, but yeah the target market was probably people who already had a modern Mac. Also the physical wheel was amazingly good UX, and very responsive.