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Might as well lock and close the thread, with that reductive made-up assertion. It's not like there's a fixed budget of carbon credits distributed amongst the w

Might as well lock and close the thread, with that reductive made-up assertion. It's not like there's a fixed budget of carbon credits distributed amongst the world's population. And no, "don't have kids" and "kill yourself" are really not actually the same.

nathan_compton 3y ago
They aren't the same but they are both extreme solutions to the problem of climate change that are unlikely to win a significant number of adherents.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
unsupp0rted 3y ago
Well put. “I’m gay” Hn: so what, everybody’s something “I’m an atheist” Hn: yes and? “I embed sensors under my skin” Hn: cool! “I’m childfree” Hn: why don’t you just kill yourself then? Tongue in cheek: obviously not all of HN. But this is one of the few alt views / lifestyles that HN doesn’t easily rally behind.
- nathan_compton 3y ago
  I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I'm 100% fine with people not wanting to have kids. I also think people who aren't fine with it suck. Let people do whatever if it doesn't hurt anyone, obviously. What I object to is the suggestion "just don't have kids" is a viable political path forward on the question of the environment. It isn't a viable path of any kind, political or otherwise.
  - predictabl3 3y ago
    For what it's worth, I don't feel it's appropriate to dictate or even advise others on child-rearing decisions, but I don't understand how humanity has a chance if we all throw our hands up in the air and say: there's no way we'll get Americans to give up their cars, meat, or 2.5 babies. I'm not really advocating anything here, just lamenting the seeming (and somewhat assumed) immutability of it all. (random but I really appreciated these subthreads, definitely some good stuff for me to chew on)
    - nathan_compton 3y ago
      Well, I'm not saying that modification of behavior is impossible, just that "don't have kids" is practically a non-starter. Stiff tax penalties for more than 3 kids is probably something which might become possible if things get pretty bad, for example (I'm sure conservatives would object strongly, however). Carbon taxes/credits are probably possible. Huge public works (build enough solar panels and energy storage station to meet most of our power needs). Big taxes on carmakers for making high emission vehicles, etc. There are lots of policies which can work, and I think the market will, eventually, also probably get there eventually. But just telling people not to have kids is silly.
    - unsupp0rted 3y ago
      > I don't feel it's appropriate to dictate or even advise others on child-rearing decisions Why not? It's appropriate to dictate and even advise on lots of things that are personal/private. We have laws and social norms to keep people from being horrible to their own children, even behind closed doors, but only after those children are born. My suggestion is for those bits of advice, backed by the government's monopoly on force, to kick in just a year earlier than that.
      - predictabl3 3y ago
        I'm a big fan of reproductive freedom and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with my thoughts about natalism, so I try to at least stay out of direct advice/condemnation for individuals.
        unsupp0rted 3y ago
        I also wouldn't tell individuals how to live. I'd support society-level mores and laws though.
  - unsupp0rted 3y ago
    "Don't have kids, especially if you're poor or emotionally unstable" is a non-starter, contrary to our basic human nature. "Stop being an omnivore" is sound advice for the modern furless ape.
BasedAnon 3y ago
The reasoning applies to both, hence the point.

nathan_compton 3y ago

They aren't the same but they are both extreme solutions to the problem of climate change that are unlikely to win a significant number of adherents.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

unsupp0rted 3y ago

Well put. “I’m gay” Hn: so what, everybody’s something “I’m an atheist” Hn: yes and? “I embed sensors under my skin” Hn: cool! “I’m childfree” Hn: why don’t you just kill yourself then? Tongue in cheek: obviously not all of HN. But this is one of the few alt views / lifestyles that HN doesn’t easily rally behind.

nathan_compton 3y ago
I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I'm 100% fine with people not wanting to have kids. I also think people who aren't fine with it suck. Let people do whatever if it doesn't hurt anyone, obviously. What I object to is the suggestion "just don't have kids" is a viable political path forward on the question of the environment. It isn't a viable path of any kind, political or otherwise.
- predictabl3 3y ago
  For what it's worth, I don't feel it's appropriate to dictate or even advise others on child-rearing decisions, but I don't understand how humanity has a chance if we all throw our hands up in the air and say: there's no way we'll get Americans to give up their cars, meat, or 2.5 babies. I'm not really advocating anything here, just lamenting the seeming (and somewhat assumed) immutability of it all. (random but I really appreciated these subthreads, definitely some good stuff for me to chew on)
  - nathan_compton 3y ago
    Well, I'm not saying that modification of behavior is impossible, just that "don't have kids" is practically a non-starter. Stiff tax penalties for more than 3 kids is probably something which might become possible if things get pretty bad, for example (I'm sure conservatives would object strongly, however). Carbon taxes/credits are probably possible. Huge public works (build enough solar panels and energy storage station to meet most of our power needs). Big taxes on carmakers for making high emission vehicles, etc. There are lots of policies which can work, and I think the market will, eventually, also probably get there eventually. But just telling people not to have kids is silly.
  - unsupp0rted 3y ago
    > I don't feel it's appropriate to dictate or even advise others on child-rearing decisions Why not? It's appropriate to dictate and even advise on lots of things that are personal/private. We have laws and social norms to keep people from being horrible to their own children, even behind closed doors, but only after those children are born. My suggestion is for those bits of advice, backed by the government's monopoly on force, to kick in just a year earlier than that.
    - predictabl3 3y ago
      I'm a big fan of reproductive freedom and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with my thoughts about natalism, so I try to at least stay out of direct advice/condemnation for individuals.
      - unsupp0rted 3y ago
        I also wouldn't tell individuals how to live. I'd support society-level mores and laws though.
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  "Don't have kids, especially if you're poor or emotionally unstable" is a non-starter, contrary to our basic human nature. "Stop being an omnivore" is sound advice for the modern furless ape.

BasedAnon 3y ago

The reasoning applies to both, hence the point.