4 ms·

I would imagine creator of Clang and LLVM has a bit of an idea of how fast C runs :)

by qaq 3y ago

LeoNatan25 3y ago
Didn’t that team at Apple (with Lattner at the helm) also claim Swift was “faster than C”? I am yet to be convinced that in the general case, this is true, especially with the recent language bloat and lack of substantial compiler optimizations. But it wasn’t true back when Swift was released either.
- qaq 3y ago
  Could you provide a source for that?
simias 3y ago
Sure, I should have been clearer, what I had in mind was more "do potential users of Mojo even know or care about how fast C is?" In my experience the new generation of devs haven't touched C and treat it like some kind of weird arcane language, a bit like what Fortran and COBOL were when I started coding around 2000.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  New generation here, I don't see why I would ever code in actual C99 when (at worst) I could just code in C-style C++ but have some of the nice things.
  - nradov 3y ago
    The only reason for coding directly in C without using any C++ features would be if you have to contribute to a code base that is restricted to C. The Linux kernel being the most prominent example, but also a lot of embedded devices.
- Tozen 3y ago
  > ..."do potential users of Mojo even know or care about how fast C is?" I doubt their potential users would care so much, as long as it's significantly faster than Python and they don't need C or C++, except as an option and not as a necessity. That's been the point of various other alternative languages. The claim to fame of various newer compiled languages, is not just being as fast as C, but that they are better alternatives to use, for their audiences. Being easier to use, read, or/and learn. This is where some of the drama comes from, because some will make it about speed, and ignore the other elements of what is "attractive".
LeFantome 3y ago
Faster than Java with 5% of the memory? Lots of devs should get that.

I would imagine creator of Clang and LLVM has a bit of an idea of how fast C runs :)

by qaq 3y ago

I would imagine creator of Clang and LLVM has a bit of an idea of how fast C runs :)

Didn’t that team at Apple (with Lattner at the helm) also claim Swift was “faster than C”? I am yet to be convinced that in the general case, this is true, especially with the recent language bloat and lack of substantial compiler optimizations. But it wasn’t true back when Swift was released either.

qaq 3y ago
Could you provide a source for that?

simias 3y ago

Sure, I should have been clearer, what I had in mind was more "do potential users of Mojo even know or care about how fast C is?" In my experience the new generation of devs haven't touched C and treat it like some kind of weird arcane language, a bit like what Fortran and COBOL were when I started coding around 2000.

whimsicalism 3y ago
New generation here, I don't see why I would ever code in actual C99 when (at worst) I could just code in C-style C++ but have some of the nice things.
- nradov 3y ago
  The only reason for coding directly in C without using any C++ features would be if you have to contribute to a code base that is restricted to C. The Linux kernel being the most prominent example, but also a lot of embedded devices.
Tozen 3y ago
> ..."do potential users of Mojo even know or care about how fast C is?" I doubt their potential users would care so much, as long as it's significantly faster than Python and they don't need C or C++, except as an option and not as a necessity. That's been the point of various other alternative languages. The claim to fame of various newer compiled languages, is not just being as fast as C, but that they are better alternatives to use, for their audiences. Being easier to use, read, or/and learn. This is where some of the drama comes from, because some will make it about speed, and ignore the other elements of what is "attractive".

LeFantome 3y ago

Faster than Java with 5% of the memory? Lots of devs should get that.