5 ms·

There's a million immigrants per year and a tenth of that in new builds Now do the math

by insightful1 3y ago

reedf1 3y ago
Yes and the prescription is even more new builds. We need immigration, we are aging.
- insightful1 3y ago
  Ok, bring 50 million then, and build accordingly We are aging and your argument is irrefutable
- mnd999 3y ago
  Right wing commentators, which is basically the whole media, like to blame immigration for all the problems in the country. It’s much simpler and less awkward for them than trying to explain what is really going on.
  - insightful1 3y ago
    Immigration is demand, while supply has been sticky, prices have gone up massively. It's economics 101. But you think there's a kind of boomer conspiracy instead (ageist and racist undertones).
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      To be fair, a lot of the griping about immigration also reads to me to have racist undertones. (That could be influenced by my American reading, but it doesn't seem 100% that.)
- Lastodon 3y ago
  Japan is still a first world nation. The world hasn't ended for them. Can we stop pretending that having a population that isn't exponentially growing is a bad thing.
  - rs999gti 3y ago
    > having a population that isn't exponentially growing is a bad thing. I want social programs, but you got to have a tax base to pay for it
lambdas 3y ago
But those immigrants are never going to earn the necessary 5%, never mind 10% for a deposit. That’s with an established stream of income. Without, the deposit would be almost 50% leaving the homes to be scooped not by immigrants but those with high capital. No immigrant is buying a home. It’s banks buying them up, landlords, foreign nationals as investments. The UK housing is a commodity worth investing with no regard to the people who need them. Something has to give.
- badpun 3y ago
  It’s simple economics. Immigrants want to rent houses, which increases rents, which increases rental yields, which in turn increases properties values.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  They increase demand at the lower end which reduces the supply on the lower end. More-so for renting than owning, but that trends towards owning as they get established in the country. Theres no way around it. More people means less supply of housing. Canada has this same problem.
- spacebanana7 3y ago
  Increases in housing demand (without increases in supply) will almost always cause house price increases by pushing more marginal buyers into the buying market. Without any increase in supply, more people wanting emergency accommodation or council homes increase wait times. The person on the edge of deciding between council housing or private rental will go for the latter. The new renter will have to try and outbid other renters causing rental rates to go up. Ultimately that nudges the person on the edge of deciding between private rental and buying with a mortgage to enter the buying market and try to outbid other buyers - causing an increase in overall prices. There's suffering at each stage of this process, where high demand forces people to engage in transactions that stretch them financially. Over time many people will just 'drop out' by staying with parents or going abroad. The only real solution is to build more houses. In the 1960s the UK built >400k new homes per year [1] - enough to comfortably a million new migrants annually whilst also increasing house choice and affordability for people already resident. [1] https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1204154694051999745/photo/1 https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/12041546940519997... (chart is for England, I've extrapolated a peak of 350k for England to justify a claim of >400k for the wider UK)

There's a million immigrants per year and a tenth of that in new builds Now do the math

reedf1 3y ago

Yes and the prescription is even more new builds. We need immigration, we are aging.

insightful1 3y ago
Ok, bring 50 million then, and build accordingly We are aging and your argument is irrefutable
mnd999 3y ago
Right wing commentators, which is basically the whole media, like to blame immigration for all the problems in the country. It’s much simpler and less awkward for them than trying to explain what is really going on.
- insightful1 3y ago
  Immigration is demand, while supply has been sticky, prices have gone up massively. It's economics 101. But you think there's a kind of boomer conspiracy instead (ageist and racist undertones).
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    To be fair, a lot of the griping about immigration also reads to me to have racist undertones. (That could be influenced by my American reading, but it doesn't seem 100% that.)
Lastodon 3y ago
Japan is still a first world nation. The world hasn't ended for them. Can we stop pretending that having a population that isn't exponentially growing is a bad thing.
- rs999gti 3y ago
  > having a population that isn't exponentially growing is a bad thing. I want social programs, but you got to have a tax base to pay for it

lambdas 3y ago

But those immigrants are never going to earn the necessary 5%, never mind 10% for a deposit. That’s with an established stream of income. Without, the deposit would be almost 50% leaving the homes to be scooped not by immigrants but those with high capital. No immigrant is buying a home. It’s banks buying them up, landlords, foreign nationals as investments. The UK housing is a commodity worth investing with no regard to the people who need them. Something has to give.

badpun 3y ago
It’s simple economics. Immigrants want to rent houses, which increases rents, which increases rental yields, which in turn increases properties values.
nonethewiser 3y ago
They increase demand at the lower end which reduces the supply on the lower end. More-so for renting than owning, but that trends towards owning as they get established in the country. Theres no way around it. More people means less supply of housing. Canada has this same problem.
spacebanana7 3y ago
Increases in housing demand (without increases in supply) will almost always cause house price increases by pushing more marginal buyers into the buying market. Without any increase in supply, more people wanting emergency accommodation or council homes increase wait times. The person on the edge of deciding between council housing or private rental will go for the latter. The new renter will have to try and outbid other renters causing rental rates to go up. Ultimately that nudges the person on the edge of deciding between private rental and buying with a mortgage to enter the buying market and try to outbid other buyers - causing an increase in overall prices. There's suffering at each stage of this process, where high demand forces people to engage in transactions that stretch them financially. Over time many people will just 'drop out' by staying with parents or going abroad. The only real solution is to build more houses. In the 1960s the UK built >400k new homes per year [1] - enough to comfortably a million new migrants annually whilst also increasing house choice and affordability for people already resident. [1] https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1204154694051999745/photo/1 https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/12041546940519997... (chart is for England, I've extrapolated a peak of 350k for England to justify a claim of >400k for the wider UK)