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Life Is So Terrible and Beautiful at the Same Time
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Solvency 3y agoThe inability to be present has more to do with this artificially complex modern life we've engineered ourselves into, more than the trappings of our intellect. Life was far more assuring, rewarding, bountiful, and meaningful if you were living in a small Native American community in the year 1400 and millions of bison roamed the plains, and the soil was the most fertile in the world, and you had a direct, non-abstracted, immediate relationship with every person in the community around you. All of your inputs lead to physically direct outputs. And all of your biological wetware and quirks were designed and evolved to operate in this context. Hunting, foraging, moving your own body around, sleeping and waking with the sun, having non-digital relationships, eating whole foods from the earth. And it's not to say life never had its struggles. But it was certainly more biologically consistent and natural than what we've turned it into.
- mahathu 3y agoEnjoy working 12 hour days every day and eating potatoes 365 days of the year?
- lm28469 3y agoOpen literally any history book and be amazed at how far you are from reality. For the extreme vast majority of history we worked way less to sustain ourselves, certainly not the current 8 hours per day + average 100 minutes commute. The current 8 hours a day only sounds good because we had a short period of 10-12+ hours a day in mines and factories It's funny how people are so confidently incorrect and so happy to be slave to their work, almost bragging about it. I can't even wrap my head around that, some form of Stockholm syndrome perhaps https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_... https://medium.com/world-issues-politics-economics-and-more/before-the-industrial-revolution-mankind-worked-a-20-hour-week-cab974740649 https://medium.com/world-issues-politics-economics-and-more/... https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/for-95-percent-of-human-history-people-worked-15-hours-a-week-could-we-do-it-again.html https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/for-95-percent-of-human...
- hospitalJail 3y agoIgnorance is bliss? Is it better to believe in gods that will reincarnate you as a bear if you die in battle? Or is it better to have access to knowledge? Also, bad weather and praying to gods wasnt exactly input/output.
- swader999 3y agoI could go another round as a bear. Bears are awesome.
- hospitalJail 3y agoNo, you don't get to be a bear at all. That was the mysticism the clan leader tricked you into dying for him for.
- dotnet00 3y agoThis reads like the usual "appeal to nature" fallacy. If you're going to focus on things like the soil being fertile and being directly involved with your neighbors, you kinda also have to consider the complete inability to cope with storms and disease and all the social ills that were reinforced because of that tight knit community. We like to think of past life as having been the benefits of all our modern moral leanings and all our "invisible" technologies combined with idealized visions of farming fertile lands and hunting among herds of animals, but any history book makes it obvious why our ancestors struggled so hard for us to live differently. Ignoring that many of the anecdotes presented in the linked article are mostly the author projecting despair onto others, those fundamental issues of disease, old age and death, were even worse when we lived "naturally" and had stronger ties to the people we lived around.
- digging 3y agoLargely agreed. A total regression view is inaccurate and foolish. Plenty of people had shit lives before industrialization and plenty of good lives were cut short. We can't just assume "the past is better." That's wrong in many ways. However, when we look at our lives today, we can see things that are not good, and we can find ways that those things could be good. Many solutions can come from the past. Connection to our communities and investment in our environment seem to have real benefits for us an individuals, besides the systemic benefits.
- nradov 3y agoHow can solutions come from the past when we don't even have reliable information about what the past was like? Archaeological data on the lives of pre-Columbian indigenous New World peoples is extremely limited. Even much of what we think we know is probably mistaken, or at least badly distorted by modern biases.
- digging 3y agoSimple: we don't replicate the lives of past peoples. We take ideas from [our ideas of] the past and find out if they work for us. And... it doesn't need to be from indigenous New World people.
- swader999 3y agoDisease, weather, conflicts with other warring tribes. Fitting into the hierarchy, the ever present threat of banishment.
- ROTMetro 3y agoUnless you had a Crow/Sioux type situation where your tribe was being eradicated by a neighboring tribe and you had been captured and enslaved, or your clan lacked power/influence due to a low number of strong males. But sure, if you were in the top it might have been like you describe.
- ericmcer 3y agoHave fun with that. I much prefer having modern medicine, grocery stores, modern entertainment etc. Just yesterday I picked up a bunch of tacos and sat down to watch the movie Renfield with the family and I had a brief moment of awe about all the resources that are at our fingertips. I am not rich by any means but can watch one of the greatest actors in history performing on a 72inch 4k screen in my living room whenever I want. It is amazing. If you were a Native American in the 1400s you were pretty much guaranteed to die young and in a painful fashion after a very hard life.
- steve_g 3y agoI agree with you 100%. The average person now lives better than the richest kings a few hundred years ago. But I think it's funny that you use Nick Cage as an example. Not to be mean - I like him too. But it's still funny.
- ericmcer 3y agoOh yeah I was hoping someone would notice the Nick Cage greatest actor bit haha
- glitchc 3y ago> greatest actor Surely you don't mean Nicholas Cage! That title clearly belongs to John Cena.
- 31carmichael 3y agoI'll also stay in 2023, thank you. The author of the comment, "Life was far more assuring, rewarding, bountiful, and meaningful back when...... " is ignorant and cannot imagine the hardships of such a life. He's nostalgic for a life that he didn't live. You don't have to fight off a saber tooth tiger to find meaning in this life.
- iand675 3y agoI lost my 3 1/2 year old daughter to sudden illness several months ago. So many dreams left our family that day. Now it is up to those of us left behind to pick up the pieces.
- zztop44 3y agoI’m so sorry for your loss.
- braymundo 3y agoI am sorry for your loss and I hope you find the strength and meaning to carry on.
- nico 3y agoLots of love and a big hug to you I have two kids around that age. Have had some bad scares and it’s been devastating emotionally for me Hope you get lots of support Feel free to reach out (checkout my profile), if you ever want to talk, about anything really, doesn’t have to be the kids
- swader999 3y agoSo sorry, the only thing that helps is to love those left with all you have.
- RigelKentaurus 3y agoI'm extremely sorry for your loss. I do hope that you are able to pick up the pieces and somehow create a meaningful life with them.
- iamcasen 3y agoGood lord, I'm so sorry. My heart goes out to you and your family.
- glitchc 3y agoSo sorry for your loss... I cannot imagine your pain.
- aeontech 3y ago
- hospitalJail 3y agoThe author views life through the lens of a hedonist, and finds that stoicism is better to deal with the tough times. They don't use any of these terms, which makes me think they are independently coming to the same conclusion as the Stoics. Seems pretty basic. Did I miss the point?
- npinsker 3y agoNo; that’s exactly how I read it
- haswell 3y agoLife’s lessons can be learned in a myriad of ways. Stoicism resonates with many people because they find it applicable to what they’re experiencing in life, but that brings the implication with it that many people are bound to discover the same insights. This has happened since time immemorial, and ideas are reborn, repackaged, re-contextualized for a new era. Stoicism also comes loaded with shoulds and shouldn’ts as they pertain to living a “virtuous life”, and for many people, this is too close to religious dogma for comfort. Put another way, there are many people who might benefit from the ideas but would bristle at the thought of turning to something that resembles religion. But the underlying philosophical insights that can be found in stoicism can be also found across many other contemplative traditions. When reading a piece like this, I don’t find it particularly interesting to try to reduce the author’s personal discoveries to “oh that’s just <philosophy>”. Many people find the stories of others helpful because they’re less abstract and heady than a series of intellectually sound ideas that might not feel very helpful when someone is going through the shit. I’d argue that you missed the point of the piece. Knowing that stoicism (or Buddhism, etc…) exist doesn’t seem to have any bearing on the recollection of one’s personal journey. Some people are looking for a philosophy of life. Some people are just looking for comfort in knowing that others have experienced something that validates their own pain. And some people share their own journeys to make/find meaning in the pain, and it is this sharing that is more interesting than its resemblance to famous ideas.
- mahathu 3y ago[flagged]
- monero-xmr 3y ago> There’s an elderly gentleman who works at the local pharmacy store. > He’s bent over and moves slowly. His hair is uncombed and a dull vacancy lurks in his eyes. He’s always there so he must need the money. > His sadness is contagious. This drives me crazy. You don't know anything about this guy. One time I took an airport shuttle and the driver was ancient, the bus was empty and we started chatting. He loves driving the bus, he does this to stay busy, he's retired but enjoys having a purpose and talking to people (such as myself). He told me all about his kids and their careers. My point is you have absolutely no idea why anyone does anything, unless you ask them. Projecting sadness onto strangers says more about yourself than the subject.
- soneca 3y ago> ”I try to say something kind or friendly to encourage him. Sometimes he perks up momentarily, offering a half smile and faint twinkle in his eye” I bet that was the old guy disguising the annoyance of having a patronizing customer.
- jansan 3y agoTalking to those people is always great. It either gives them a way to share their problems with somebody, or you find someone who has a really interesting past and you can learn a lot. Best thing that ever happened to us was meeting a retired space engineer who worked on the Hubble telescope. My son was wearing a NASA sweater with an explosion drawing of the Hubble, and the old man explained on his shirt how the Hubble works and on what parts he had worked. I still regret that on another occation I did not talk to a man sitting next to me on a station platform. He looked exactly like a bum who had spent the previous night sleeping on the sidewalk in his own piss, but at second sight I noticed that his clothes were not only clean, but quite expensive (still looking shabby from distance), and he had a brand new expensive Rimowa suitcase. I would have loved to hear his story, but I had to catch my train.
- hospitalJail 3y agoMy dad took a terrible accounting/logistics job for $15 an hour last year.Like the whole business was completely F'd, they no longer exist today. My dad, who did programming his whole life, didn't care. He was retired, he enjoyed the interactions with humans and the problems he was solving. He probably was providing $60+/hr of value since he would automate it. If you saw a grey'd dude that is absurdly skinny drag himself into an office(He hated the commute, he always hates driving), you'd think he was miserable. No, he was happy to be there, he just doesnt like driving.
- bannedbybros 3y ago[dead]
- yboris 3y agoFor the Russian speakers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IqT6O_qvE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IqT6O_qvE
- aantix 3y ago> Social boundaries trumped my compassionate instinct. I think he should have at least asked if she needed a hug. Feels like that would have been a nice way to honor his instinct and her boundaries at the same time. She may have at least appreciated the sentiment. Or she would have take him up on that offer and embraced his embrace. Either way, it seems like a positive.
- gadflyinyoureye 3y agoIt is weird when people let go of themselves when asked this question. I was in line for a TSA check. Latin woman in front of me had a hard mobile call (I don't speak Spanish, but I got the gist). I asked her is she was ok. 5 minutes of crying and Spanish. I gave her little side hugs and listened with compassion. It was a rather odd experience.
- lordleft 3y agoSomething about this essay reminds me of a line from Stanley Lombardo’s translation of the Iliad: “It was glorious to see—if your heart were iron, And you could keep from grieving at all the pain.“
- tracerbulletx 3y agoI think it's fair to say most things are not black and white, or gray. They're some kind of high dimensional noise function with clusters and gradients of every possible shade.
- rullelito 3y agoI believe the net, pleasure minus pain, on earth is hugely negative.
- aftoprokrustes 3y agoSo much of how difficult suffering is comes from how we relate to it. I have one close relative diagnosed with incurable cancer, just one year after we lost his wife to another type of cancer, after a difficult 2 years long fight. I learned a lot about relating to death and suffering in the process. I am very influenced by buddhist thought, and used to be of the idea that the beat way to react to a relatives death was to meditate on the lack of independent reality of the self, and on the inevitability of death. I also used to think that the "skillful" reaction would be equanimity, total and calm acceptance of what happened. But when trying it, it felt very wrong. What changes a lot is to learn to accept the suffering, and learn to relate to it from a position of humility and openness. What I found is that, if suffering sometimes lessens in the process, it does not need to be, and even when it stays stable or grows, the shift in perspective can be incredibly freeing. For instance, one might feel powerless and angry at the world that made a relative sick, and at the medical system that failed to give an appointment on time and thus allowed the cancer to grow too much, etc. Just trying to be equanimous, to "letting it go", to see it as delusion feels very disrespectful and unhelpful. But by opening to it, sometimes the pain and anger are not "my" anger anymore, but universal love expressing itself through me, an expression of something bigger. Here is some material that guided me through this process: "A Buddhist grief observed" by Guy Newland. Pretty much describes the confusion I describe above. "Being with dying" from Joan Halifax. Here, it is a buddhist hospice worker who explains how Buddhist teachings help her in her relation with the dying. Finally, the teachings of Rob Burbea. He was a buddhiat teacher whom we lost in 2019 to cancer, and whose philosophy shifted over the years from a very interesting take on insight meditation towards a spirituality of reenchantment and meaning searching/making. Hearing his latest talks, which he was recording for hours from his bedroom between chemotherapy sessions, where he describes how he relates to his own dying is incredibly inspiring (and I am pretty much in love with the whole of his teachings).