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> When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities .... And you forgot the knee-jerk reactions f

> When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities .... And you forgot the knee-jerk reactions from the left, which reduced itself to a role of a spectator with the index finger raised and perpetually shouting "no, you can't do that"- applied to just anything he said or did [1]. I have seen the same with Trump. Some part of the population (including me) can't really stand the perpetually scandalised, self-appointed guardians of good manners, and will become disgusted by both sides equally. 1) for example, once he dared to say "it would be better to consult a second doctor before undergoing a risky or debilitating surgical procedure"- that apparently was a scandal, too.

atq2119 3y ago
> And you forgot the knee-jerk reactions from the left, [...] Some part of the population (including me) can't really stand the perpetually scandalised, self-appointed guardians of good manners, This had me nodding along. > and will become disgusted by both sides equally. This is the part that makes you, or perhaps just that part of you, a bad person. You are equating somebody who actually abused power and brought the world closer to an authoritarian strongman dystopia to people who, by your own description, are mostly ineffective and don't actually do anything. (I can sometimes feel a knee jerk reaction that feels a bit like what you're describing, but I would never be proud of it, and I think it's important to be clear on that point.)
- throw310822 3y ago
  > You are equating somebody who actually abused power and brought the world closer to an authoritarian strongman dystopia to people who, by your own description, are mostly ineffective and don't actually do anything. I didn't say that they were ineffective: they were actually eroding the trust on their side by exaggerating and misinterpreting as much as they could, mixing up good and bad reasons; also, I feel that there is a germ of authoritarianism in people who are constantly complaining of others violating rules, including the unwritten ones and the plainly made up ones. As for the other side, from one hand I think that Berlusconi was not as bad or dangerous as Trump (aside from completely different relevance for the world); otoh, I have seen enough demonization in Italy during the Berlusconi years to understand that at least some of what Trump was accused of had to be an exaggeration.
pjc50 3y ago
People would rather be in complicity with bad behavior than admit the left has a point. > once he dared to say "it would be better to consult a second doctor before undergoing a risky or debilitating surgical procedure" Do you suppose you could supply the context for this? I mean, I can guess, it's obvious, but I think it also matters for the discussion?
- throw310822 3y ago
  He had been prescribed some major surgery, but got a second opinion and found out it wasn't necessary and/ or it had been prescribed in error. He was sharing his experience and providing some sort of general advice.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    And why was this a scandal? It's not very googleable (partly because the news of him dying is all over the search results)
    - throw310822 3y ago
      Politicians from the left criticised him for giving an advice ("get an opinion from a second doctor") that they deemed a privilege unaffordable for poor people.
timeon 3y ago
This seems like typical victim of populists marketing. No meter what populists have done, trying to shift the focus with "everybody is against me" and some people will eat it.

atq2119 3y ago

> And you forgot the knee-jerk reactions from the left, [...] Some part of the population (including me) can't really stand the perpetually scandalised, self-appointed guardians of good manners, This had me nodding along. > and will become disgusted by both sides equally. This is the part that makes you, or perhaps just that part of you, a bad person. You are equating somebody who actually abused power and brought the world closer to an authoritarian strongman dystopia to people who, by your own description, are mostly ineffective and don't actually do anything. (I can sometimes feel a knee jerk reaction that feels a bit like what you're describing, but I would never be proud of it, and I think it's important to be clear on that point.)

throw310822 3y ago
> You are equating somebody who actually abused power and brought the world closer to an authoritarian strongman dystopia to people who, by your own description, are mostly ineffective and don't actually do anything. I didn't say that they were ineffective: they were actually eroding the trust on their side by exaggerating and misinterpreting as much as they could, mixing up good and bad reasons; also, I feel that there is a germ of authoritarianism in people who are constantly complaining of others violating rules, including the unwritten ones and the plainly made up ones. As for the other side, from one hand I think that Berlusconi was not as bad or dangerous as Trump (aside from completely different relevance for the world); otoh, I have seen enough demonization in Italy during the Berlusconi years to understand that at least some of what Trump was accused of had to be an exaggeration.

pjc50 3y ago

People would rather be in complicity with bad behavior than admit the left has a point. > once he dared to say "it would be better to consult a second doctor before undergoing a risky or debilitating surgical procedure" Do you suppose you could supply the context for this? I mean, I can guess, it's obvious, but I think it also matters for the discussion?

throw310822 3y ago
He had been prescribed some major surgery, but got a second opinion and found out it wasn't necessary and/ or it had been prescribed in error. He was sharing his experience and providing some sort of general advice.
- pjc50 3y ago
  And why was this a scandal? It's not very googleable (partly because the news of him dying is all over the search results)
  - throw310822 3y ago
    Politicians from the left criticised him for giving an advice ("get an opinion from a second doctor") that they deemed a privilege unaffordable for poor people.

timeon 3y ago

This seems like typical victim of populists marketing. No meter what populists have done, trying to shift the focus with "everybody is against me" and some people will eat it.