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Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86
- lakomen 3y agoWow, this is surprising. From what I gathered, since this link is behind a paywall, he had leukemia.
- bilekas 3y agoThis is really sad actually. Whatever you think about him, you can't deny he lived life to the maximum!
- ackbar03 3y agobunga bunga
- badcppdev 3y agoI feel that there are ways of "living life to the maximum" which should be applauded and then there is a way that impacts negatively on other people and society in general. To quote an opinion article[0], "he faced prosecution more than 30 times on charges including embezzlement, false accounting and bribing a judge. Many cases failed to go to trial, sometimes because Berlusconi changed the law under which he had been charged." 0 - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/berlusconi-death-legacy-loss-of-faith-in-italy-political-elite https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/berlusconi-dea...
- martopix 3y agoI actually think these kinds of people live a pretty unhappy life.
- richardfey 3y agoFor sure: imagine the mind games all the time, with everyone in and outside your family, just because they're targeting your humongous wealth.
- richardfey 3y agoEh, why the downvotes?
- pjc50 3y agoThe trouble with having your own personal prostitution harem is that eventually it turns out that some of the girls are (a) under 18 and (b) coerced. Berlusconi was his own Epstein, and that is what ultimately did him in rather than any of the other misconduct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi_prostitution_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi_prostitution...
- boudin 3y agoThe only sad thing about his death is that he managed to escape proper justice his whole life.
- hulitu 3y agoA lot of politicians do this. They make the law.
- boeingUH60 3y agoEveryone has a different definition of living like to the maximum. For one person, it’s having lots of money and your personal harem like Berlusconi. For another, it’s spending time with kids and grandkids. For another, it’s playing video games all day!
- monodeldiablo 3y agoOnly if you define "the maximum" as a 14 year old narcissist boy's fantasies. He didn't really get to know the joys of adventure or a loving relationship. By all accounts, his life was actually pretty empty, a hole he tried to fill with material objects and anonymous sex.
- cente 3y agoNot sad at all, in fact the opposite
- hunglee2 3y agoTrump before Trump - Silivio Berlusconi was maybe the first of the modern populists - a political outsider who used celebrity status and media influence to enter the halls of power, and then proceeded to denigrate the establishment at every opportunity. It's a serious matter that this type of personality finds political favour amongst the people, and that our current systems of governance allow for unserious characters of this type to become paramount leader of an entire country. More of this type to come. Tucker Carlson for President? Jake Paul? Wouldn't bet against either or worse
- fatfingerd 3y agoIn history classes in the US, Mussolini is often cast as a minor sidekick of Hitler, but Hitler was following in Mussolini's footsteps but had much greater military capabilities. If history is an indicator then it is hard to exaggerate how bad a new populist strategy originating from Italy may end up being once it infects other nations.
- gpderetta 3y agoI'm still surprised that the Comedian-bootstrapped Internet-driven populist party idea hasn't taken a foothold in other countries.
- pjc50 3y agoArguably that's the Trump version (although he was a gameshow host rather than a comedian).
- gpderetta 3y agoTrump followed the rich tycoon playbook of Berlusconi, I think. He also did work within the framework of existing politics. Grillo wasn't particularly rich and bootstrapped a new party through his internet reach. Although it is possible that Casaleggio was the real mastermind behind it.
- martopix 3y agoFor those who did not grow up like me in Berlusconi's Italy, he was an interesting character and in many ways a precursor of today's politics. When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities, a tendency to go against well established rules, personal attacks on opponents, an admiration for strongmen (Berlusconi had a clear crush on Putin), tax creativity, laws purposefully written for himself and his friends, and of course exploiting partisan news outlets. Berlusconi's career took a turn when he developed Mediaset to be a large TV company that could compete with national public TV, and still does, while offering a load of trash to the public. He was many times under investigation, sometimes convicted without ever going to jail, and many times exploiting the statute of limitations to avoid conviction by dragging the trial along for years. His party was essentially founded upon him and his personality, and is currently one of the parties in the government coalition, with a relatively minor share, I expect voted by older people nostalgic of his era. We will not miss him -- but in hindsight we have seen even worse characters in the last 10 years.
- peterfirefly 3y agoWhat many people outside of Italy don't understand is how crazy the left side of politics in Italy was (and still is). Italy had a looong period (that arguably hasn't ended yet) in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. I didn't have any positive expectations when she became PM but she seems to be doing ok.
- lultimouomo 3y agoYou can easily dislike the Italian left for a number of reasons, but being commies is definitely not one of them.
- gsatic 3y agoThinking about it...the left doesn't seem to have entrepreneurs in political leadership positions. Can't think of anyone World over.
- jll29 3y agoBerlusconi was said to have had ties to organized crime, going back to his time as a real estate lawyer. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/04/silvio-berlusconi-linked-mafia-court https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/04/silvio-berlusc...
- cinntaile 3y agoAren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common in Italy?
- datadeft 3y agoAren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common?
- paganel 3y agoLike the recent Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon getting arrested a couple of days ago (and released, for the time being).
- flir 3y agoMafia? Sturgeon? Are you serious?
- hbbio 3y agoAmounts for Sturgeon are indeed so low. For 100s of millions, I'd rather look at us politicians ("Democrats") that trade stock and receive large paychecks from corporations... In exchange of what exactly?
- mathieuh 3y agoSeems like a fairly straightforward misappropriation of party funds at this point, I don't think there's any suggestion she was playing around with taxpayer money
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- fatfingerd 3y agoRIP Ruby.
- mschuster91 3y agoOne of the very few people whom it's not worth shedding tears over. The sheer destruction Berlusconi brought upon his country and democracy at large is unimaginable. Berlusconi was the pioneer of modern populism, of all of it. Corruption, embezzlement, buying up or otherwise controlling media for manipulating or influencing coverage, being involved in so many scandals that it became completely impossible to track their progress or to discuss/demand consequences... you name it, Berlusconi invented it. (Presumably) having sex with (close to) underage women and girls and having extramarital affairs in general was just the cherry on the cake (the Bunga Bunga affair). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi_prostitution_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi_prostitution...
- richardfey 3y agoYou forgot buying judges and (financial) police officers
- Ekaros 3y agoHow can you ever trust judicial system when even the top people got their position from the rotten people... Why would any of them bite the hand that got them their position and possibly in future a higher position. Everyone is corrupted and rotten.
- gpderetta 3y agoTo be fair many of those he surrounded with, including his second in command Dell'Utri, did end up in jail with extremely serious convictions like Mafia conspiracy and corruption of Judges. But he personally managed to change enough laws, delay trials, and keep enough plausible deniability to avoid the charges to stick.
- richardfey 3y agoI think it's more subtle than that: there's an already highly inefficient system in place and then delaying or swaying procedures becomes easier and less traceable. This is where cronyism flourishes; but it's far from a hierarchical direct favour relationship and more akin to a network or web.
- casenmgreen 3y agoIt's a terrible thing to say this of a man, or someone who has died, but thank God. I mean, it might well by the end he was been pretty aged in his mind and was being used or fooled or had lost the plot : his comments about Ukraine were staggering, appalling aberrations you never want to hear from someone with considerable public stature in any country.
- braymundo 3y agoI don’t feel bad at all. He should be judged by his words and actions. I’ll celebrate shamelessly when putin dies.
- subhumanssuck 3y ago[dead]
- ttyprintk 3y agoHis catchphrase, “sono stato frainteso,” gets to live on as an excuse for inaction and deceit. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/04/the-similarities-between-trump-and-berlusconi-are-much-deeper-than-you-think.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/04/the-similarities...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- intellectronica 3y agoTo his credit it has to be said that he saved the Italian tax payer a lot of money on funeral costs by undergoing embalmment at his own expense while still alive.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoNah he's still gonna find a way to bilk the state even in death
- veave 3y ago
- thepangolino 3y agoOne of the last giants, signing the end of an era. While not perfect, like anyone, he marked both Italian and European politics of his singular approach and proverbial ball. Politics now are becoming much more dull and suffering of a lack of vision.
- lamedkuc 3y ago[flagged]
- seydor 3y agoIt's unbelievable how long the reign of this generation of politicians was and still is today. It will also never be repeated in the future, thankfully.
- Ekaros 3y agoActually when you look at previous one or one before that those were quite extreme in many places in Europe. We are talking about decades. I would not be surprised if history repeats itself.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- classified 3y agoGood riddance. Why do the worst of them always live the longest?
- cente 3y agoAs an Italian, tonight we'll celebrate. The champagne has been sitting in the fridge for a few months.
- irthomasthomas 3y agoWe foreigners judge Berlusconi on our own moral framework. But Italy is not like most other countries: "Italy breathed a sigh of relief today upon learning that the country's highest court of appeal had ruled that influence-peddling is not a crime. The only punishable offense, the judges decided, is overstating one's power to exert influence. ''Essentially, the judges are saying what everybody in Italy believes: It is not a crime, as long as you do it well,'' Franco Ferrarotti, an Italian sociologist said of the Wednesday ruling on ''raccomandazione,'' the Italian custom of seeking and receiving special treatment from people in power, or close to it. ''This is our version of the Protestant ethic,'' Mr. Ferrarotti said. ''When a favor works successfully, it ceases to be a crime and becomes a work of art.'' https://web.archive.org/web/20201112040914/http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/20/world/rome-journal-official-favors-oil-that-makes-italy-go-round.html https://web.archive.org/web/20201112040914/http://www.nytime... In 2001, British author and physician Theodore Dalrymple argued that corruption is actually the "one saving grace" of Italian public administration. Dalrymple explained his view that Italy's government was overburdened with an inefficient bureaucracy that slows down any progress but that corruption and bribery to bypass roadblocks allows for some progress to be made.[31] Dalrymple further maintained that the open display of corruption on the part of government officials causes Italian citizens to view the government as the 'enemy', an attitude that Dalrymple considered sensible and healthy, as compared with the misguided British belief that the state is purely good. This belief, Dalrymple charged, "has completely eroded the proud and sturdy independence of the British population." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Italy# https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Italy#
- me_me_me 3y ago>In 2001, British author and physician Theodore Dalrymple argued that corruption is actually the "one saving grace" of Italian public administration. Dalrymple explained his view that Italy's government was overburdened with an inefficient bureaucracy that slows down any progress but that corruption and bribery to bypass roadblocks allows for some progress to be made.[31] I have a friend who grew up in Italy, he emigrated for university and worked abroad. He came back in his late 30s, bought house. The usual deal when 'coming back'. He hates the corruption. Its happening at every level of public interaction, starting from local communities, all the way up. He made a decision that after 3 years he is sick and tiered of it and will be moving out of Italy for good. Corruption is always bad as it propagates and rewards the people who are most of the time most ill-suited for the position of trust they are holding. Saying corruption is a blessing for over-bureaucratic and inefficient systems is like saying that cutting of a hand that is broken is a good solutions because hospitals overcrowded and underfunded.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y agoAs an Italian-American I find comments in this thread very very distasteful. I am not a Berlusconi fan, and am disgusted by politics in general, but this guy was basically a JFK who got to live till 86 years old. Corruption and ties with the organized crime? Those were the bread and butter for the Kennedy family, that's how he stole Illinois , how his dad made money with the contraband etc. and yet given that he took the bullet in Dallas and signed off the Apollo program everybody should get on their knees and genuflect and pay respects to the big man. Airports and roads and everything entitled to the memory of the dude, but hey Berlusconi is an olive oil drinking devil and so we ought to celebrate his death, right? The American melting-pot is an extraordinary feat but as long as Americans will keep treating other countries who made up the same melting pot with a different set of standards there will always be tensions. It is a melting pot but most people don't like insults to their country of origin and double standards for 2 identical political leaders just because one was born within the limits of the invisible border and has the Bald Eagle on the Passport.
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi