10 ms·

“the aggregate thermodynamics of what is happening [...] is staggering”

89 points by throwaway5752 3y ago

throwaway5752 3y ago
From https://twitter.com/WxNB_/status/1667935251547521028 https://twitter.com/WxNB_/status/1667935251547521028 "I’ve never been more depressed looking at graphs. This year has already entered uncharted territory in many key respects, and the upcoming El Niño will only make matters worse. We’re not ready for what’s coming."
- defrost 3y ago
  "I'm not depressed by the graphs. I'm depressed by the indifference for the best of us, and outright denial by many that will just keep their heads down." https://twitter.com/LeonardLanglois/status/1667966837731016704 https://twitter.com/LeonardLanglois/status/16679668377310167...
  - explaininjs 3y ago
    “I’m not depressed because of the data, I’m depressed because other people aren’t depressed” Wish these people could get a grip on themselves. Living in a constant state of depression because you’re scared of the future climate is the definition of putting the cart before the horse.
    - Kbelicius 3y ago
      What is the horse here?
      - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
        I assume their own life. As in their own well being during their time on this planet. Don’t ricochet me with downvotes, I’m simply trying to answer that particular question.
      - explaininjs 3y ago
        Father Time. Cart is Mother Earth of course. We’re so incomprehensibly blessed to be able to experience this momentary oasis of beauty, but people will ignore it all in favor of mentally fast forwarding themselves into a state of imaginative terror. That’s not to say disregard the environment entirely, but rather: cherish every moment you have with it, do what you can to help where you can (mainly: dramatically reduce consumption), and encourage others to do the same.
        marssaxman 3y ago
        > We’re so incomprehensibly blessed to be able to experience this momentary oasis of beauty, but people will ignore it all in favor of mentally fast forwarding themselves into a state of imaginative terror. Who is ignoring anything? The terror comes from the contrast between one's keen personal awareness of the precious and fragile nature of this "oasis of beauty", and the systematically reckless, violent disregard humanity as a whole shows toward it.
    - tucnak 3y ago
      Yeah this kind of outlook cannot be healthy.
    - crote 3y ago
      No, people are scared about the climate NOW. Over the past few years the daily lives of many hundreds of millions of people has started to become impacted by climate change. Things have noticeably gotten worse. People aren't depressed about something which could potentially happen about some point in the future, people are depressed about something that is actively happening right now - and only getting worse.
      - mcv 3y ago
        The tweet in question isn't so much depressed about what's happening, but about what's not happening: the fact that a lot of people are still not taking this seriously, and nothing is being done to address this.
      - explaininjs 3y ago
        Show me something so terrible now as to overshadow the incomprehensible beauty of our existence on Mother Earth and I’ll show you an anxious/obsessive/depressive neurosis. No one’s going to be around forever, might as well enjoy it while you’re here. Being depressed benefits nobody, least of all the environment.
      - kranke155 3y ago
        Wildfires in Portugal have been out of control for almost a decade. The country has been in a technical drought situation for the past 6-8 years I think. This year there wasn’t enough water so a lot of small gourmet olive oil producers were not able to sell any stock. The fantasy of not being worried only exists in cities I think and it’s totally divorced from what’s happening in food production. Ask any farmer in southern Europe if they’re worried they’ll tell you they were worried 10 years ago.
    - specialist 3y ago
      I'm scared of the climate present, terrified of the climate future. Anything less than panic is irrational. Fortunately, I have David Roberts' Volts podcast talking me off the ledge. He covers many of the efforts to build our fossil fuel free economy. Most are super clever. Cat nip for hackers. Highest recommendation. https://www.volts.wtf https://www.volts.wtf
      - explaininjs 3y ago
        > Anything less than {fear so strong as to prevent reason and logical thinking} is irrational That’s an impressively eloquent caricaturization of the neurosis. Being able to state it so plainly leaves me to wonder if you’re being facetious about the whole thing. > Panic in social psychology is considered infectious since it can spread to a multitude of people and those affected are expected to act irrationally as a consequence. Indeed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic
        specialist 3y ago
        Just another round in the age old struggle between Empiricists and Rationalists. Today's labels for same are the reality-based community vs concern trolls.
andrewstuart 3y ago
What does this mean?
- quenix 3y ago
  big scary graphs without context
  - mcv 3y ago
    The graphs tell you what they're about. Temperature this year is at the very top of recent years, probably another hottest year ever, and a full degree above the 1978-2000 average. Wildfires in Canada are just insane right now. Way, way more than previous years this time of the year. North Atlantic temperature is way higher than any previous year. Antarctic sea ice is lower than ever. All of these are signs that climate change is getting worse and worse. And stuff is likely to get worse in the coming years. And if we don't do anything to dramatically reduce CO2 emissions, it's going to get even worse after that. We do have the ability to turn this around, but we clearly lack the political will to do so. And the longer we wait, the worse it will get.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    If you can read and count the graphs are ok actually
  - toss1 3y ago
    Nice, a technical-content-free comment attempting to distract from and diminish the message. Not only that, it is dead wrong (at least to anyone who actually reads any of the graphs). The graphs themselves do an excellent job of providing the relevant context — they show decades of previous context, with the current year highlighted. The context of the past decades is literally the point of how the graphs were designed. The titles on the graphs also further describe the context - "..temperature anomaly", "...ice extent anomaly". The consequences of burning eons worth of stored hydrocarbons in a few decades are upon us. But attitudes like this are literally part of the problem.
- dr_dshiv 3y ago
  It means we’d better start figuring out solar radiation management technologies because our inadvertent geoengineering is causing a rapid increase in global heating.
BasedAnon 3y ago
[flagged]
avisser 3y ago
Is there any reason I shouldn't be for climate engineering (e.g. spreading sulfates into the atmosphere) today? In my mind, that has moved quickly from, "We probably shouldn't due to unexpected consequences" to "We should've started a few years ago".
- mcv 3y ago
  Those unexpected consequences could also cause serious problems, and nobody wants to be held responsible for that. If a storm destroys your home because of climate change caused by 8 billion people, it's hard to hold anyone accountable. But if your home is destroyed because one organisation decided to block out the sun, suddenly someone is responsible.
  - avisser 3y ago
    I understand that it's a tragedy of the commons for how we got here. To clarify, I think you're saying fear of reprisal is why we haven't seen intentional climate engineering. I don't think you're saying it's immoral or a bad idea.
    - mcv 3y ago
      Yeah, I'm not saying it's immoral or a bad idea, I'm saying it's legally very complicated. It could be a bad idea, of course. It could also be the only solution that's fast enough. And not doing anything is also a bad idea. But not doing anything is at least legally uncomplicated. Though I have heard of one geo-engineering experiment: seeding a piece of ocean with iron or iron oxide, which caused an algae bloom, which caused a spike in the number of salmon in the area. The idea is that the algae bloom absorbs a lot of CO2. But the person behind it didn't have any permission for this experiment and was widely criticised for being irresponsible. I hope scientists paid attention to the results, though.
    - throwaway5752 3y ago
      Since almost all life on earth derives from photosynthesis, reducing insolation is very risky. Anyone that confidently asserts how it works suffers from not being informed enough to be worried. If humanity start doing releasing SO2 to reduce insolation, but not reducing atmospheric greenhouse gas levels, then the climate would be a coiled spring. CO2 sequestration operates on decade or century timeframes and SO2 released into the upper atmosphere is removed from the atmosphere in weeks to years. If humanity kept releasing CO2 and other greenhouse gases at current rates, but couldn't continue releasing SO2 for some reason, speaking plainly, we would be all be truly fucked in a very short period of time. It is immoral and and a bad idea. We can get to carbon targets to solve this issue instead like scientists dedicated to this problem have been consistently saying for decades, but the USA's wealth derives from oil and excessive driving. So we are lied to and told that it isn't feasible.

89 points by throwaway5752 3y ago

From https://twitter.com/WxNB_/status/1667935251547521028 https://twitter.com/WxNB_/status/1667935251547521028 "I’ve never been more depressed looking at graphs. This year has already entered uncharted territory in many key respects, and the upcoming El Niño will only make matters worse. We’re not ready for what’s coming."

defrost 3y ago
"I'm not depressed by the graphs. I'm depressed by the indifference for the best of us, and outright denial by many that will just keep their heads down." https://twitter.com/LeonardLanglois/status/1667966837731016704 https://twitter.com/LeonardLanglois/status/16679668377310167...
- explaininjs 3y ago
  “I’m not depressed because of the data, I’m depressed because other people aren’t depressed” Wish these people could get a grip on themselves. Living in a constant state of depression because you’re scared of the future climate is the definition of putting the cart before the horse.
  - Kbelicius 3y ago
    What is the horse here?
    - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
      I assume their own life. As in their own well being during their time on this planet. Don’t ricochet me with downvotes, I’m simply trying to answer that particular question.
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      Father Time. Cart is Mother Earth of course. We’re so incomprehensibly blessed to be able to experience this momentary oasis of beauty, but people will ignore it all in favor of mentally fast forwarding themselves into a state of imaginative terror. That’s not to say disregard the environment entirely, but rather: cherish every moment you have with it, do what you can to help where you can (mainly: dramatically reduce consumption), and encourage others to do the same.
      - marssaxman 3y ago
        > We’re so incomprehensibly blessed to be able to experience this momentary oasis of beauty, but people will ignore it all in favor of mentally fast forwarding themselves into a state of imaginative terror. Who is ignoring anything? The terror comes from the contrast between one's keen personal awareness of the precious and fragile nature of this "oasis of beauty", and the systematically reckless, violent disregard humanity as a whole shows toward it.
  - tucnak 3y ago
    Yeah this kind of outlook cannot be healthy.
  - crote 3y ago
    No, people are scared about the climate NOW. Over the past few years the daily lives of many hundreds of millions of people has started to become impacted by climate change. Things have noticeably gotten worse. People aren't depressed about something which could potentially happen about some point in the future, people are depressed about something that is actively happening right now - and only getting worse.
    - mcv 3y ago
      The tweet in question isn't so much depressed about what's happening, but about what's not happening: the fact that a lot of people are still not taking this seriously, and nothing is being done to address this.
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      Show me something so terrible now as to overshadow the incomprehensible beauty of our existence on Mother Earth and I’ll show you an anxious/obsessive/depressive neurosis. No one’s going to be around forever, might as well enjoy it while you’re here. Being depressed benefits nobody, least of all the environment.
    - kranke155 3y ago
      Wildfires in Portugal have been out of control for almost a decade. The country has been in a technical drought situation for the past 6-8 years I think. This year there wasn’t enough water so a lot of small gourmet olive oil producers were not able to sell any stock. The fantasy of not being worried only exists in cities I think and it’s totally divorced from what’s happening in food production. Ask any farmer in southern Europe if they’re worried they’ll tell you they were worried 10 years ago.
  - specialist 3y ago
    I'm scared of the climate present, terrified of the climate future. Anything less than panic is irrational. Fortunately, I have David Roberts' Volts podcast talking me off the ledge. He covers many of the efforts to build our fossil fuel free economy. Most are super clever. Cat nip for hackers. Highest recommendation. https://www.volts.wtf https://www.volts.wtf
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      > Anything less than {fear so strong as to prevent reason and logical thinking} is irrational That’s an impressively eloquent caricaturization of the neurosis. Being able to state it so plainly leaves me to wonder if you’re being facetious about the whole thing. > Panic in social psychology is considered infectious since it can spread to a multitude of people and those affected are expected to act irrationally as a consequence. Indeed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic
      - specialist 3y ago
        Just another round in the age old struggle between Empiricists and Rationalists. Today's labels for same are the reality-based community vs concern trolls.

andrewstuart 3y ago

What does this mean?

quenix 3y ago
big scary graphs without context
- mcv 3y ago
  The graphs tell you what they're about. Temperature this year is at the very top of recent years, probably another hottest year ever, and a full degree above the 1978-2000 average. Wildfires in Canada are just insane right now. Way, way more than previous years this time of the year. North Atlantic temperature is way higher than any previous year. Antarctic sea ice is lower than ever. All of these are signs that climate change is getting worse and worse. And stuff is likely to get worse in the coming years. And if we don't do anything to dramatically reduce CO2 emissions, it's going to get even worse after that. We do have the ability to turn this around, but we clearly lack the political will to do so. And the longer we wait, the worse it will get.
- lm28469 3y ago
  If you can read and count the graphs are ok actually
- toss1 3y ago
  Nice, a technical-content-free comment attempting to distract from and diminish the message. Not only that, it is dead wrong (at least to anyone who actually reads any of the graphs). The graphs themselves do an excellent job of providing the relevant context — they show decades of previous context, with the current year highlighted. The context of the past decades is literally the point of how the graphs were designed. The titles on the graphs also further describe the context - "..temperature anomaly", "...ice extent anomaly". The consequences of burning eons worth of stored hydrocarbons in a few decades are upon us. But attitudes like this are literally part of the problem.
dr_dshiv 3y ago
It means we’d better start figuring out solar radiation management technologies because our inadvertent geoengineering is causing a rapid increase in global heating.

BasedAnon 3y ago

[flagged]

avisser 3y ago

Is there any reason I shouldn't be for climate engineering (e.g. spreading sulfates into the atmosphere) today? In my mind, that has moved quickly from, "We probably shouldn't due to unexpected consequences" to "We should've started a few years ago".

mcv 3y ago
Those unexpected consequences could also cause serious problems, and nobody wants to be held responsible for that. If a storm destroys your home because of climate change caused by 8 billion people, it's hard to hold anyone accountable. But if your home is destroyed because one organisation decided to block out the sun, suddenly someone is responsible.
- avisser 3y ago
  I understand that it's a tragedy of the commons for how we got here. To clarify, I think you're saying fear of reprisal is why we haven't seen intentional climate engineering. I don't think you're saying it's immoral or a bad idea.
  - mcv 3y ago
    Yeah, I'm not saying it's immoral or a bad idea, I'm saying it's legally very complicated. It could be a bad idea, of course. It could also be the only solution that's fast enough. And not doing anything is also a bad idea. But not doing anything is at least legally uncomplicated. Though I have heard of one geo-engineering experiment: seeding a piece of ocean with iron or iron oxide, which caused an algae bloom, which caused a spike in the number of salmon in the area. The idea is that the algae bloom absorbs a lot of CO2. But the person behind it didn't have any permission for this experiment and was widely criticised for being irresponsible. I hope scientists paid attention to the results, though.
  - throwaway5752 3y ago
    Since almost all life on earth derives from photosynthesis, reducing insolation is very risky. Anyone that confidently asserts how it works suffers from not being informed enough to be worried. If humanity start doing releasing SO2 to reduce insolation, but not reducing atmospheric greenhouse gas levels, then the climate would be a coiled spring. CO2 sequestration operates on decade or century timeframes and SO2 released into the upper atmosphere is removed from the atmosphere in weeks to years. If humanity kept releasing CO2 and other greenhouse gases at current rates, but couldn't continue releasing SO2 for some reason, speaking plainly, we would be all be truly fucked in a very short period of time. It is immoral and and a bad idea. We can get to carbon targets to solve this issue instead like scientists dedicated to this problem have been consistently saying for decades, but the USA's wealth derives from oil and excessive driving. So we are lied to and told that it isn't feasible.