8 ms·

> You'd need a bunch of dangs to mod every conceivable interest group, like soccer and German politics. People forget that reddit was popular and succeeded dur

> You'd need a bunch of dangs to mod every conceivable interest group, like soccer and German politics. People forget that reddit was popular and succeeded during the digg migration because it was pro free speech and minimally moderated. It was one of the reasons people migrated to reddit instead of here. The first 10 years of reddit, the community and the company prided themselves on being a "free speech platform." It was explicitly stated on the reddit website. The selling point of reddit back in the day was that it was not censored like HN! It's amazing how censorship created a pro-censorship mentality in just a few short years.

lordnacho 3y ago
But you at least need someone to clean up spam? Not sure whether there was a forum spamming business back then, but there certainly is now.
- oilchange 3y ago
  Yes. Subs had moderators and they got rid of spam, but that was about it. The mods themselves were heavily pro free speech just like the founders and corporate. Back then, reddit was predominatly american and we all adopted the free speech as an ideal. Then as reddit gained a larger foreign following, they slowly chipped away at free speech. It's pretty much what happened to social media and the internet in general. The prononents of internet censorship are canadians, brits, europeans, middle easterners, indians, chinese, etc. After all, the only place "hate speech" is protected is in the US. If you think about it, you have to protect "hate speech" if you are to have free speech. You can't have free speech without "hate speech". The idea of censoring "hate speech" is an alien concept in america. It was imported from abroad.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    > Then as reddit gained a larger foreign following, they slowly chipped away at free speech. I don't think so. I would rather say Reddit made Trump president, so the US establishment got pissed off. Then Reddit appeases them.
- TJSomething 3y ago
  The neat thing is that Reddit is community moderated. Each community is allowed to set their own standards, but they also need to clean up their own spam. So, /r/science doesn't allow any jokes at all while /r/Antiwork bans anything that's pro-corporation. But several times, mostly when the controversy got too hot, the admins have killed subreddits, like /r/The_Donald, /r/incels, and /r/FatPeopleHate.
twelve40 3y ago
> it was not censored like HN! I don't feel like HN is censored. Does anyone think HN is censored? dang steps in mostly with technical edits or to break up a particularly nasty fight once in a while, can this really be called censorship? of course, you can take a karma hit from other people, but reddit always had that as well.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Agreed, especially compared to modern Reddit, HN is a free speech haven.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - nwienert 3y ago
    It's super heavily moderated here. Reddit is heavily moderated too, but there you can get into an argument, and it depends on the subreddit. Here the tone policing is far, far stricter. Also the homepage is incredibly tightly controlled, politically and pro-YC. I've seen many articles on YC companies or associated people changed, removed, etc despite being highly relevant. Titles are changed to suit the mods tastes here. There was a good recent example where a very negative article on OpenAI skyrocketed the the top of the homepage, fastest rising post ever with a few hundred upvotes within like an hour - first the title was completely neutered, then the post was removed entirely.
    - dotnet00 3y ago
      The difference is that here I've been able to see many opinions expressed and given a fair shake which would've resulted in a ban on most of Reddit. The title moderation also helps with keeping them neutral and/or informative (biased titles set the tone of the conversation). The tone policing is far stricter, but the actual content policing is a lot less absurd. The result is that controversial topics and opinions don't result in as much of a toxic cesspool of name calling. On top of all that, here you can enable the display of deleted and flagged comments.
TX81Z 3y ago
They shut down a sub called “jailbait”, I’d say the vast majority of people are ok with that type of “censorship”. And if being against that disgusting trash makes me “pro-censorship”, fine.
- lkt 3y ago
  That wasn't the case back then, there was a very strong "if it's legal, it's allowed" sentiment on reddit. It was only after it started getting attention in mainstream media that it was banned.
  - TX81Z 3y ago
    Yes, exactly, that sentiment isn’t mainstream. It goes against dominant social values and norms. The dominant view in society is stuff like ”jailbait” shouldn’t be tolerated. The reason it’s not outright illegal is in a non-prurient context a yearbook photo may just be a photo. It’s when you post it to a forum for gutter creeps that the qualitative nature changes.
- oilchange 3y ago
  > They shut down a sub called “jailbait”, I’d say the vast majority of people are ok with that type of “censorship”. The point of free speech is to protect against "the vast majority of people". The vast majority of people are against lgbt, atheism, etc. Do you think such content should be banned as well? What if the vast majority of people want huckleberry finn banned? The vast majority of people was once against women's rights, civil rights, freeing the slaves, etc. Rights exist to guard against the mob. > And if being against that disgusting trash makes me “pro-censorship”, fine. That's fine. You can be pro-censorship. It's a valid opinion to hold. And certainly there is a lot of trash online. What I despise are people who are pro-censorship and yet claim to be for free speech. Also, my point isn't whether I agree or disagree with the content on reddit. My point was there was a time when reddit prided itself on being a free speech platform. As long as it was legal, it was allowed. That changed. Not because the "vast majority" wanted it but because a select group of elites wanted to install a censorship regime on reddit. Reddit was never a democracy. And censorship came to reddit because the business and media elites demanded it.
goykasi 3y ago
Wut? People migrated to reddit, because it was one of the few similarly featured platforms at the time. HN was (and still is more or less) a niche forum revolving around startups and SV. reddit was literally the only centralized place on the net that was positioned to handle the posts, discussion and users. Two completely different platforms that were never in competition with each other. I think you dont know what youre talking about.
treis 3y ago
I'm somewhat hopeful this gets the far left activist class to move to their own echo chamber like the Trump peeps did. Wish Reddit would go back to the let the upvotes handle it days. Would be nice to be able to sort by controversial again and see some reasonable takes.

lordnacho 3y ago

But you at least need someone to clean up spam? Not sure whether there was a forum spamming business back then, but there certainly is now.

oilchange 3y ago
Yes. Subs had moderators and they got rid of spam, but that was about it. The mods themselves were heavily pro free speech just like the founders and corporate. Back then, reddit was predominatly american and we all adopted the free speech as an ideal. Then as reddit gained a larger foreign following, they slowly chipped away at free speech. It's pretty much what happened to social media and the internet in general. The prononents of internet censorship are canadians, brits, europeans, middle easterners, indians, chinese, etc. After all, the only place "hate speech" is protected is in the US. If you think about it, you have to protect "hate speech" if you are to have free speech. You can't have free speech without "hate speech". The idea of censoring "hate speech" is an alien concept in america. It was imported from abroad.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  > Then as reddit gained a larger foreign following, they slowly chipped away at free speech. I don't think so. I would rather say Reddit made Trump president, so the US establishment got pissed off. Then Reddit appeases them.
TJSomething 3y ago
The neat thing is that Reddit is community moderated. Each community is allowed to set their own standards, but they also need to clean up their own spam. So, /r/science doesn't allow any jokes at all while /r/Antiwork bans anything that's pro-corporation. But several times, mostly when the controversy got too hot, the admins have killed subreddits, like /r/The_Donald, /r/incels, and /r/FatPeopleHate.

twelve40 3y ago

> it was not censored like HN! I don't feel like HN is censored. Does anyone think HN is censored? dang steps in mostly with technical edits or to break up a particularly nasty fight once in a while, can this really be called censorship? of course, you can take a karma hit from other people, but reddit always had that as well.

dotnet00 3y ago
Agreed, especially compared to modern Reddit, HN is a free speech haven.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- nwienert 3y ago
  It's super heavily moderated here. Reddit is heavily moderated too, but there you can get into an argument, and it depends on the subreddit. Here the tone policing is far, far stricter. Also the homepage is incredibly tightly controlled, politically and pro-YC. I've seen many articles on YC companies or associated people changed, removed, etc despite being highly relevant. Titles are changed to suit the mods tastes here. There was a good recent example where a very negative article on OpenAI skyrocketed the the top of the homepage, fastest rising post ever with a few hundred upvotes within like an hour - first the title was completely neutered, then the post was removed entirely.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    The difference is that here I've been able to see many opinions expressed and given a fair shake which would've resulted in a ban on most of Reddit. The title moderation also helps with keeping them neutral and/or informative (biased titles set the tone of the conversation). The tone policing is far stricter, but the actual content policing is a lot less absurd. The result is that controversial topics and opinions don't result in as much of a toxic cesspool of name calling. On top of all that, here you can enable the display of deleted and flagged comments.

TX81Z 3y ago

They shut down a sub called “jailbait”, I’d say the vast majority of people are ok with that type of “censorship”. And if being against that disgusting trash makes me “pro-censorship”, fine.

lkt 3y ago
That wasn't the case back then, there was a very strong "if it's legal, it's allowed" sentiment on reddit. It was only after it started getting attention in mainstream media that it was banned.
- TX81Z 3y ago
  Yes, exactly, that sentiment isn’t mainstream. It goes against dominant social values and norms. The dominant view in society is stuff like ”jailbait” shouldn’t be tolerated. The reason it’s not outright illegal is in a non-prurient context a yearbook photo may just be a photo. It’s when you post it to a forum for gutter creeps that the qualitative nature changes.
oilchange 3y ago
> They shut down a sub called “jailbait”, I’d say the vast majority of people are ok with that type of “censorship”. The point of free speech is to protect against "the vast majority of people". The vast majority of people are against lgbt, atheism, etc. Do you think such content should be banned as well? What if the vast majority of people want huckleberry finn banned? The vast majority of people was once against women's rights, civil rights, freeing the slaves, etc. Rights exist to guard against the mob. > And if being against that disgusting trash makes me “pro-censorship”, fine. That's fine. You can be pro-censorship. It's a valid opinion to hold. And certainly there is a lot of trash online. What I despise are people who are pro-censorship and yet claim to be for free speech. Also, my point isn't whether I agree or disagree with the content on reddit. My point was there was a time when reddit prided itself on being a free speech platform. As long as it was legal, it was allowed. That changed. Not because the "vast majority" wanted it but because a select group of elites wanted to install a censorship regime on reddit. Reddit was never a democracy. And censorship came to reddit because the business and media elites demanded it.

goykasi 3y ago

Wut? People migrated to reddit, because it was one of the few similarly featured platforms at the time. HN was (and still is more or less) a niche forum revolving around startups and SV. reddit was literally the only centralized place on the net that was positioned to handle the posts, discussion and users. Two completely different platforms that were never in competition with each other. I think you dont know what youre talking about.

treis 3y ago

I'm somewhat hopeful this gets the far left activist class to move to their own echo chamber like the Trump peeps did. Wish Reddit would go back to the let the upvotes handle it days. Would be nice to be able to sort by controversial again and see some reasonable takes.