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Kudos to you for trying this. Every time I open a Java project after spending time in literally any other language I get saddened by just how...cluttered? wordy

Kudos to you for trying this. Every time I open a Java project after spending time in literally any other language I get saddened by just how...cluttered? wordy? tedious? it is...hard to find the right word, but it's not good.

winrid 3y ago
Vertx is pretty good. I have two vertx services in prod without a single annotation.
- exp-prohibited 3y ago
  [dead]
mhd 3y ago
I've been doing some Angular-/Nest-ish TypeScript projects, and it's basically Spring with more bugs and = signs.
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  As a year long spring (boot) dev, I felt right at home with angular 2+ -it‘s literally the spring framework of frontend frameworks.
- webosdude 3y ago
  I haven’t used Angular but I have used Nest and I agree with this sentiment. Java Spring’s annotations are similar to Nest’s custom decorators.
- re-thc 3y ago
  > basically Spring with more bugs and = signs The worst parts of Spring is Spring. Nest lacks the IDE, the performance in the JVM, etc... there is nothing to gain.
nunobrito 3y ago
Sure, other languages without semi-colons and using invisible tabs for syntax are fantastic. What I love best are magic object types where you only discover invalid type casting when running the code. And lest we forget the fabulous unit testing for those non-tedious languages. Oh.. I forgot testing is tedious and therefore unavailable for most of those languages. But hey, just look at that really short code without a single comment. The word you're looking for is: Fantasticc! :-)
- rco8786 3y ago
  This doesn’t describe any language or framework I’ve worked in so hard not to conclude that it’s some sort of straw man
  - nunobrito 3y ago
    That is what one can say about verbosity and "tedious".
    - rco8786 3y ago
      That was me specifically talking about Java. You can disagree with it, but it’s certainly not a straw man.
jayd16 3y ago
Wouldn't this add more cluttered boilerplate? Annotations are pretty clean looking but the backlash is from the "magic" they provide, not the clutter.
olavgg 3y ago
Of all web frameworks, with perhaps the exception of Ruby on Rails. I really struggle with lack of documentation or the quality of documentation. And lesser popular frameworks has a lot less volunteers sharing knowledge. Spring Boot is one of the most popular web frameworks in the world. It is by far easier to figure out how to do build something that solves business problems in Spring / Hibernate than alternatives(except maybe RoR). For example, do you want to use Micronaut, the Spring Boot killer? Good luck fetching a collection with string type. I takes basically 2 minutes to google how do this with Spring Boot / Hibernate, and it will take you a day or two to figure out it isn't possible at all with Micronaut without writing massive amount of code that binds the results from your SQL to your objects. This is one example, and it shows the madness in web frameworks. Why are we switching frameworks that only ends up slowing us down? Spring Framework is a big framework, that solves many problems. It may be overwhelming the first year, but with a few years experience you do not want to switch, because other frameworks lacks or has ugly hacks for many Spring Framework features. Other advantages, massive access to experts for hire. There are literally thousands of Spring Framework developers in my area. Also, since I am an expert myself, I can share my knowledge between these people, and together we are improving our knowledge at a rate other frameworks cannot offer and this gives us a massive innovation pace that brings increased business value. The next time I will try another web framework, I need to see that my productivity gets improved immediately. Otherwise, is just noise.
- nprateem 3y ago
  Plus it's old enough that chat gpt is quite helpful. Would be good if they could update it for spring boot 3 though.

winrid 3y ago

Vertx is pretty good. I have two vertx services in prod without a single annotation.

exp-prohibited 3y ago
[dead]

mhd 3y ago

I've been doing some Angular-/Nest-ish TypeScript projects, and it's basically Spring with more bugs and = signs.

Traubenfuchs 3y ago
As a year long spring (boot) dev, I felt right at home with angular 2+ -it‘s literally the spring framework of frontend frameworks.
webosdude 3y ago
I haven’t used Angular but I have used Nest and I agree with this sentiment. Java Spring’s annotations are similar to Nest’s custom decorators.
re-thc 3y ago
> basically Spring with more bugs and = signs The worst parts of Spring is Spring. Nest lacks the IDE, the performance in the JVM, etc... there is nothing to gain.

nunobrito 3y ago

Sure, other languages without semi-colons and using invisible tabs for syntax are fantastic. What I love best are magic object types where you only discover invalid type casting when running the code. And lest we forget the fabulous unit testing for those non-tedious languages. Oh.. I forgot testing is tedious and therefore unavailable for most of those languages. But hey, just look at that really short code without a single comment. The word you're looking for is: Fantasticc! :-)

rco8786 3y ago
This doesn’t describe any language or framework I’ve worked in so hard not to conclude that it’s some sort of straw man
- nunobrito 3y ago
  That is what one can say about verbosity and "tedious".
  - rco8786 3y ago
    That was me specifically talking about Java. You can disagree with it, but it’s certainly not a straw man.

jayd16 3y ago

Wouldn't this add more cluttered boilerplate? Annotations are pretty clean looking but the backlash is from the "magic" they provide, not the clutter.

olavgg 3y ago

Of all web frameworks, with perhaps the exception of Ruby on Rails. I really struggle with lack of documentation or the quality of documentation. And lesser popular frameworks has a lot less volunteers sharing knowledge. Spring Boot is one of the most popular web frameworks in the world. It is by far easier to figure out how to do build something that solves business problems in Spring / Hibernate than alternatives(except maybe RoR). For example, do you want to use Micronaut, the Spring Boot killer? Good luck fetching a collection with string type. I takes basically 2 minutes to google how do this with Spring Boot / Hibernate, and it will take you a day or two to figure out it isn't possible at all with Micronaut without writing massive amount of code that binds the results from your SQL to your objects. This is one example, and it shows the madness in web frameworks. Why are we switching frameworks that only ends up slowing us down? Spring Framework is a big framework, that solves many problems. It may be overwhelming the first year, but with a few years experience you do not want to switch, because other frameworks lacks or has ugly hacks for many Spring Framework features. Other advantages, massive access to experts for hire. There are literally thousands of Spring Framework developers in my area. Also, since I am an expert myself, I can share my knowledge between these people, and together we are improving our knowledge at a rate other frameworks cannot offer and this gives us a massive innovation pace that brings increased business value. The next time I will try another web framework, I need to see that my productivity gets improved immediately. Otherwise, is just noise.

nprateem 3y ago
Plus it's old enough that chat gpt is quite helpful. Would be good if they could update it for spring boot 3 though.