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Q: How do you address the concerns of users who feel that Reddit has become increasingly profit-driven and less focused on community engagement? Spez: We

Q: How do you address the concerns of users who feel that Reddit has become increasingly profit-driven and less focused on community engagement? Spez: We’ll continue to be profit-driven until profits arrive. Unlike some of the 3P apps, we are not profitable.

raverbashing 3y ago
Does Spez thinks this makes them look good? And then you "blame" the 3rd party apps? Sounds like a basic failure of housekeeping. But, but let's blame "remote work" or something like that, yeah
- ng12 3y ago
  The more I think about this the funnier it is. A third party app built by two guys is so much better than the official Reddit app that people are willing to pay actual money for it... and his response is to throw shade at the developrs?
  - josephg 3y ago
    Yeah, meanwhile reddit apparently has 2000 employees and can’t make a simple enough site written in react work well. It lags my $3000 computer that can run cyberpunk in ultra.
    - matteoraso 3y ago
      This is such an underrated point. I straight up can't use Reddit on my phone without quickly switching to the old interface. Seriously, my phone will just crash, and that's with trackers being blocked. I have no idea how they managed to make such a bloated UI, without even having anything new besides profile pictures.
    - wruza 3y ago
      That requires much less employees, which reddit cannot afford.
    - bxff 3y ago
      Hi Seph, sorry to contact you this way, but as you have left the Braid group, is there a way to contact you? You stated at your departure that we could message you, but your DMs are closed on Discord. No worries if you don't want to be contacted, just asking as you stated to be contacted via DMs, but your DMs are closed.
      - josephg 3y ago
        Flick me an email. No promises that I’ll reply, but my email address isn’t hidden.
  - Seattle3503 3y ago
    Because third party apps are user agents, in the original sense of the word. The reddit app is Reddit's agent. The official reddit app exists to advance reddit's strategy. It isn't that reddit can't produce a better UI, it is that doing so isn't a part of their strategy.
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  I think Spez feels his power/dominance is threatened by Apollo/Christian and he is lashing out because he thinks the problem is Christian, and not his own actions. I think it's possible investors are forcing him into a situation he disagrees with, but I suspect that's charitable. I think his lack of self reflection rivals that of Triplebyte's CEO when they forced public profiles on people. People understand when force is being used against them rather than persuasion, and nobody likes to feel like force is being used against them. I am very happy to see collective force being leveraged towards someone in a position of power. I think Spez hasn't explored the idea that people value their anonymity, so attaching a credit card to an "anonymous" account isn't going to be popular. If reddit showed a desire to be frugal and fired all these awful dark pattern implementing UX devs who are devoid of professional ethics, and was ok breaking even instead of making money. I would strongly consider a 3-5 dollar a month donation not associated with an account. But they would have to trust the community enough to be somewhat open with their books. Of course the real problem here is likely a violation of fiduciary duties to their investors, although given how things are turning out, he may already be liable.
  - rapind 3y ago
    > If reddit showed a desire to be frugal and fired all these awful dark pattern implementing UX devs who are devoid of professional ethics, and was ok breaking even instead of making money. I suspect the direction to employ dark patterns comes from the top.
    - hayst4ck 3y ago
      Yes, professional ethics means rejecting unethical things from the top.
      - rapind 3y ago
        Semantics I guess. The way you worded it just seems like a bunch of machiavellian UX designers brought these dark patterns to management who were simply ethically negligent. All I'm saying is that I suspect the UX staff were directed to do this or at least to drive installs through "whatever means necessary".
lettergram 3y ago
Isn’t that an indication they should buy the 3rd party apps? Also pretty damning they can’t make a profit where others can off their data lol
- usaar333 3y ago
  Not necessarily. 1. It's entirely possible they could make more money monetizing the highly engaged users that use mobile apps through ads than those apps make directly. 2. Their cost structure is higher than the apps since they need to own and manage the backend and promote the overall Reddit branding.
- whaleofatw2022 3y ago
  Well, one of the 3rd party developers suggested that course of action... alas spez and/or other folks at reddit decided to frame that as being 'threatened' by them. Which, honestly is great insight into the fragile mind of a man manchild lucky enough that their startup happens to be very visible to.the public eye.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  > Also pretty damning they can’t make a profit where others can off their data lol I agree that Reddit's failure to convert their enormous reach into profit is a failure, I don't agree that this particular thing is damning. I'll bet if you pooled the revenue of every third party app it still wouldn't begin to cover Reddit's overall costs.
  - jcz_nz 3y ago
    The CEO’s lack of integrity is a signal.
- tshaddox 3y ago
  That doesn’t really follow. A third party app could be profitable because it pays little or nothing for the Reddit API and makes money from app sales or in-app purchases. If Reddit bought the app it hardly helps them.
lawgimenez 3y ago
His reply has 0 class and no professionalism whatsoever. I am not familiar with him, how did he became CEO.
- scrame 3y ago
  First YC Class.
- Anon4Now 3y ago
  He's the only remaining co-founder.
satvikpendem 3y ago
Well, it's true. Third party apps don't have to deal with the entire server side of Reddit, ie hosting text, images, video etc. They're just dealing with the client side off a free API, of course they're profitable. At least the CEO is honest that companies exist to make money, of course.
- asdff 3y ago
  Hosting the text content is one thing, but reddit willingly became a multimedia hosting site not all that long ago. The site grew and users got by fine using imgur and what not before i.reddit.com and v.reddit.com ever existed. They also decided to do presumably costly ui rollouts that a lot of their most veteran community members opt out of.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    Do you know why Reddit actually built their own multimedia platforms via i/v.reddit? Because Imgur didn't want to host Reddit content anymore [0]. This is about NSFW but more generally there was a cooling of relations between Imgur and Reddit because essentially Reddit users were freeloading on Imgur's platform without Imgur necessarily being able to show ads due to how Reddit linked directly to the image and not the Imgur link. Therefore, Reddit was forced (and yes, also wanted) to build their own versions. There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay the bills on hosting, and I'm sure Reddit thought it'd be cheaper to do it themselves at scale than to pay someone as a middleman. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/18/20920977/imgur-reddit-nsfw-images-support-business-at-risk https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/18/20920977/imgur-reddit-ns...
    - Matheus28 3y ago
      According to that article you linked, Reddit started hosting their own images 3 years prior to that change. As I recall, it was Reddit who moved away from Imgur, not the reverse.
      - satvikpendem 3y ago
ksec 3y ago
Basically the end of an era where tech companies will finally have to make a profit. Obviously from the development of Reddit over the years they never really care about any of it until interest rate punch you in the face. Finally, it is nice. Back to the good old days where things have to at least pass the common sense test.

raverbashing 3y ago

Does Spez thinks this makes them look good? And then you "blame" the 3rd party apps? Sounds like a basic failure of housekeeping. But, but let's blame "remote work" or something like that, yeah

ng12 3y ago
The more I think about this the funnier it is. A third party app built by two guys is so much better than the official Reddit app that people are willing to pay actual money for it... and his response is to throw shade at the developrs?
- josephg 3y ago
  Yeah, meanwhile reddit apparently has 2000 employees and can’t make a simple enough site written in react work well. It lags my $3000 computer that can run cyberpunk in ultra.
  - matteoraso 3y ago
    This is such an underrated point. I straight up can't use Reddit on my phone without quickly switching to the old interface. Seriously, my phone will just crash, and that's with trackers being blocked. I have no idea how they managed to make such a bloated UI, without even having anything new besides profile pictures.
  - wruza 3y ago
    That requires much less employees, which reddit cannot afford.
  - bxff 3y ago
    Hi Seph, sorry to contact you this way, but as you have left the Braid group, is there a way to contact you? You stated at your departure that we could message you, but your DMs are closed on Discord. No worries if you don't want to be contacted, just asking as you stated to be contacted via DMs, but your DMs are closed.
    - josephg 3y ago
      Flick me an email. No promises that I’ll reply, but my email address isn’t hidden.
- Seattle3503 3y ago
  Because third party apps are user agents, in the original sense of the word. The reddit app is Reddit's agent. The official reddit app exists to advance reddit's strategy. It isn't that reddit can't produce a better UI, it is that doing so isn't a part of their strategy.
hayst4ck 3y ago
I think Spez feels his power/dominance is threatened by Apollo/Christian and he is lashing out because he thinks the problem is Christian, and not his own actions. I think it's possible investors are forcing him into a situation he disagrees with, but I suspect that's charitable. I think his lack of self reflection rivals that of Triplebyte's CEO when they forced public profiles on people. People understand when force is being used against them rather than persuasion, and nobody likes to feel like force is being used against them. I am very happy to see collective force being leveraged towards someone in a position of power. I think Spez hasn't explored the idea that people value their anonymity, so attaching a credit card to an "anonymous" account isn't going to be popular. If reddit showed a desire to be frugal and fired all these awful dark pattern implementing UX devs who are devoid of professional ethics, and was ok breaking even instead of making money. I would strongly consider a 3-5 dollar a month donation not associated with an account. But they would have to trust the community enough to be somewhat open with their books. Of course the real problem here is likely a violation of fiduciary duties to their investors, although given how things are turning out, he may already be liable.
- rapind 3y ago
  > If reddit showed a desire to be frugal and fired all these awful dark pattern implementing UX devs who are devoid of professional ethics, and was ok breaking even instead of making money. I suspect the direction to employ dark patterns comes from the top.
  - hayst4ck 3y ago
    Yes, professional ethics means rejecting unethical things from the top.
    - rapind 3y ago
      Semantics I guess. The way you worded it just seems like a bunch of machiavellian UX designers brought these dark patterns to management who were simply ethically negligent. All I'm saying is that I suspect the UX staff were directed to do this or at least to drive installs through "whatever means necessary".

lettergram 3y ago

Isn’t that an indication they should buy the 3rd party apps? Also pretty damning they can’t make a profit where others can off their data lol

usaar333 3y ago
Not necessarily. 1. It's entirely possible they could make more money monetizing the highly engaged users that use mobile apps through ads than those apps make directly. 2. Their cost structure is higher than the apps since they need to own and manage the backend and promote the overall Reddit branding.
whaleofatw2022 3y ago
Well, one of the 3rd party developers suggested that course of action... alas spez and/or other folks at reddit decided to frame that as being 'threatened' by them. Which, honestly is great insight into the fragile mind of a man manchild lucky enough that their startup happens to be very visible to.the public eye.
mvdtnz 3y ago
> Also pretty damning they can’t make a profit where others can off their data lol I agree that Reddit's failure to convert their enormous reach into profit is a failure, I don't agree that this particular thing is damning. I'll bet if you pooled the revenue of every third party app it still wouldn't begin to cover Reddit's overall costs.
- jcz_nz 3y ago
  The CEO’s lack of integrity is a signal.
tshaddox 3y ago
That doesn’t really follow. A third party app could be profitable because it pays little or nothing for the Reddit API and makes money from app sales or in-app purchases. If Reddit bought the app it hardly helps them.

lawgimenez 3y ago

His reply has 0 class and no professionalism whatsoever. I am not familiar with him, how did he became CEO.

scrame 3y ago
First YC Class.
Anon4Now 3y ago
He's the only remaining co-founder.

satvikpendem 3y ago

Well, it's true. Third party apps don't have to deal with the entire server side of Reddit, ie hosting text, images, video etc. They're just dealing with the client side off a free API, of course they're profitable. At least the CEO is honest that companies exist to make money, of course.

asdff 3y ago
Hosting the text content is one thing, but reddit willingly became a multimedia hosting site not all that long ago. The site grew and users got by fine using imgur and what not before i.reddit.com and v.reddit.com ever existed. They also decided to do presumably costly ui rollouts that a lot of their most veteran community members opt out of.
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  Do you know why Reddit actually built their own multimedia platforms via i/v.reddit? Because Imgur didn't want to host Reddit content anymore [0]. This is about NSFW but more generally there was a cooling of relations between Imgur and Reddit because essentially Reddit users were freeloading on Imgur's platform without Imgur necessarily being able to show ads due to how Reddit linked directly to the image and not the Imgur link. Therefore, Reddit was forced (and yes, also wanted) to build their own versions. There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay the bills on hosting, and I'm sure Reddit thought it'd be cheaper to do it themselves at scale than to pay someone as a middleman. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/18/20920977/imgur-reddit-nsfw-images-support-business-at-risk https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/18/20920977/imgur-reddit-ns...
  - Matheus28 3y ago
    According to that article you linked, Reddit started hosting their own images 3 years prior to that change. As I recall, it was Reddit who moved away from Imgur, not the reverse.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago

ksec 3y ago

Basically the end of an era where tech companies will finally have to make a profit. Obviously from the development of Reddit over the years they never really care about any of it until interest rate punch you in the face. Finally, it is nice. Back to the good old days where things have to at least pass the common sense test.