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The Reddit CEO's negative karma (-111,199 at this time) during the recent Ask Me Anything (AMA) session indicates an overwhelmingly negative response from the c
by schappim 3y ago
The Reddit CEO's negative karma (-111,199 at this time) during the recent Ask Me Anything (AMA) session indicates an overwhelmingly negative response from the community.
You have to assume that the leadership team is not completely inept and that there must be a valid, urgent reason for willingly taking so much heat before the IPO.
What could it possibly be?
- dotnet00 3y agoMy guess is that they see themselves as potentially one of the companies which might not be able to attract sufficient investor money now that capital isn't essentially free.
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoThey’re sick of running Reddit and want a pay out. Then then bounce.
- wmeredith 3y agoI’ve worked in tech long enough to tell you that leadership being completely inept isn’t as far-fetched as you think.
- TX81Z 3y agoCan confirm. The people at the top in tech are a) primarily driven by personal advancement, b) focus all their attention on getting a promotion (or higher share price), c) if user welfare and personal ambition are in conflict personal ambition comes first. It’s just normal humanity stupidity and greed, and these aren’t like head of the class intellects, it’s just boring people who love money and status and get no satisfaction from helping others.
- ksec 3y agoIt is not just Tech, but similar in every other industry. Only those industries with cut throat competition would have better leadership ( Because they are forced to compete ). The problem with Tech is that they are the primary beneficial of hyper growth with zero interest rate era and Smartphone revolution. In the space of 10+ years tech have grown from an unthinkable Trillion dollar market cap to now we have a single company with close to 3 trillion, two other company with close to 2 trillion and other rushing to trillion dollar club. And this is unlike previous bubble they have actual profits and balance sheet for their market valuation. People working in tech, especially within BigTech are not only partly dictating the world and media's attention, they are also so out of touch they became aristocracy in the old era.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- colechristensen 3y agoI wouldn’t say it’s so much “greed” as business models that don’t actually make money. Take investor money until you’ve gotten as big as you can with billions in valuation while making little to no profit, change business models to try to make yourself actually profitable, and in doing so “ruin” what was only possible while being supported by hopeful patient investors. Thus begins your decline and the gamble for who gets stuck holding the bag.
- berniedurfee 3y agoI think that qualifies.
- TX81Z 3y agoYes, but you can flush billions down the drain and if you get a nice title along the way it doesn’t matter in Silicon Valley. A VP who oversaw a billion being set on fire will still be hired as a VP at the next company as long as that money was burned on the tech trend of the moment.
- 7373737373 3y agoI wouldn't want to say that "he's at the top in tech", I'd want to reserve that for good programmers, engineers and researchers Maybe more: "he's trying to be at the top in business/value extraction/rent seeking"
- sheikheddy 3y agotop of org charts?
- TX81Z 3y agoThat’s what I was referring to. What I’d call “top talent” is rarely the same as “top of the org”.
- thih9 3y agoAnecdotally, my experience is different. In my case this usually means that I am unaware of some other factors at play, usually business constraints that haven’t been made public.
- marcod 3y agoI mean in the reddit case the business reason is "monetize the platform as much as possible", which clashes with a platform that's nothing without its users and the content they create. A good business strategy would be to build trust and have dialog and increase monetization in small steps that the majority of the userbase can tolerate (after all people understand that things cost money). By taking a huge jump to early on and shitting on volunteers/3rd party app developers, they lost what little trust they had. Doubly sad that the same playbook played out with Digg and showed reddit exactly what not to do.
- Fanmade 3y agoThe topic has been analyzed quite extensively in my small bubble of very experienced people (mostly software developers, some with management experience, but also other people from various fields). We asked ourselves why so often such strange decisions are made out of management and our basic attitude was that we simply don't have the necessary information to be able to evaluate these decisions reasonably. So we gathered a lot of information, as much of it as possible directly from management itself. We have indeed found information that explains some managerial decisions, but so far only of the variety that have benefited individual managers themselves, and always with negative consequences for the majority of others. However, the overwhelming majority of what we consider peculiar (up to catastrophic) decisions are due to a combination of hubris, impostor syndrome and absolute incompetence. In one case where we could least explain the decisions at first, a manager under the influence of alcohol virtually admitted that they were not only aware of their own incompetence, but that they intentionally got rid of overly competent people so that they wouldn't make them look so bad. It's a mess.
- mlyle 3y ago> The Reddit CEO's negative karma (-111,199 at this time) during the recent Ask Me Anything (AMA) session indicates an overwhelmingly negative response from the community. The really impressive thing is... if you follow a user profile link to a comment and vote, the vote doesn't count. And it was really hard to see spez's comments without following them from his profile, because they were so downvoted. So I don't even know how you get down to -1000 on comments.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Dalewyn 3y ago>I don't even know how you get down to -1000 on comments. By not going into the database and flipping the sign on that integer. And before anyone says I'm memeing or otherwise attacking spez without cause: Remember, this is spez. He admitted to directly modifying the database to edit comments of people critical of him once upon a time. He called forth this level of distrust himself.
- mlyle 3y agoSome people were noticing, early in the thread, big steps up on the net vote a couple minutes after each comment, which triggered some suspicion of similar shenanigans.
- netsharc 3y agoI just realized all the threats of going private are a bit moot because guess who controls the database where this flag is set? It'd be a massive fuck you to the community, but how would that be different to what's been going on the last few months? I'm guessing the company will be like an abusive partner saying "we're in control, you can leave, but we know you won't."
- doix 3y agoYes and no. They can force the the subs to go public again, but then the mods might quit. Losing a lot of mods is a bigger deal than losing the same number of users. Trying to find a bunch of new mods will probably be an issue. Right now there isn't _too much_ complaining about mods. It's a very fine balance and replacing a bunch of existing ones with new ones might cause mayhem.
- MattGaiser 3y agoI am not convinced that community revolts have staying power. Reddit the community has fought management a few times and besides trading Pao for Huffman, which was not really a win for them in that case, when has anything ever changed? So, does the heat matter?
- yanderekko 3y agoGenerally the revolts have achieved their ends. Mod revolts have lead to the banning of many subs in the past. The most recent one that comes to mind is the ban on COVID skepticism subs. I can't think of a result that has wholly flopped, really. But I'd say that this one is more likely to fail since it represents a direct attack on a monetization strategy.
- MattGaiser 3y agoBanning COVID skepticism is commercially pretty easy, so while yes the Reddit revolters did win in that case, it was also a small ask as it was not like advertisers liked the content anyway. I was thinking more of Victoria Taylor, where sure, the community did get rid of Ellen Pao, but they didn't get back AMAs and got an even less considerate and professional CEO.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y ago> Banning COVID skepticism is commercially pretty easy That wasn’t “skepticism” - it was outright denial of high-school-level biology facts, and it all gets worse from there. > commercially pretty easy I doubt it’s that easy - considering Facebook’s inaction.
- flangola7 3y agoHuffman is a clear downgrade. Pao was fine.
- rexreed 3y agoReddit was born of Digg's ashes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg "After a controversial 2010 redesign and the departure of co-founders Jay Adelson and Kevin Rose, in July 2012 Digg was sold in three parts: the Digg brand, website, and technology were sold to Betaworks for an estimated $500,000;[9] 15 staff were transferred to The Washington Post Company's "SocialCode" for a reported $12 million; and a suite of patents was sold to LinkedIn for about $4 million."
- lawn 3y agoWhen all evidence points to the contrary, yes you can assume that the leadership is inept. Benefit of the doubt only stretches so far.
- neuronic 3y agoSteve Huffman has proven to be a huge liability for reddit time and time again, outdoing himself with his recent behavior. I don't understand how anyone could think about investing into this company at all. What is the platform even worth if it is riddled with bots like Twitter? Who are companies even advertising towards? Hey backend server "207fef50-b354-4c85-8865-f56f8313cd2c" look at these new electric BBQ offers!
- SanjayMehta 3y agoHis focus is on having a successful IPO, to enrich himself. Karma has no effect on the IPO, positive or negative.
- forgetfreeman 3y agoThere should be a corollary to Hanlon's Razor that states: Don't attribute to veiled motives what can adequately be explained by stupidity.
- WalterBright 3y agoThat is an old rule: Don't mistake malice for bungling.
- whateveracct 3y agoThat rule doesn't work in the modern age. The modern malicious clearly try to cloud there BS in incompetence.
- WalterBright 3y agoIt isn't necessary to emulate incompetence. Incompetence and bungling is the default state, and very hard to avoid.
- TeMPOraL 3y agoHanlon's handgun: don't attribute stupidity to what can be adequately explained with systemic incentives promoting malice. It applies here. Stupidity is extremely unlikely.
- ookblah 3y agomaybe it's just ego and reality will hit them in the face wework style lol.
- firecall 3y agoThey’ve reached their natural level of user base. Now as they ramp up to an IPO, 3rd party clients are seen as a liability, not an asset. They view anyone that complains as a vocal minority, the my don’t believe their MAU numbers will change in any meaningful way. If anything, all the press around it just raises Reddits profile. That’s my take on what’s going on, but I have no insider knowledge so I’m just guessing :-)
- satvikpendem 3y agoIndeed, how many of Reddit's 500 million users per month base actually use anything besides new Reddit and the official app? I'd say the vanishing minority.
- kyriakos 3y agoif that's the case then why are they going after 3rd party apps? If they are a niche among the user base then the benefit of killing them is hardly worth losing moderators who've been doing work for free.
- satvikpendem 3y agoIt's about controlling their user base in terms of how they use the service.
- ummonk 3y agoIf those users weren't that important, Reddit wouldn't be needing to push through this change and capture the revenue from those users.
- ajmurmann 3y agoMuch of the complaints seem to come from moderators who rely on third-party apps for moderation. That seems reasonable and like a real problem. I wonder if Reddit could have bought one of the popular apps moderators use and make it official.
- 3y ago
- generalc 3y ago> You have to assume that the leadership team is not completely inept. On the contrary, I really resonated with the top response to one of his replies: https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/comment/jnk8o3k/ https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/comment/jnk...
- rawling 3y ago> Did you not prepare any real answers ahead of time to obvious questions? You could just be copy/pasting detailed statements with actionable items in them right now instead of typing non-answers every 5-15 minutes. That would be a level of preparation appropriate for a potential billion-dollar company. Elsewhere I've seen people complaining that one of his responses started with "A:" so he was "obviously just copy-pasting rather than actually answering". https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/146h9d6/reddits_users_and_moderators_are_pissed_at_its_ceo/jnqpeb4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/146h9d6/reddits... (E to put the last part in quotes)
- elpocko 3y ago> during the recent Ask Me Anything (AMA) session People keep talking about an AMA session, but there was none. Not every self post on reddit is an AMA session, and I don't think it's fair to call his post one and attack it on that basis.
- soneil 3y agoThat’s what their staff called it - https://reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/144ho2x/join_our_ceo_tomorrow_to_discuss_the_api/ https://reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/144ho2x/join_our_ceo_to... “ Reddit CEO, u/spez, will be here tomorrow to host an AMA about the latest API updates, including accessibility, mod bots, and third-party mod tools. “
- elpocko 3y agoOof, okay. Weird.
- ALittleLight 3y agoWhy would you possibly assume reddit's leadership team isn't completely inept? I would need extremely strong evidence to think anything but. reddit got lucky - right place, right time, and locked in a strong enough network effect to stay alive despite the best efforts of their leadership. Look at their atrocious UI. The clumsy desperate attempts to drive users to an app. The boneheaded copycat features that never quite work, or are just downright baffling. In an alternate world a smaller team would have focused on site reliability, mod tools, and a small set of features that made sense. Use third party ad tools until, or if, you get a better homegrown solution. With this route reddit would have been profitable and probably good. Instead...
- klodolph 3y agoI don’t get the “completely inept” or “valid, urgent reason” dilemma. The decisions Reddit leadership is making seem foreseeable / obvious, under the assumption that they own lots of Reddit stock and want an IPO.
- drumhead 3y agoThey're relying on inertia and most people not caring about the changes. They know they can also force open a lot of the private sub-reddits whenever they want to. Sam Altman sits on their board so he's told them how much they can make by jacking the api prices up and selling the data to LLMs for training.
- throw0101b 3y ago> The Reddit CEO's negative karma (-111,199 at this time) Perhaps he's trying to pull a Nuclear Gandhi[1] and go 'deep' enough to underflow to being extremely positive? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Gandhi
- HeavyStorm 3y agoMoney.
- KomoD 3y agoIs there a tool to see negative karma or did you add it all up manually?
- schappim 3y agoManually. It is not as if he answered many questions.