5 ms·

Wow. So much negativity. As far as I’m concerned, even if the city burns every dollar it collects, if this gets some cars off the island, it’s a win. It’s time

by pkulak 3y ago

Wow. So much negativity. As far as I’m concerned, even if the city burns every dollar it collects, if this gets some cars off the island, it’s a win. It’s time to stop tolerating personal vehicles in our most dense urban centers.

isatty 3y ago
It’s never that simple. There are loads of people for which a personal or work vehicle is a necessity. Public transport cannot, and is never designed to catch every edge case. I’m all for better public transportation but strong statements and mishandled public funds just sways the support of the average joe.
- nostrebored 3y ago
  It really is. Have you been in New York? In the area that this is being implemented in, you can absolutely survive without ever setting foot in a car. Other cities should have been planned around density. Instead we have suburban hellscapes where kids can’t be kids and there’s no real community. The car has been the single most destructive piece of mass-adopted tech for urban planning and lifestyle. If we have to start new cities to replace the disasters we created, better to rip off the bandaid now. Sucks that we used some of the best land in the country.
  - eBombzor 3y ago
    Couldn't agree more. I moved out of LA to get the fk away from car culture. Now I live and work near dt Seattle where everything is relatively walkable, and my car is used at most twice a month for random things that I honestly don't need anyways. Obviously Seattle is not even close to a real walkable city like Amsterdam but miles better than LA. Going back to LA, it is exactly what you describe. Just a concrete hellscape. There are stretches where every single peice of the ground has a layer of concrete on it. Don't even get me started with Houston.
    - hifromLA 3y ago
      I’m not going to say LA is not a car disaster, but LA does have dozens of walkable neighborhoods to be fair. It wouldn’t be apples to apples to compare Woodland Hills to Capitol Hill (for example). And although community parks can be in short supply, there’s hundreds of thousands of acres of open space in the Santa Monica and San Gabriel mountains.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    I enjoy walkable cities. I don't live in New York, but I couldn't do my job as is without a car. I simply have too much equipment. There are probably many other people in the same position. I feel like step A should be to build better transit, not punish drivers.
    - pkulak 3y ago
      I said “personal vehicles”, just fyi. Sounds like you’re describing a work truck.
      - Auracle 3y ago
        Not really. I’m a photographer, not a plumber. My Camaro is pretty full for weddings though, where I’m bringing all of my equipment + backups.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - earthling8118 3y ago
      Perhaps you could think of it less as punishing drivers and more like stopping punishing everyone else for the sake of cars.
  - Tade0 3y ago
    > Instead we have suburban hellscapes where kids can’t be kids and there’s no real community. I'm not American, but from my perspective that's just an easy target, and the real problem is here: https://reason.com/2014/08/19/august-2014-reason-rupe-national-survey/ https://reason.com/2014/08/19/august-2014-reason-rupe-nation... The title itself isn't particularly shocking - it's the 43% of Americans who are of the opinion that the law should require 12 year olds to be supervised while playing in public parks is, to me, the absolutely bonkers part here. Not saying suburban sprawl is a good thing - personally I find this sort of zoning silly. It's just that this isn't the problem you want to focus on if you want kids to be kids.
tehjoker 3y ago
The main reason to have a personal vehicle now is that there's an ongoing pandemic and there are no mitigations. If people would do something about that, it would make more sense to reinvest in higher density environmentally friendly transit options.
- nimbleplum40 3y ago
  Covid is no longer a threat for the vast, vast majority of people. If it is for you, that’s a big bummer (I mean that genuinely. A close friend of mine is immunocompromised due to chemo and it fucking sucks), but you can wear an N95 on transit or, better yet, pay the congestion charge and enjoy the _lower traffic_ commute than before.
  - tehjoker 3y ago
    Unfortunately, you are misinformed. Deaths are lower from acute infection (still hundreds a day), but long covid affects up to 20% of reinfected w/ omicron. It is currently unknown what the long term implications of infection are (but multi organ damage is documented, incl. cardiac/vascular issues and brain damage). Note that HIV presents w/ mild flu-like symptoms and kills 10 years later. Other viruses have long term implications. The gov. has abandoned you for the economy and you should be very angry. They killed a million of your fellow citizens to make the line go up.
PM_me_your_math 3y ago
Yea, trains can deliver the food to our stores in downtown! Or people can carry the pallets of food... Progress!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

by pkulak 3y ago

isatty 3y ago

It’s never that simple. There are loads of people for which a personal or work vehicle is a necessity. Public transport cannot, and is never designed to catch every edge case. I’m all for better public transportation but strong statements and mishandled public funds just sways the support of the average joe.

nostrebored 3y ago
It really is. Have you been in New York? In the area that this is being implemented in, you can absolutely survive without ever setting foot in a car. Other cities should have been planned around density. Instead we have suburban hellscapes where kids can’t be kids and there’s no real community. The car has been the single most destructive piece of mass-adopted tech for urban planning and lifestyle. If we have to start new cities to replace the disasters we created, better to rip off the bandaid now. Sucks that we used some of the best land in the country.
- eBombzor 3y ago
  Couldn't agree more. I moved out of LA to get the fk away from car culture. Now I live and work near dt Seattle where everything is relatively walkable, and my car is used at most twice a month for random things that I honestly don't need anyways. Obviously Seattle is not even close to a real walkable city like Amsterdam but miles better than LA. Going back to LA, it is exactly what you describe. Just a concrete hellscape. There are stretches where every single peice of the ground has a layer of concrete on it. Don't even get me started with Houston.
  - hifromLA 3y ago
    I’m not going to say LA is not a car disaster, but LA does have dozens of walkable neighborhoods to be fair. It wouldn’t be apples to apples to compare Woodland Hills to Capitol Hill (for example). And although community parks can be in short supply, there’s hundreds of thousands of acres of open space in the Santa Monica and San Gabriel mountains.
- Auracle 3y ago
  I enjoy walkable cities. I don't live in New York, but I couldn't do my job as is without a car. I simply have too much equipment. There are probably many other people in the same position. I feel like step A should be to build better transit, not punish drivers.
  - pkulak 3y ago
    I said “personal vehicles”, just fyi. Sounds like you’re describing a work truck.
    - Auracle 3y ago
      Not really. I’m a photographer, not a plumber. My Camaro is pretty full for weddings though, where I’m bringing all of my equipment + backups.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - earthling8118 3y ago
    Perhaps you could think of it less as punishing drivers and more like stopping punishing everyone else for the sake of cars.
- Tade0 3y ago
  > Instead we have suburban hellscapes where kids can’t be kids and there’s no real community. I'm not American, but from my perspective that's just an easy target, and the real problem is here: https://reason.com/2014/08/19/august-2014-reason-rupe-national-survey/ https://reason.com/2014/08/19/august-2014-reason-rupe-nation... The title itself isn't particularly shocking - it's the 43% of Americans who are of the opinion that the law should require 12 year olds to be supervised while playing in public parks is, to me, the absolutely bonkers part here. Not saying suburban sprawl is a good thing - personally I find this sort of zoning silly. It's just that this isn't the problem you want to focus on if you want kids to be kids.

tehjoker 3y ago

The main reason to have a personal vehicle now is that there's an ongoing pandemic and there are no mitigations. If people would do something about that, it would make more sense to reinvest in higher density environmentally friendly transit options.

nimbleplum40 3y ago
Covid is no longer a threat for the vast, vast majority of people. If it is for you, that’s a big bummer (I mean that genuinely. A close friend of mine is immunocompromised due to chemo and it fucking sucks), but you can wear an N95 on transit or, better yet, pay the congestion charge and enjoy the _lower traffic_ commute than before.
- tehjoker 3y ago
  Unfortunately, you are misinformed. Deaths are lower from acute infection (still hundreds a day), but long covid affects up to 20% of reinfected w/ omicron. It is currently unknown what the long term implications of infection are (but multi organ damage is documented, incl. cardiac/vascular issues and brain damage). Note that HIV presents w/ mild flu-like symptoms and kills 10 years later. Other viruses have long term implications. The gov. has abandoned you for the economy and you should be very angry. They killed a million of your fellow citizens to make the line go up.

PM_me_your_math 3y ago

Yea, trains can deliver the food to our stores in downtown! Or people can carry the pallets of food... Progress!

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]