4 ms·

It’s legal to turn left in such a case as long as you entered the intersection already. So at least the first 1-2 cars are not doing anything illegal

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
You can't legally enter an intersection (advance past the stopping line if present) until you are clear to perform your transit of the intersection. Left on red is never legal and marginal on yellow.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Left on red is never legal and marginal on yellow. Not parituclarly relevant to the gridlock violation at issue here, but left on red from a one-way street to a one-way street is legal in the same conditions as right-on-red generally in a large majority of US states, a few of which also allow left-on-red from a two-way street to a one-way street. Left-on-red is only completely illegal in a few states.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  The law here is clear. There has to be "sufficient space on the other side" before you enter the intersection. There is no need to make the entire maneuver at once.
- dunham 3y ago
  > You can't legally enter an intersection (advance past the stopping line if present) until you are clear to perform your transit of the intersection. Yeah, I've seen tickets written for this in Emeryville, CA for cars that entered on green and weren't going to clear the intersection in the next ten minutes. (I don't know if the intersection is still that bad.) Bicycle cop, because there was no way they'd get a car in there. > Left on red is never legal I recall that this was legal in Michigan, where I grew up, but it either had to be onto or off of a one way street. I could never remember which, so I didn't try it. But I did see someone make a left on red on market street in SF from the rightmost lane, which is very illegal.
  - saalweachter 3y ago
    > I recall that this was legal in Michigan, where I grew up, but it either had to be onto or off of a one way street. I could never remember which, so I didn't try it. I believe it requires two one-way streets.
    - Jap2-0 3y ago
      Yeah, this covers the case when turning left doesn't cross any oncoming lanes of traffic - so it's basically the same as turning right on red at a normal light. Although searching for this now, it does appear to also be allowed from a two-way,[0] which sounds vaguely familiar but isn't really the same as turning right on red. [0] https://www.michigan.gov/msp/services/traffic-safety/traffic-laws-faqs https://www.michigan.gov/msp/services/traffic-safety/traffic...
jondwillis 3y ago
Yeah, but sometimes the second and usually the third (and fourth - I have seen it!) are not in the intersection.

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago

You can't legally enter an intersection (advance past the stopping line if present) until you are clear to perform your transit of the intersection. Left on red is never legal and marginal on yellow.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Left on red is never legal and marginal on yellow. Not parituclarly relevant to the gridlock violation at issue here, but left on red from a one-way street to a one-way street is legal in the same conditions as right-on-red generally in a large majority of US states, a few of which also allow left-on-red from a two-way street to a one-way street. Left-on-red is only completely illegal in a few states.
Dylan16807 3y ago
The law here is clear. There has to be "sufficient space on the other side" before you enter the intersection. There is no need to make the entire maneuver at once.
dunham 3y ago
> You can't legally enter an intersection (advance past the stopping line if present) until you are clear to perform your transit of the intersection. Yeah, I've seen tickets written for this in Emeryville, CA for cars that entered on green and weren't going to clear the intersection in the next ten minutes. (I don't know if the intersection is still that bad.) Bicycle cop, because there was no way they'd get a car in there. > Left on red is never legal I recall that this was legal in Michigan, where I grew up, but it either had to be onto or off of a one way street. I could never remember which, so I didn't try it. But I did see someone make a left on red on market street in SF from the rightmost lane, which is very illegal.
- saalweachter 3y ago
  > I recall that this was legal in Michigan, where I grew up, but it either had to be onto or off of a one way street. I could never remember which, so I didn't try it. I believe it requires two one-way streets.
  - Jap2-0 3y ago
    Yeah, this covers the case when turning left doesn't cross any oncoming lanes of traffic - so it's basically the same as turning right on red at a normal light. Although searching for this now, it does appear to also be allowed from a two-way,[0] which sounds vaguely familiar but isn't really the same as turning right on red. [0] https://www.michigan.gov/msp/services/traffic-safety/traffic-laws-faqs https://www.michigan.gov/msp/services/traffic-safety/traffic...

jondwillis 3y ago

Yeah, but sometimes the second and usually the third (and fourth - I have seen it!) are not in the intersection.