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Obligatory https://iselmdead.info/ https://iselmdead.info/

by Fitzero 3y ago

hu3 3y ago
We need a https://seriously-iselmdead.info https://seriously-iselmdead.info
- riwsky 3y ago
  isiselmdead.infodead.info
GaggiX 3y ago
I guess this site is also dead.
frozenlettuce 3y ago
Gotta love the cult of personality
- klabb3 3y ago
  Yeah sad. I appreciate the philosophy with slow careful releases and I also believe that people should be allowed to make unorthodox design choices in order to stay focused (or at least I’m not sure qualified to critique their choices). But, it seems like there’s a culture of taboo/fear/fanboyism which is clearly not healthy.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hombre_fatal 3y ago
    I don’t get what’s unhealthy about anything on that page. Elm’s trade offs are in plain sight. If you don’t want them, then you have plenty of warning. Frankly Elm has more of a problem with negative fanboying: people who have decided it’s not for them yet have to constantly show up to neener neener every time Elm appears on HN instead of just moving on. It’s very weird to me as someone who uses Elm daily. We get it. You don’t like it and everyone needs to know it. That it’s some sort of cult is just HN drama begging fantasy.
    - hu3 3y ago
      It's totally fine to run the project (or don't run) as the owner see fits and use it however one wants. But let's not pretend the project is actively maintained and there are no bugs. That's what klabb3 alludes to. Elm has this "this is fine" phenomenon where people like to pretend its a one-of-a-kind software that has no bugs doesn't even need a patch with bug fixes.
      - hombre_fatal 3y ago
        Do people pretend that? Or is it just an HN circlejerk that reports it be so? I'm a regular user of the Elm ecosystem, like the Slack/Discord, and everyone talks casually about Elm's bugs. In the #beginner channel it's just "Yeah oops that's def a known issue, but you can work around that with X." It's just that Elm is still a good tool despite its warts, and its bugs aren't catastrophic. Presumably that's the smoking gun for your "this is fine" phenomenon: that people still use it and dare to even enjoy it despite unfixed bugs.
        awestroke 3y ago
        No, it's that Elm fans defend the decision to never fix those bugs
        oxnrtr 3y ago
        Stockholm syndrome. You know ... normal people in normal projects would just fix the bugs?
        lolinder 3y ago
        People absolutely pretend that! This whole subthread spun of from a discussion of https://iselmdead.info/ https://iselmdead.info/, which says (emphasis added): > Elm’s release cycle is (very) slow on purpose. ... > While the language doesn’t get frequent updates (and that’s a good thing!), ... > Why is it a good thing that Elm doesn’t get frequent updates? First of all, it means your code will last a long time! It also means the language is very stable, because features are carefully thought out before being implemented. I have no problem with people enjoying Elm and acknowledging the bugs. I really dislike that this site gets posted every time people point out that there hasn't been an update in four years. A four-year break between updates is not "all part of the plan". It's not a slow release cycle. It's a sign that the creator ran out of steam but didn't want to delegate to a successor. You seem to be reasonable in your approach to Elm, and that's great. But there absolutely is a contingent that tries to pretend that this four-year hiatus is part of Evan's master plan for Elm and is "a good thing", and it's reasonable for the HN crowd to call that out as problematic.
afavour 3y ago
> Why is it a good thing that Elm doesn’t get frequent updates? First of all, it means your code will last a long time! Stockholm Syndrome at work
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Yes, Microsoft have made lots of updates but your 16 bit DOS game will still run. (Elm cannot run old Elm programs but to be fair Elm is on a prerelease alpha < 1.0 version)
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    I don't know of this is meant to be sarcasm or earnest. In either case, it's wrong. Modern Windows will not run 16-bit DOS applications. But they did run (in various levels of compatibility) until 32-bit Windows was fully sunset (Feb 2020, Win10).

Obligatory https://iselmdead.info/ https://iselmdead.info/

hu3 3y ago

We need a https://seriously-iselmdead.info https://seriously-iselmdead.info

riwsky 3y ago
isiselmdead.infodead.info

GaggiX 3y ago

I guess this site is also dead.

frozenlettuce 3y ago

Gotta love the cult of personality

klabb3 3y ago
Yeah sad. I appreciate the philosophy with slow careful releases and I also believe that people should be allowed to make unorthodox design choices in order to stay focused (or at least I’m not sure qualified to critique their choices). But, it seems like there’s a culture of taboo/fear/fanboyism which is clearly not healthy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  I don’t get what’s unhealthy about anything on that page. Elm’s trade offs are in plain sight. If you don’t want them, then you have plenty of warning. Frankly Elm has more of a problem with negative fanboying: people who have decided it’s not for them yet have to constantly show up to neener neener every time Elm appears on HN instead of just moving on. It’s very weird to me as someone who uses Elm daily. We get it. You don’t like it and everyone needs to know it. That it’s some sort of cult is just HN drama begging fantasy.
  - hu3 3y ago
    It's totally fine to run the project (or don't run) as the owner see fits and use it however one wants. But let's not pretend the project is actively maintained and there are no bugs. That's what klabb3 alludes to. Elm has this "this is fine" phenomenon where people like to pretend its a one-of-a-kind software that has no bugs doesn't even need a patch with bug fixes.
    - hombre_fatal 3y ago
      Do people pretend that? Or is it just an HN circlejerk that reports it be so? I'm a regular user of the Elm ecosystem, like the Slack/Discord, and everyone talks casually about Elm's bugs. In the #beginner channel it's just "Yeah oops that's def a known issue, but you can work around that with X." It's just that Elm is still a good tool despite its warts, and its bugs aren't catastrophic. Presumably that's the smoking gun for your "this is fine" phenomenon: that people still use it and dare to even enjoy it despite unfixed bugs.
      - awestroke 3y ago
        No, it's that Elm fans defend the decision to never fix those bugs
      - oxnrtr 3y ago
        Stockholm syndrome. You know ... normal people in normal projects would just fix the bugs?
      - lolinder 3y ago
        People absolutely pretend that! This whole subthread spun of from a discussion of https://iselmdead.info/ https://iselmdead.info/, which says (emphasis added): > Elm’s release cycle is (very) slow on purpose. ... > While the language doesn’t get frequent updates (and that’s a good thing!), ... > Why is it a good thing that Elm doesn’t get frequent updates? First of all, it means your code will last a long time! It also means the language is very stable, because features are carefully thought out before being implemented. I have no problem with people enjoying Elm and acknowledging the bugs. I really dislike that this site gets posted every time people point out that there hasn't been an update in four years. A four-year break between updates is not "all part of the plan". It's not a slow release cycle. It's a sign that the creator ran out of steam but didn't want to delegate to a successor. You seem to be reasonable in your approach to Elm, and that's great. But there absolutely is a contingent that tries to pretend that this four-year hiatus is part of Evan's master plan for Elm and is "a good thing", and it's reasonable for the HN crowd to call that out as problematic.

afavour 3y ago

> Why is it a good thing that Elm doesn’t get frequent updates? First of all, it means your code will last a long time! Stockholm Syndrome at work

quickthrower2 3y ago
Yes, Microsoft have made lots of updates but your 16 bit DOS game will still run. (Elm cannot run old Elm programs but to be fair Elm is on a prerelease alpha < 1.0 version)
- deaddodo 3y ago
  I don't know of this is meant to be sarcasm or earnest. In either case, it's wrong. Modern Windows will not run 16-bit DOS applications. But they did run (in various levels of compatibility) until 32-bit Windows was fully sunset (Feb 2020, Win10).