5 ms·

In the end, Mercedes assumes liability for its system, where Tesla doesn’t. Tells you all you need to know.

simondotau 3y ago
How exactly is Mercedes accepting liability? I mean to say, how does this work in practice? Who absorbs the demerit points if your car is accused of going 40 in a 30 zone?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > How exactly is Mercedes accepting liability? You’re indemnified.
  - kbos87 3y ago
    Mercedes can’t indemnify you. Local police and prosecutors make those decisions.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Nope. Local police and prosecutors have no authority to make decisions on liability. Their authority is limited to criminal matters. However, police reports can generally be used as evidence in civil trials where judges and juries make decisions about liability. There may be some circumstances where a driver operating a Mercedes-Benz vehicle using Drive Pilot could be committing a criminal offense. For example, I think sitting in the driver's seat while intoxicated would still be illegal even if you're not actually driving. But that is separate from liability.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Mercedes can’t indemnify you. Local police and prosecutors make those decisions Are you thinking of immunity? Indemnity is regularly contracted between private parties. (Also, police can’t give you immunity in America.)
wilg 3y ago
Is there evidence for this?
- DoesntMatter22 3y ago
  [flagged]
- djcannabiz 3y ago
  https://insideevs.com/news/575160/mercedes-accepts-legal-responsibility-drive-pilot/ https://insideevs.com/news/575160/mercedes-accepts-legal-res... "once a driver turns on Drive Pilot, they are "no longer legally liable for the car's operation until it disengages." The publication goes so far as to say that a driver could actually pay zero attention to the road ahead, play on their mobile phones, and even watch a movie. If the car were to crash, Mercedes would be 100 percent responsible."
  - wilg 3y ago
    Yes, but is there any evidence this is actually happening? Not that they announced it might a year ago.
    - wilg 3y ago
      Folks, don't downvote me, show me where Mercedes actually says they are taking liability for actual cars that are actually on the road with customers. What people cite on this is a vague marketing puff piece from a year ago. If they are doing it, it should be pretty easy to find out how that is structured from their website or whatever the car owner has signed, or just like literally any evidence whatsoever.
  - dmix 3y ago
    This explains the 40mph and other extreme restrictions
    - froh 3y ago
      for now, that is. in German they call it "traffic jam pilot" Staupilot. they start L3 autonomy with the boring and tedious scenario first. it's obvious they'll expand it to more and more freeway/highway driving scenarios, and from there grow into any out of town driving. meanwhile Waymo and Tesla can take their bruises with downtown traffic and pedestrians and children and hand drawn road signs and dirty signs and poorly placed ones and whichever more crazy real life reality show surprise guests appear on stage... I wouldn't (and I don't think you did but several others in such discussions do) snicker too much on Mercedes. they have a knack on getting a couple of car related things pretty right.
slg 3y ago
This doesn't mean the system is actually better. It just means that Mercedes thinks that the cost of covering the liability won't exceed the boost in sales that come from this decision. It reminds me of what an automotive innovator once said[1]: >Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside... Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me. Not that I'm implying Autopilot is necessarily a "quality product" in comparison. It is just that a guarantee or liability coverage is nothing but a marketing expense for the company issuing it. It doesn't actually mean the product is higher quality. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4
jpalomaki 3y ago
I can understand financial liability, but what if somebody gets seriously hurt and there’s criminal charges? Is there already a legal framework in US for transferring this kind of liabilities from the driver to manufacturer?
nathanasmith 3y ago
>Tells you all you need to know. Thanks for the subtle reminder that your statement is most definitely not "all I need to know."

How exactly is Mercedes accepting liability? I mean to say, how does this work in practice? Who absorbs the demerit points if your car is accused of going 40 in a 30 zone?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> How exactly is Mercedes accepting liability? You’re indemnified.
- kbos87 3y ago
  Mercedes can’t indemnify you. Local police and prosecutors make those decisions.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Nope. Local police and prosecutors have no authority to make decisions on liability. Their authority is limited to criminal matters. However, police reports can generally be used as evidence in civil trials where judges and juries make decisions about liability. There may be some circumstances where a driver operating a Mercedes-Benz vehicle using Drive Pilot could be committing a criminal offense. For example, I think sitting in the driver's seat while intoxicated would still be illegal even if you're not actually driving. But that is separate from liability.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Mercedes can’t indemnify you. Local police and prosecutors make those decisions Are you thinking of immunity? Indemnity is regularly contracted between private parties. (Also, police can’t give you immunity in America.)

wilg 3y ago

Is there evidence for this?

DoesntMatter22 3y ago
[flagged]
djcannabiz 3y ago
https://insideevs.com/news/575160/mercedes-accepts-legal-responsibility-drive-pilot/ https://insideevs.com/news/575160/mercedes-accepts-legal-res... "once a driver turns on Drive Pilot, they are "no longer legally liable for the car's operation until it disengages." The publication goes so far as to say that a driver could actually pay zero attention to the road ahead, play on their mobile phones, and even watch a movie. If the car were to crash, Mercedes would be 100 percent responsible."
- wilg 3y ago
  Yes, but is there any evidence this is actually happening? Not that they announced it might a year ago.
  - wilg 3y ago
    Folks, don't downvote me, show me where Mercedes actually says they are taking liability for actual cars that are actually on the road with customers. What people cite on this is a vague marketing puff piece from a year ago. If they are doing it, it should be pretty easy to find out how that is structured from their website or whatever the car owner has signed, or just like literally any evidence whatsoever.
- dmix 3y ago
  This explains the 40mph and other extreme restrictions
  - froh 3y ago
    for now, that is. in German they call it "traffic jam pilot" Staupilot. they start L3 autonomy with the boring and tedious scenario first. it's obvious they'll expand it to more and more freeway/highway driving scenarios, and from there grow into any out of town driving. meanwhile Waymo and Tesla can take their bruises with downtown traffic and pedestrians and children and hand drawn road signs and dirty signs and poorly placed ones and whichever more crazy real life reality show surprise guests appear on stage... I wouldn't (and I don't think you did but several others in such discussions do) snicker too much on Mercedes. they have a knack on getting a couple of car related things pretty right.

slg 3y ago

This doesn't mean the system is actually better. It just means that Mercedes thinks that the cost of covering the liability won't exceed the boost in sales that come from this decision. It reminds me of what an automotive innovator once said[1]: >Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside... Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me. Not that I'm implying Autopilot is necessarily a "quality product" in comparison. It is just that a guarantee or liability coverage is nothing but a marketing expense for the company issuing it. It doesn't actually mean the product is higher quality. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEB7WbTTlu4

jpalomaki 3y ago

I can understand financial liability, but what if somebody gets seriously hurt and there’s criminal charges? Is there already a legal framework in US for transferring this kind of liabilities from the driver to manufacturer?

nathanasmith 3y ago

>Tells you all you need to know. Thanks for the subtle reminder that your statement is most definitely not "all I need to know."