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Passthrough with a virtual computer screen was the most compelling use case we found when we tested the Meta Quest 2 as a team in a virtual office environment.

Passthrough with a virtual computer screen was the most compelling use case we found when we tested the Meta Quest 2 as a team in a virtual office environment. Having your screen projected in front of you in a virtual environment felt like the real game changer. So it really makes sense to me that Apple is going for AR with this crazy hi rez display because it gives you the ability to basically throw away all your screens and project as many as you want anywhere you like. Very exciting.

jejeyyy77 3y ago
Main issue isn't the resolution though - limiting factor is discomfort/fatigue of having this device/screens strapped an inch from your face.
- codybontecou 3y ago
  The main issue with the Quest 2 for me was the resolution. I didn't mind the headset nearly as much as the blurry text.
  - taskforcegemini 3y ago
    yeah.. a friend lent me his pico4, and while it is fine for games or other applications like googlemaps/streetview, I really do mind the optics. Blurry text disqualifies it for many usecases.
- akira2501 3y ago
  I'd agree. I tried one of those virtual desktop environments, the closed environment, the dense foam, buildup of heat and moisture just made it uncomfortable quickly. The battery life was an issue too, with the common recommendation being to get an external battery back on your belt with long cable and wire it into the headset. I think it would have to be something like immersive AR glasses on the order of glasses for simple corrective lenses to have the level of comfort necessary to not only want to use it, but use it long enough to actually be seeing a productivity increase.
- WatchDog 3y ago
  Resolution is a big issue, the quest 2 resolution is too low for me, that using it as a virtual monitor for productivity was a non starter.
- ramraj07 3y ago
  I'll be buying this the moment I can. I pretty much do my entire work lying down in my bed and if I can get all the screens I want with that, it's totally worth the 3500 for me.
  - veidr 3y ago
    Tangent, but I'm curious: why do you do your work lying down in bed? Do you mean this is how you prefer to work?
    - ramraj07 3y ago
      Yeah im pretty lazy lol. If I have the option to lie down I will. Wfh has not been easy with that.
      - veidr 3y ago
        Interesting! Not a use case I'd considered. But in that case, you must feel almost like they developed this device for you personally! ;-)
  - taskforcegemini 3y ago
    I have a screen hanging above my bed for that purpose. doing things lying on my back is easier on the back/neck
  - jejeyyy77 3y ago
    You can already do this with the Quest + BigScreen app w/ Remote Desktop. You'll be fatigue from having a screen on your face within an hr.
    - jclardy 3y ago
      The fatigue in the case of the quest will be because there is no eye tracking, so you constantly have to turn your head to get good focus (Only the center of the screen is fully rendered), the displays are of poor quality in terms of color accuracy, screen door effect and resolution, and the lenses have a very small sweet spot. In addition your eyes have to have one of three specific IPD measurements, otherwise you are by default not in the sweet spot.
deleted 3y ago
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6gvONxR4sf7o 3y ago
Do these passthrough displays give you a variable focal distance like the world does? As in, without the goggles, to focus on my dog, I have to focus about 10 feet away, but to focus on my hands I have to focus about 2 feet away. With passthrough, is it all effectively the same distance from me as far as focus is concerned?
- 0xr0kk3r 3y ago
  That's what I was wondering, what happens to your eyes natural lenses? do they need to contract to read the content or does it account for divergence so the muscles in your eyes can relax as if the screen is 20 feet away? Seems like that would be the case otherwise it would cause insane stress guess apple isn't dumb.
- Retric 3y ago
  That’s possible though even better would be to have independent control of focal lengths for different parts of each screen. https://www.optica.org/en-us/about/newsroom/news_releases/2022/september/variable_focus_thin_lens_designed_for_augmented_an/ https://www.optica.org/en-us/about/newsroom/news_releases/20... What’s hard to fathom is just good eye tracking can be on these systems and how many hacks such tracking enables. They can for example spend extra rendering time on the pixels in the center of your vision and update this fast enough that you don’t notice the difference. Similarly using adaptive focal control the screen can always be in focus no matter what depth you focus on.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Is there much point in having different parts of the screen at different focal distances? Couldn't that be simulated by just changing the focal depth at the fixation point and applying blur for other z distances? I guess that's easier for vr than ar and may tend to exaggerate any issues in the depth mapping.
    - Retric 3y ago
      For AR it depends on if you can see through the screen like Google glass or if it’s a VR headset with external cameras. With pass through you can’t change the facial length of the outside world, but you want to change it on your overlays. In terms of VR it depends on how well you can pull off the blur based on eye tracking vs how much control you have over focal lengths. A perfect version of either is probably equivalent, but doing both reasonably well is probably easier than taking just one close to perfection.
losvedir 3y ago
I'm just imagining the equivalent of "screensharing" with this setup. Remote workers could get the "over the shoulder" pairing vibe we used to have in office, by opening a "portal" over your shoulder, and both looking at the displays and turning and talking to each other. Both people could even point at the display.
0x000xca0xfe 3y ago
I think the real value proposition of VR in general is "like a big monitor, but it fits in your backpack and you can use it everywhere" and not the successor to smartphones. Direct social interactions seem really... creepy. It somehow appears rude, like looking at your phone while speaking or pointing a smartphone in someone's direction while potentially filming them. But if this device enables WFH in the garden/nature where it's too bright for laptops or installing a desktop would be impractical, now that sounds great!
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  Direct social interaction while wearing things on one’s face will become second nature as quickly as interactions while wearing AirPods (or a Covid mask). This is better than a Covid mask in that even Version 1 lets people see “behind the mask”, kind of. By version 14 it’ll be so completely natural that it won’t occur to anybody on HN to even comment on this aspect of it.
- jbc1 3y ago
  This is why I find all the comments I see on here about needing a killer app baffling. We already value both screen real estate and portability. Devices already compete on both.
ravenstine 3y ago
Let's just hope they don't half-ass it like pretty much every AR product that ever was. Maybe my standards are way too high, but I've yet to use a VR/AR that wasn't obviously just designed to make C-level execs and investors shout "gee whiz!" and little else. I would like an AR device that acts as a monitor for my Macbook or phone, isn't so heavy that it pinches my nose or strains my neck, isn't pixely, has a wide field of view with low-to-no distortion, and overall doesn't feel like a McDonald's Happy Meal toy.
- dgreensp 3y ago
  I think you’re in their target market, because by all appearances they went super high-end and engineered the crap out of this thing!
  - FeetYeet 3y ago
    Yes except it’s built out of metal and glass, so it’s definitely not light
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      I wonder how much it will cost to replace a cracked eyeball screen.
    - MaxikCZ 3y ago
      I am surprised they went for aluminium and not magnesium alloy. Quick google shows metal parts could be about 30% lighter.
SirMaster 3y ago
But if I do the math compared to my normal desktop monitor in pixels per FOV, the headset comes nowhere near close to a normal desktop setup. You would have to make your virtual monitors pretty big in order to have a lot of comfortably readable content and that sounds like an ergonomics nightmare to be moving your neck around all day looking all around your virtual screens.

jejeyyy77 3y ago

Main issue isn't the resolution though - limiting factor is discomfort/fatigue of having this device/screens strapped an inch from your face.

codybontecou 3y ago
The main issue with the Quest 2 for me was the resolution. I didn't mind the headset nearly as much as the blurry text.
- taskforcegemini 3y ago
  yeah.. a friend lent me his pico4, and while it is fine for games or other applications like googlemaps/streetview, I really do mind the optics. Blurry text disqualifies it for many usecases.
akira2501 3y ago
I'd agree. I tried one of those virtual desktop environments, the closed environment, the dense foam, buildup of heat and moisture just made it uncomfortable quickly. The battery life was an issue too, with the common recommendation being to get an external battery back on your belt with long cable and wire it into the headset. I think it would have to be something like immersive AR glasses on the order of glasses for simple corrective lenses to have the level of comfort necessary to not only want to use it, but use it long enough to actually be seeing a productivity increase.
WatchDog 3y ago
Resolution is a big issue, the quest 2 resolution is too low for me, that using it as a virtual monitor for productivity was a non starter.
ramraj07 3y ago
I'll be buying this the moment I can. I pretty much do my entire work lying down in my bed and if I can get all the screens I want with that, it's totally worth the 3500 for me.
- veidr 3y ago
  Tangent, but I'm curious: why do you do your work lying down in bed? Do you mean this is how you prefer to work?
  - ramraj07 3y ago
    Yeah im pretty lazy lol. If I have the option to lie down I will. Wfh has not been easy with that.
    - veidr 3y ago
      Interesting! Not a use case I'd considered. But in that case, you must feel almost like they developed this device for you personally! ;-)
- taskforcegemini 3y ago
  I have a screen hanging above my bed for that purpose. doing things lying on my back is easier on the back/neck
- jejeyyy77 3y ago
  You can already do this with the Quest + BigScreen app w/ Remote Desktop. You'll be fatigue from having a screen on your face within an hr.
  - jclardy 3y ago
    The fatigue in the case of the quest will be because there is no eye tracking, so you constantly have to turn your head to get good focus (Only the center of the screen is fully rendered), the displays are of poor quality in terms of color accuracy, screen door effect and resolution, and the lenses have a very small sweet spot. In addition your eyes have to have one of three specific IPD measurements, otherwise you are by default not in the sweet spot.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

6gvONxR4sf7o 3y ago

Do these passthrough displays give you a variable focal distance like the world does? As in, without the goggles, to focus on my dog, I have to focus about 10 feet away, but to focus on my hands I have to focus about 2 feet away. With passthrough, is it all effectively the same distance from me as far as focus is concerned?

0xr0kk3r 3y ago
That's what I was wondering, what happens to your eyes natural lenses? do they need to contract to read the content or does it account for divergence so the muscles in your eyes can relax as if the screen is 20 feet away? Seems like that would be the case otherwise it would cause insane stress guess apple isn't dumb.
Retric 3y ago
That’s possible though even better would be to have independent control of focal lengths for different parts of each screen. https://www.optica.org/en-us/about/newsroom/news_releases/2022/september/variable_focus_thin_lens_designed_for_augmented_an/ https://www.optica.org/en-us/about/newsroom/news_releases/20... What’s hard to fathom is just good eye tracking can be on these systems and how many hacks such tracking enables. They can for example spend extra rendering time on the pixels in the center of your vision and update this fast enough that you don’t notice the difference. Similarly using adaptive focal control the screen can always be in focus no matter what depth you focus on.
- thfuran 3y ago
  Is there much point in having different parts of the screen at different focal distances? Couldn't that be simulated by just changing the focal depth at the fixation point and applying blur for other z distances? I guess that's easier for vr than ar and may tend to exaggerate any issues in the depth mapping.
  - Retric 3y ago
    For AR it depends on if you can see through the screen like Google glass or if it’s a VR headset with external cameras. With pass through you can’t change the facial length of the outside world, but you want to change it on your overlays. In terms of VR it depends on how well you can pull off the blur based on eye tracking vs how much control you have over focal lengths. A perfect version of either is probably equivalent, but doing both reasonably well is probably easier than taking just one close to perfection.

losvedir 3y ago

I'm just imagining the equivalent of "screensharing" with this setup. Remote workers could get the "over the shoulder" pairing vibe we used to have in office, by opening a "portal" over your shoulder, and both looking at the displays and turning and talking to each other. Both people could even point at the display.

0x000xca0xfe 3y ago

I think the real value proposition of VR in general is "like a big monitor, but it fits in your backpack and you can use it everywhere" and not the successor to smartphones. Direct social interactions seem really... creepy. It somehow appears rude, like looking at your phone while speaking or pointing a smartphone in someone's direction while potentially filming them. But if this device enables WFH in the garden/nature where it's too bright for laptops or installing a desktop would be impractical, now that sounds great!

unsupp0rted 3y ago
Direct social interaction while wearing things on one’s face will become second nature as quickly as interactions while wearing AirPods (or a Covid mask). This is better than a Covid mask in that even Version 1 lets people see “behind the mask”, kind of. By version 14 it’ll be so completely natural that it won’t occur to anybody on HN to even comment on this aspect of it.
jbc1 3y ago
This is why I find all the comments I see on here about needing a killer app baffling. We already value both screen real estate and portability. Devices already compete on both.

ravenstine 3y ago

Let's just hope they don't half-ass it like pretty much every AR product that ever was. Maybe my standards are way too high, but I've yet to use a VR/AR that wasn't obviously just designed to make C-level execs and investors shout "gee whiz!" and little else. I would like an AR device that acts as a monitor for my Macbook or phone, isn't so heavy that it pinches my nose or strains my neck, isn't pixely, has a wide field of view with low-to-no distortion, and overall doesn't feel like a McDonald's Happy Meal toy.

dgreensp 3y ago
I think you’re in their target market, because by all appearances they went super high-end and engineered the crap out of this thing!
- FeetYeet 3y ago
  Yes except it’s built out of metal and glass, so it’s definitely not light
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    I wonder how much it will cost to replace a cracked eyeball screen.
  - MaxikCZ 3y ago
    I am surprised they went for aluminium and not magnesium alloy. Quick google shows metal parts could be about 30% lighter.

SirMaster 3y ago

But if I do the math compared to my normal desktop monitor in pixels per FOV, the headset comes nowhere near close to a normal desktop setup. You would have to make your virtual monitors pretty big in order to have a lot of comfortably readable content and that sounds like an ergonomics nightmare to be moving your neck around all day looking all around your virtual screens.