8 ms·

The Opt Out Project

161 points by WallyFunk 3y ago

Backing5890 3y ago
I like the premise of the site but the "The Opt Out Way to Use Email" even mentioning using LastPass despite their multiple breaches makes me question this site.
- eddiequinn 3y ago
  I think what needs to be appreciated is that the vast majority of people don't use any password manager. LastPass inspite of its many red-flags is still better than nothing, and is usually a good starting point for a less tech-savy person. Within the context of this site what needs to be accounted for is their target audience. If it's aimed at people new to the whole idea of cyber security then it makes sense, but if it's aimed at more experienced users then yes 100% LastPass is a terrible suggestion.
  - dotcoma 3y ago
    Is LastPass simpler to use than BitWarden ?
    - prometheanfire 3y ago
      Not in my experience.
  - computerfriend 3y ago
    It's not better than nothing if it leaks all your passwords.
  - lrvick 3y ago
    People are literally better off with dice and some paper than using LastPass
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Nadboy1 3y ago
    Sorry but this is terrible advice. LastPass had a huge breach with website data included along with many breaches over the past years. Please look into them further.
  - o1y32 3y ago
    Why do you bother to write such a long, meaningless comment when other free/paid password managers are easily available? What's the point and what are you advocating for?
- o1y32 3y ago
  To me, the "casual blog post" format is a turn off, and I don't think the website is effective at all. Instead of random advice showing up in random posts that read like stories, the website needs simple, succinct and highly organized guides that people can easily follow.
predictabl3 3y ago
I want "noiwillnot.com" and have it be a very simple site, with a list of offenders, and a I pledge/declaration: "No, I will host or join OSS communities on closed proprietary platforms. Never again. No, I will not join your Discord. No, I will not participate in your subreddit. No, I will not follow your project updates on Twitter." Matrix, Discourse, and Mastodon exist are are used very successfully by a number of high profile projects. They don't force me to use proprietary, inaccessible, insecure, Electron-ridden clients. They don't force me into draconian privacy policies. They don't force me to prop up VC-funded money pits that will eventually come back around to extract anything they can. They don't treat the closed edges of their platforms as moats by which they can, ooh yeah, build a user base and then eventually hinder the experience in order to extract their deserved profits. These things matter but people are so short-sighted and forgetful that they just jump from proprietary platform (cough, password managers are another great example), and then inevitably have to jump ship again in N years. Maybe I'm the odd one, but I'd much rather invest a bit more upfront, and deal with UX growing pains, than keeping throwing my knowledge, time, overall investment into a pit that ends up burned by capitalism.
- TylerE 3y ago
  That sounds incredibly toxic. Where do you get off on telling volunteers how to allocate their precious limited resources?
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    They're not telling anyone to do anything, they're declaring that they won't join that community.
  - predictabl3 3y ago
    The other reply is correct. It's about raising awareness that these choices have consequences and motivating others to raise their voice about the importance of open platforms for building open communities and open software. Also, I think hosting an OSS community in non-accessible, proprietary user-hostile platforms is more toxic than... pointing out the originating toxicity.
nestock 3y ago
Opt out by opting in to my newsletter
paulryanrogers 3y ago
StartPage may not be so anonymous now that it's owned by an ad company. Still, nice to see folks thinking about ways to be more private.
dcreater 3y ago
I support the goal but the info in this site is horribly superficial or misinformed or straight up wrong. Duckduckgo? Thats already more of the same. They made a deal with Microsoft for God's sake.
nologic01 3y ago
We need a name for the place people go when they "opt out". A positive and defined "somewhere" instead of a negation and a landscape with a random collection of hacks. Getting the diverse, opinionated and variedly incentivised open source communities to agree on thinking as a unified "something" is like herding cats. But its high time that the desirability and existence of an "opt out" is recognized formally and that won't happen without large scale coherence. Maybe even the notion "open source" is not longer helpful towards that end. Big tech has inflirtated and one way or another "sponsors" pretty much every major open source initiative. The starting point is data sovereignty and privacy, but more fundamentally, what we need is agency in the use of information technologies.
- perilunar 3y ago
  “Digital Autarchy” perhaps?
  - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
    Even as a native speaker, “autarchy” is difficult to pronounce in an intelligible manner. And even if I do sufficiently contort my facial muscles to pronounce that word, it’s esoteric even for the nerdiest of audiences. It’ll never fly.
    - rnaarten 3y ago
      [dead]
- mtsolitary 3y ago
  Digital sovereignty
  - rationalist 3y ago
    Might be caught-up woth the negative perception of "sovereign citizens".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
microtonal 3y ago
People will never opt out from big tech at a large scale. Sure, if I was a hermit or didn't live in The Netherlands I could opt out of WhatsApp. But all group communications happen in WhatsApp, eg. school stuff and play dates for our daughter, sport practice/match coordination, etc. To opt out of WhatsApp basically means opting out of a social life. Once products are so deeply woven into society that it is not possible to lead a normal life without them, they basically become common infrastructure/utilities. The solution is to regulate privacy requirements (like eg. the GDPR does) and pricing (where applicable).
- amelius 3y ago
  But is WhatsApp really a social media platform like the others? I think of it more as a (group) messaging app. It is not shoving any unsolicited content in my face, so I think it plays fairly nicely. If this were to change, I think there will be huge complaints and people would move elsewhere.
o1y32 3y ago
At the end of each article "Follow me on Twitter or Mastodon, or get my newsletter." No, I'm not kidding, it's there. That is exactly why we come to this website to "opt out" of things, right?
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  Logically the people who want to "opt out" (as opposed to those who have already opted out) will be on places like twitter.
godzillafarts 3y ago
I like the general idea and also try to conceal my identity as much as reasonably possible when out in the world. However, not having a smartphone just isn’t an option for a lot of parents. I’ve long wanted to ditch my iPhone and get a dumb flip phone, but my infant son’s daycare uses three (!) smartphone apps for critical services. Think checking in/out, door access, critical communications, payments. There are no alternatives; you can’t do anything of these things outside of their respective app.
- beebeepka 3y ago
  Dear gawd, you need a smartphone app to enter the kindergarden? Guess I've been out of touch for a while.
Aldipower 3y ago
Opt in to opt out. Very funny. I do not need a newsletter to say to no.
pmoriarty 3y ago
The right thing should be the easiest thing to do. Yet we live in a world designed in such a way that the easiest thing is to do is giving away your data, throwing away your privacy, and giving a tiny minority of people enormous power over us.
amelius 3y ago
We need to stimulate or else force companies to make honest products and services again. Like a true divide between those who make hardware/software, and those that run it. Like in the old days of the internet, where companies such as DEC made the equipment and universities and government agencies ran software on them. Another approach is to ban all user tracking. We have to ask ourselves, do we really need those highly targeted ads? And do we really need this invisible force that nudges people to consume more in this age of climate worries? It's the same force that sucks people down these spirals of hurtful online content.

161 points by WallyFunk 3y ago

I like the premise of the site but the "The Opt Out Way to Use Email" even mentioning using LastPass despite their multiple breaches makes me question this site.

eddiequinn 3y ago
I think what needs to be appreciated is that the vast majority of people don't use any password manager. LastPass inspite of its many red-flags is still better than nothing, and is usually a good starting point for a less tech-savy person. Within the context of this site what needs to be accounted for is their target audience. If it's aimed at people new to the whole idea of cyber security then it makes sense, but if it's aimed at more experienced users then yes 100% LastPass is a terrible suggestion.
- dotcoma 3y ago
  Is LastPass simpler to use than BitWarden ?
  - prometheanfire 3y ago
    Not in my experience.
- computerfriend 3y ago
  It's not better than nothing if it leaks all your passwords.
- lrvick 3y ago
  People are literally better off with dice and some paper than using LastPass
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Nadboy1 3y ago
  Sorry but this is terrible advice. LastPass had a huge breach with website data included along with many breaches over the past years. Please look into them further.
- o1y32 3y ago
  Why do you bother to write such a long, meaningless comment when other free/paid password managers are easily available? What's the point and what are you advocating for?
o1y32 3y ago
To me, the "casual blog post" format is a turn off, and I don't think the website is effective at all. Instead of random advice showing up in random posts that read like stories, the website needs simple, succinct and highly organized guides that people can easily follow.

predictabl3 3y ago

I want "noiwillnot.com" and have it be a very simple site, with a list of offenders, and a I pledge/declaration: "No, I will host or join OSS communities on closed proprietary platforms. Never again. No, I will not join your Discord. No, I will not participate in your subreddit. No, I will not follow your project updates on Twitter." Matrix, Discourse, and Mastodon exist are are used very successfully by a number of high profile projects. They don't force me to use proprietary, inaccessible, insecure, Electron-ridden clients. They don't force me into draconian privacy policies. They don't force me to prop up VC-funded money pits that will eventually come back around to extract anything they can. They don't treat the closed edges of their platforms as moats by which they can, ooh yeah, build a user base and then eventually hinder the experience in order to extract their deserved profits. These things matter but people are so short-sighted and forgetful that they just jump from proprietary platform (cough, password managers are another great example), and then inevitably have to jump ship again in N years. Maybe I'm the odd one, but I'd much rather invest a bit more upfront, and deal with UX growing pains, than keeping throwing my knowledge, time, overall investment into a pit that ends up burned by capitalism.

TylerE 3y ago
That sounds incredibly toxic. Where do you get off on telling volunteers how to allocate their precious limited resources?
- nerdponx 3y ago
  They're not telling anyone to do anything, they're declaring that they won't join that community.
- predictabl3 3y ago
  The other reply is correct. It's about raising awareness that these choices have consequences and motivating others to raise their voice about the importance of open platforms for building open communities and open software. Also, I think hosting an OSS community in non-accessible, proprietary user-hostile platforms is more toxic than... pointing out the originating toxicity.

nestock 3y ago

Opt out by opting in to my newsletter

paulryanrogers 3y ago

StartPage may not be so anonymous now that it's owned by an ad company. Still, nice to see folks thinking about ways to be more private.

dcreater 3y ago

I support the goal but the info in this site is horribly superficial or misinformed or straight up wrong. Duckduckgo? Thats already more of the same. They made a deal with Microsoft for God's sake.

nologic01 3y ago

We need a name for the place people go when they "opt out". A positive and defined "somewhere" instead of a negation and a landscape with a random collection of hacks. Getting the diverse, opinionated and variedly incentivised open source communities to agree on thinking as a unified "something" is like herding cats. But its high time that the desirability and existence of an "opt out" is recognized formally and that won't happen without large scale coherence. Maybe even the notion "open source" is not longer helpful towards that end. Big tech has inflirtated and one way or another "sponsors" pretty much every major open source initiative. The starting point is data sovereignty and privacy, but more fundamentally, what we need is agency in the use of information technologies.

perilunar 3y ago
“Digital Autarchy” perhaps?
- yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
  Even as a native speaker, “autarchy” is difficult to pronounce in an intelligible manner. And even if I do sufficiently contort my facial muscles to pronounce that word, it’s esoteric even for the nerdiest of audiences. It’ll never fly.
  - rnaarten 3y ago
    [dead]
mtsolitary 3y ago
Digital sovereignty
- rationalist 3y ago
  Might be caught-up woth the negative perception of "sovereign citizens".
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

microtonal 3y ago

People will never opt out from big tech at a large scale. Sure, if I was a hermit or didn't live in The Netherlands I could opt out of WhatsApp. But all group communications happen in WhatsApp, eg. school stuff and play dates for our daughter, sport practice/match coordination, etc. To opt out of WhatsApp basically means opting out of a social life. Once products are so deeply woven into society that it is not possible to lead a normal life without them, they basically become common infrastructure/utilities. The solution is to regulate privacy requirements (like eg. the GDPR does) and pricing (where applicable).

amelius 3y ago
But is WhatsApp really a social media platform like the others? I think of it more as a (group) messaging app. It is not shoving any unsolicited content in my face, so I think it plays fairly nicely. If this were to change, I think there will be huge complaints and people would move elsewhere.

o1y32 3y ago

At the end of each article "Follow me on Twitter or Mastodon, or get my newsletter." No, I'm not kidding, it's there. That is exactly why we come to this website to "opt out" of things, right?

RobotToaster 3y ago
Logically the people who want to "opt out" (as opposed to those who have already opted out) will be on places like twitter.

godzillafarts 3y ago

I like the general idea and also try to conceal my identity as much as reasonably possible when out in the world. However, not having a smartphone just isn’t an option for a lot of parents. I’ve long wanted to ditch my iPhone and get a dumb flip phone, but my infant son’s daycare uses three (!) smartphone apps for critical services. Think checking in/out, door access, critical communications, payments. There are no alternatives; you can’t do anything of these things outside of their respective app.

beebeepka 3y ago
Dear gawd, you need a smartphone app to enter the kindergarden? Guess I've been out of touch for a while.

Aldipower 3y ago

Opt in to opt out. Very funny. I do not need a newsletter to say to no.

pmoriarty 3y ago

The right thing should be the easiest thing to do. Yet we live in a world designed in such a way that the easiest thing is to do is giving away your data, throwing away your privacy, and giving a tiny minority of people enormous power over us.

amelius 3y ago

We need to stimulate or else force companies to make honest products and services again. Like a true divide between those who make hardware/software, and those that run it. Like in the old days of the internet, where companies such as DEC made the equipment and universities and government agencies ran software on them. Another approach is to ban all user tracking. We have to ask ourselves, do we really need those highly targeted ads? And do we really need this invisible force that nudges people to consume more in this age of climate worries? It's the same force that sucks people down these spirals of hurtful online content.