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‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment
- aSithLord 3y agoEven the parks are getting sucked down into the mire.. They stupidly made Ride of the Resistance based on the new trilogy.. teaming up with the worst characters in Star Wars is not a winning ride..
- 0zemp3c 3y agoits a tired cliche but Disney really did run right into "get woke, go broke" I've seen interviews with the directory of She-Hulk where she seems to revel in the fact that the "fandom" was crapping all over her show... "this will piss off all the right people!" is not a business strategy they really did kill Star Wars Marvel too its probably too late to save either, as Disney thinks more bad, woke content is the answer to too much bad, woke content its not clear to me why they can't replace Kennedy...its like she has an envelope with compromising photos and can't be fired or something...they should have exited her out long ago but keep protecting her
- knorker 3y agoShe's 70, so she'll be able to retire and never have to face the fact that she's an Adam Neumann-sized net loss to the world.
- googlryas 3y agoShe-hulk is a comedy series on a streaming-only platform. Their Star Wars movies consistently make >$500M, and that says nothing of the merchandising, amusement parks, and other tie-ins. I think they're going to be okay.
- 0zemp3c 3y agohuh? Solo LOST money
- googlryas 3y agoYes, of the 5 modern star wars movies, Solo "only" made $213M. The other 4 made over $500M each. And Solo lost money because they claimed it was ludicrously expensive. $213M is a solid amount for 99% of movies. Anyways, was it actually that expensive, or is it just Hollywood accounting?
- beezlewax 3y agoThe mandelorian is pretty fun in fairness.
- causi 3y agoYeah but its fun is done. They already spent the last season setting up Mando's departure from the show.
- notatoad 3y agoit is, but it's also an example of what a wasted opportunity the rest of the star wars franchise has been. The mandalorian is what happens when you have a solid plan for the story you want to tell and how to tell it, and you execute that plan. the sequels are what happen when you don't.
- no_wizard 3y agoIt's lost alot of drive in the plot though. Seems to be losing alot of steam after this last season concluded.
- d3ckard 3y agoThe new trilogy killed my interest in the franchise and I was a lifelong fan.
- fumar 3y agoAndor was good. It didn't need Star Was as its universe, but it is perhaps the best Star Wars anything in the last two decades.
- stuckinhell 3y agoWas it ? My husband was a huge Star Wars fan, and didn't say anything about it. I might get it for him.
- archagon 3y agoI loved it — thought it was some of the best sci-fi TV in the last decade. And I really dislike almost every bit of Star Wars media post original trilogy.
- rado 3y agoAbandoned it after 2 episodes, because everyone was grumpy, sad and serious all the time. Ridiculous.
- dr-detroit 3y ago
- axblount 3y ago"Somehow, Lucasfilm is struggling."
- anankaie 3y ago> “The problem isn’t Kathleen Kennedy.” I am not entirely sure that matters. Pissed-off fans undoubtedly want to see metaphorical blood for what, to their eyes, was a forced, ideologically-driven tarnishing of their childhood memories. At the end of the day, the buck stops at the top. Chapman was already punted as a general scapegoat, but is it enough?
- Timon3 3y ago> a forced, ideologically-driven tarnishing of their childhood memories I'm sure there is a minority that believes this, but the majority know that there is no ideological drive, only a greed one. Alignment with current social issues happens based on calculations of profit, not based on sincere ideological commitment. Making good movies is hard, making movies following current social issues is easy. Both bring money, one is a lot more consistent - and the negative press keeps the properties in the media far longer than they usually would.
- garbagecoder 3y agoDefinitely some people were put off by the ideological bent to it. I found it slightly grating (and I'm a center-left type), but I could have excused it if there was anything else to the films. The first one seemed promising if finished, but the rest were just sloppy. In other words, it's not like an unwoke version of those films would have been good. Like, they resorted to bringing Palpatine back. That's not being fixed by changing Finn's race, Rey's gender, or that one chick's hair color or whatever else people are upset about who stole the Picard Maneuver. Every popular movie gets leveled with some criticism about its politics. But just like most of my computing tools, I really care more about whether they work than whether the company posts a logo I agree or disagree with. Here the second two especially were just trash movies that put the elements of the universe in a blender.
- norwalkbear 3y agoMaking it less woke would have made it successful with one simple trick . Let Luke be a positive male hero.
- wnevets 3y agoThe movies have been quite profitable even after Hollywood accounting. Without even talking about licensing and merchandising, how much more money were the movies supposed to make?
- dr-detroit 3y ago[dead]
- aimor 3y agoI think it's more that Disney noticed they were losing momentum with Star Wars and decided to delay or cut theatrical projects planned for 2020 - 2024. "Too much too fast" was the line from Bob after Solo was released. "We will take a pause, some time, and reset... there will be a bit of a hiatus." Covid probably had a role too, and the success of the Mandalorian. The Boba Fett film became a streaming series, the Kenobi film became a streaming series.
- cruxluna 3y agoConsidered they paid 4 billion for the franchise alone, I think they wanted more.
- stuckinhell 3y agoDisney acquired Lucasfilm, the production company founded by Lucas, on October 30, 2012 for a reported $4.05 billion https://en.as.com/latest_news/how-much-did-george-lucas-sell-star-wars-for-when-did-disney-buy-lucasfilm-n/#:~:text=Disney%20acquired%20Lucasfilm%2C%20the%20production,for%20a%20reported%20%244.05%20billion https://en.as.com/latest_news/how-much-did-george-lucas-sell.... I'm assuming they expect a lot of money. (I actually couldn't believe what that dead comment said, so I googled it).
- daodedickinson 3y agoHow about a Grim Fandango movie? Or a Sam & Max or Monkey Island movie?
- TheFattestNinja 3y agoVery easy to do a shamble in the eyes of fans, very hard to attract other people who didnt play the games.
- no_wizard 3y agoAs a counterpoint, look at the massive cross cultural success of the Last Of Us on HBO. My SO never played the games, nor heard of them, yet loved the show quite dearly, saying multiple times to anyone who would listen that its one of the best TV shows of all time she's ever seen, and it takes alot to get that kind of praise from her.
- norwalkbear 3y agoI don't know anyone under 35 who likes that show
- no_wizard 3y agoAnecdotal evidence: Myself and my SO are both under 35. Most of our friends like the show, and they range from 26-41. I know one of my best friends, who's cousins kids watched the show intently, all between 16-20, as he told me. It was also a weekly discussion point in our friend groups, it was fairly actively engaged. It was also a gangbuster for ratings[0] and is number 6 on the Nielsen streaming stats[1] with a staggering 837 Million Minutes watched in a fairly short period of time. Willing to bet you don't really "get there" without a healthy amount of people under 35 watching this show. [0]: https://gizmodo.com/last-of-us-finale-hbo-max-pedro-pascal-highest-ratings-1850221578 https://gizmodo.com/last-of-us-finale-hbo-max-pedro-pascal-h... [1]: https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-nielsen-streaming-top-10-1235525250/ https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-nielsen-stre...
- skizm 3y agoThe force awakens grossed above $2B, and the next two grossed around $1B each. Their budgets were around $250-300M. They'll be fine.
- bluedevil2k 3y agoCompare those numbers to Marvel and you’ll see what a wasted opportunity they created.
- dogma1138 3y agoI think you’re overestimating how much money reach marvel flick brought in there were huge but also many that didn’t break 1B WW box office revenue. The big difference between Marvel and SW is that Disney was churning out far more Marvel films especially in Phase 2 and 3 https://m.imdb.com/list/ls040671689/ https://m.imdb.com/list/ls040671689/
- bluedevil2k 3y agoMCU movies have made $29.1B for Disney (revenue). That’s a lot in my book.
- dogma1138 3y ago$29.1B for 29 films (technically 32 but Disney has bough marvel only in 2009) vs $4.4B for 3 films in the new trilogy, it doesn’t seem to be that much of a difference overall. Rogue one also grossed over $1B the only SW box office bomb so far was Solo which grossed just under $400M but Marvel movies also had their bombs too.
- causi 3y agoForce Awakens had a lot fewer of the glaring plot holes and forced social activism of the second two.
- bluedevil2k 3y ago> At the heart of this mess is Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy Took too long for the article to mention this. How can she possibly still have a job? It was her call to hire 3 different directors for the sequels (initially, I know Abrams came back) with no agreed upon direction of the plot. Complain about Rian Johnson’s (awful) episode 8, but ultimately it was Kennedy that gave him free reins to do what he wanted. It’s just mind boggling that the very same company that’s done an amazing job building a unified “universe” with Marvel by Kevin Feige has done such an awful job with Star Wars by Kennedy.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoThe problem is that her resume of successful productions is strangely amazing for how she's run Star Wars. Gremlins; E.T.; Indiana Jones; Jurassic Park; Twister; Schindler's List; Back To The Future; etc. Presumably, it's partially because she hitched along as Producer for almost all Spielberg films and it did her career wonders by association. So who is the replacement? She's produced on so many successful series that her Star Wars ineptitude is heartbreaking. You need to find someone with a better resume; and if you can't, what's your criteria for picking a replacement if nobody is qualified replace her on previous merits?
- bluedevil2k 3y agoA resume only tells you what she did in the past (or way past in her case), not what she could potentially do in the future. And not to sound ageist (I’m old as well), but she’s almost 70 and at some point she won’t be in touch with what “the kids” want any longer. Feige is 50 for comparison. I know I don’t always understand why my kids like certain things nowadays.
- runesofdoom 3y agoYou want the showrunners for Rings of Power instead? Amazon went for the best mix of young, talented and well-rexommended they could find, and they blew it.
- stephc_int13 3y agoNot everything is lost yet. Rogue One was not that bad. And Andor was actually good, much better than I expected.
- marianatom 3y agoHarvard Business Review will do a case study on Disney on how to best avoid tackling a new customer segment and piss off/insult your core users at the same time
- petee 3y agoWhere Starwars lost me: horrible 3D redos of the original movies, but no redo-redo now that 3D doesnt suck. And lately is "Sasquach Starwars Body Soap" comeon, how pathetic.
- the_doctah 3y agoDoes anyone actually think the problem stops at LucasFilm? It's Disney. They're ruining Marvel properties as well. They care more about pushing progressive ideologies than making a return on investment. How many bad movies and TV shows are they going to push out and then blame bigots when their propaganda fails to entertain? And then they can't even practice what they preach, removing black actors from posters to placate countries like China. Disney needs to fail.
- cma 3y agoDidn't Stan Lee push for lots of progressive change, often through his work?
- ihsw 3y agoThere is a difference between the progressive ideals of the previous generation and the current generation, if anything the current generation of progress ideology is more regressive than anything else.
- pneill 3y agoTo some extend that's true, but it was always in service of the story. What's happening at Disney is just the opposite - they're randomly inserting ideological stuff which has no relation to the story or they're contorting stories in support of an ideological narrative. And I don't care what your politics are, but when you insert politics into a story, your gonna alienate a major part of your audience OR you're going to the ruin the product experience of consuming TV. When people sit down to watch TV, they just want to relax and escape. Inserting politics, pulls people out of that and gets their blood pressure up. Who needs that? We don't need a "very special episode of.." every week.
- mcphage 3y ago> they're randomly inserting ideological stuff which has no relation to the story or they're contorting stories in support of an ideological narrative Which bits in particular is this a reference to?
- adsfgiodsnrio 3y ago>The third Skywalker trilogy started off with a bang in late 2015 with The Force Awakens, only to end with a whimper four years later as fans deserted the franchise. The Rise of Skywalker grossed over a billion dollars at the box office. The current crop of TV shows are some of the most popular things on TV. That isn't what I'd call "desertion". Disney can milk Star Wars for years to come. It wouldn't surprise me if they've already made back their investment. The five Disney Star Wars movies have made over $4 billion gross. That's not accounting for the parks or merchandising. I don't see any doom and gloom here for Disney. Things are bad for the moviegoing public, sure, but Disney is doing fine.
- norwalkbear 3y agoThe star wars hotel is a billion dollar loss.
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoExactly, people need to stop pretending Star Wars is something it isn't. It ain't high science fiction, it ain't some coherent canon of beautiful authentic story telling. Apart from Rogue One and Andor, it's space shows for kids. The plots never made total sense, the acting was always corny, the writing wasn't exactly tight. All the way back to A New Hope. It's pew-pew-pew blasters in space, bad guys vs good guys, etc. I hated the sequels, they were awful, each in their own unique way. Abrams makes garbage stories from whatever he touches these days. But he makes garbage that makes money, and that's really what it's about. Public hands over $$, gets to see shiny space battles with a dose of nostalgia. That's what they're paying for, whether the true fans complain or not. Myself, I hated the prequels, too, but I rewatched them recently with my adolescent son, though, and he was fine with them and, yeah... because as cheez and corny and incoherent as they were, that's what Star Wars is. I'll save my purism for Dune.
- runesofdoom 3y agoOnly he doesn't make as much money as his employers expected. Star Wars Episode IX should have made Avengers Endame box office, and it barely cracked a billion. Yes, a billion is a ton of money, but I'll bet Disney had projections and Rise of Skywalker fell short. His resume certainly looks pretty slim post-Star Wars.
- drunner 3y agoWhatever the process was for Andor, do that for everything else.
- leashless 3y agoAt the end of the day, nobody's left who understands what Star Wars is about. It's a ship adrift. Marvel works because of the endless nerd wrangling in the comics world imposing narrative discipline and critical standards. Plus the crappy stories don't make it to the big screen. Star Wars just doesn't have that: it's a cathedral and there's no bishop, vs. the much more bazaar and bizarre comic book processes. Needs a genius at the helm or it flounders. Where's Marcia Lucas these days?
- JoeAltmaier 3y agoNot sure SW was ever about anything but style and setting. A constant science fiction Gulliver's Travels with new people, civilizations, institutions cropping up rapid-fire. Any attempt to rein that in would ossify, fossilize the franchise. It's not about some particular famous characters or planets. It's about constantly seeing new stuff.
- TMWNN 3y ago>Marvel works because of the endless nerd wrangling in the comics world imposing narrative discipline and critical standards. Plus the crappy stories don't make it to the big screen. Star Wars just doesn't have that: it's a cathedral and there's no bishop, vs. the much more bazaar and bizarre comic book processes. Good point. For non-comic book readers, Marvel has published dozens of issues of various titles *every single month* since 1961. Those stories (plus selected issues from the late 1930s to 1961) are the gigantic mine of ideas that the MCU draws upon. Not all the stories are good, of course, but there have been six decades for public sentiment to manifest and identify the best/coolest/funniest/most touching moments, characters, and—well—memeable points. The memorable way a villain redeems himself at the end of the third Thor film? That's straight out of the comics. Star Wars had a corpus of its own to draw upon, the Expanded Universe of novels/TV shows/comics/toys/etc. Zahn's Thrawn novel trilogy basically saved the franchise in the early 1990s, after the first set of movies ended with nothing else in sight. I've not read them, but fans have gushed over them ever since and I presume that they could have made a good set of post-RoTJ films. Disney explicitly disavowed the Expanded Universe after acquiring Lucasfilm, but recently published another Thrawn trilogy to bring the super-popular villain into mainstream continuity. But instead of anything like that, we got the sequel trilogy, with the dubious accomplishment of turning the $2 billion box office of the first film into $1 billion for the third.
- frankM80 3y agoThe casting of Phoebe Waller-Bridge in the new Indiana Jones was a terrible mistake. She doesn't have the looks to pull off the role. What a weird choice. Makes the movie unwatchable tbh
- stuckinhell 3y agoI knew the Disney trilogy was bad, when fans started saying the prequel trilogy was like Shakespeare compared to the Disney Star wars. It's crystal clear progressive propaganda over took good decision making. The 'force is female' marketing was incredibly dumb and alienating to my young sons, who would have been the perfect target for Star Wars type stuff. The 'force is for everyone' would have been so much better. Then ruining the legacy of Luke, Han, and Leia was the final touches on destroying the brand. Even Mark Hamill was so surprised by the direction Luke Skywalker took that he had to justify the performance to himself by claiming he played another character named "Jake Skywalker." https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/star-wars-the-last-jedi-mark-hamill-luke-skywalker-203231/ https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/star-wars-the-last-jedi-... The Mandalorian is another example of suddenly pushing progressive politics by switching main characters in the later seasons, where it's clear the audience just wanted a cowboy in space series. (I didn't watch it, but my Husband did)
- karmakurtisaani 3y agoCommenters seem upset that the reason the movies suck is that they are somehow ideological, probably "woke". This puts the cart before the horse. What do you expect to get when the whole context of the article is about how Disney could milk more money using some acquired intellectual property? The endless sequels are meant to make money, not be good movies with creative new ideas - those are risky. Whatever wokeness you find in the movies is just a calculated attempt at mass appeal.
- drdec 3y agoIf that were true they would have reined in Rian Johnson in episode 8. Frankly if that were true they would be in a lot better position. I don't care about the supposedly woke stuff, I'm talking about the direction of the plot. Everything that made the critics love that movie hurt the franchise.
- norwalkbear 3y agoI think Bud Lite proves liberal executives are supremely out of touch.
- tiffanyh 3y agoLoss leader for Disney+ They are purposely taking a hit on box office sales, to drive Disney+ subscriptions. Turning Red, Soul, and Luca were all movies that dropped on Disney+ the same day they hit theaters. How can you gauge the "success" based solely on box office sales, when Disney's strategy is using this content as a loss leader strategy to drive subscriptions to Disney+?
- drdec 3y agoPerhaps because, as the article cites, the streaming platform has lost $9 billion dollars since it launched.
- tiffanyh 3y agoThe economics of forgoing a $1B movie release for a $10/month subscription instead, that math will never add up. Which is why Hollywood is cutting back on writers pay, actors pay, etc ... and hence the guild strikes. There's also GAAP accounting issues as well on timing of match those expenses to revenue.
- kaycebasques 3y agohttps://archive.is/NH534 https://archive.is/NH534
- kaycebasques 3y ago> “To get the Force back, Lucasfilm needs to reconnect with its Joseph Campbell roots—the inner set of mythologies we’re all hardwired to that motivated Lucas to create Star Wars in the first place,” said Schiffer. Oh, lord. I really hope they don't follow this playbook. The hero's journey is SO played out. I honestly think there is a huge market for stories that do NOT revolve around saving the world/galaxy/universe.
- drdec 3y agoPerhaps but would the Star Wars universe be the right setting for them? Probably not.
- kaycebasques 3y agoI think it can be. There still needs to be drama and adventure and action. The story just doesn't need to always revolve around saving the galaxy. I think this is why the Mandalorian has been so successful and interesting. He is a character that is never really trying to save the world. He gets sucked into it every now and then, but then again a lot of his episodes are just cool adventures of a person living an interesting life. There is also the idea about why Disney and these other big companies are buying franchises in the first place. I read somewhere (probably here on HN) that these media companies realized that people like to get invested in a particular story universe. They don't want to have to keep getting used to new universes, they want to see the universe that they like from different angles. So in that regard I think this strategy makes strategic sense as well.
- prepend 3y ago> The hero's journey is SO played out. Certainly after 3000 years it’s finally played out? Nope, I think it will power stories for thousands more.
- m3g4hur7z 3y ago[flagged]
- m3g4hur7z 3y ago[flagged]
- thrill 3y agoThe difference between "evolve" and "mutate" is fitness to function.
- mcphage 3y ago> Now that growth has faltered, with 4 million customers canceling their membership in the three months through March I had read that most of that cancellation was due to Disney+ losing the rights to Cricket matches in India. Was that not the case? I think I only saw it in threads here and Twitter, so I don't know if it is true or not. Edit: Hmm, that seems to be true: https://qz.com/disney-is-losing-subscribers-with-the-loss-of-ipl-1850427540 https://qz.com/disney-is-losing-subscribers-with-the-loss-of... claims that the loss from Cricket is 4.6 million.
- it_citizen 3y agoI am going to lose some karma over that comment: As someone who has not watched star wars before being adult but is pretty fond of fantasy and sci-fi, I am wondering if the simplest explanation for the constant disappointments is that the universe and source material are not that great in the first place. Is it possible that in 2023, a good chunk of the love for star war movies is due to fond childhood/90's memories that are impossible to recapture? I am hard pressed to find people that became passionated about star wars by discovering them late in their life. If I am right, then what to do? People are going to be unhappy if the franchise tries to modernize itself and make drastic changes, but they will also be unhappy if they get more of the same because it won't have the madeleine effect.
- drdec 3y agoThis is absolutely part of it. Your favorite Star Wars movies are the ones you saw as a child.
- pneill 3y agoIt pains me to say this, especially since I saw Star Wars in the theater over 10 times when it first came out, but you have a point. When I was a kid, I saw Star Wars over 10 times in the theater, and I LOVED it. For the time, it was revolutionary science fiction film. But I remember after the first time I saw it with my dad and I excitedly asked him "what did you think?" He said it was over rated. I remember being crushed by that comment, but now.. I dunno. The plot is pretty weak and predictable. But I think that's why a lot of fans are so disappointed by the new Disney star wars material. Rogue One seemed like such an elevation of Star Wars - Star Wars for grown ups. And the hope, at least of me, was that Disney+ would run with that. But after Boba Fett, I just walked. It was atrocious.
- EA-3167 3y agoThis is my feeling as well, but I find that going up against Star Wars fans is a pointless and unrewarding endeavor.
- bipop5000 3y agoI also watched star wars as an adult. I find the source material average.
- kaycebasques 3y agoI'll take the other side of the popular opinion about Disney and Star Wars: I think Disney is doing a fine job with Star Wars. Great? No. Fine? Yes. * The Mandalorian is some of the best Star Wars content ever produced, period. They really need to get Jon Favreau at the helm of all things Star Wars. By the way, if you've watched Friends, look up his face. You'll recognize him as the late 90s software entrepreneur that dated Monica. * They need to step away from the cliche hero's journey stuff (as I mention in another comment on this thread). The Mandalorian is great and refreshing precisely because Mando is not really trying to save the world and it's not following that super boring and predictable narrative arc. The Rey saga sucked because they stuck to the playbook too much. * Visions is pretty cool. Of course it's kind of jarring to see so many different intrepretations of the Star Wars universe, but I respect what they're doing there. So yeah, I could keep going, but you get the gist: they're doing fine. It hasn't crashed into the ground.
- hindsightbias 3y agoThe Force left Lucasfilm with RotJ. It all sucked decades before Kennedy came in. The only decent movie was Rogue One, and she produced that.
- jonhohle 3y agoAmong other issues at Lucasfilm before the acquisition was they just didn’t make much anymore. Star Wars, one of the biggest series ever created, sat from 1984 to 1999 without any features (outside of Ewoks made for TV entries). The universe was left to novelists and game creators. Indiana Jones was similar. Both of these were created in the spirit of serials, but then the series stopped unceremoniously. Other entries like Willow weren’t main stream hits and Lucasfilm just stopped making movies for about 10 years. By the time George Lucas directed again it had been 22 years since he had directed a movie. A lot of wonderful things have come out of Lucasfilm, but it was pretty much abandoned by the 90s. Both the Star Wars and Indy universes are great, but let new creators make new things. I’d much rather see a mediocre original concept than yet another mediocre franchise movie.