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I had an app that was making about $10,000 USD a month. It was taken down by Google because apparently I copied some other developer's iOS app. I asked them to

by 4pkjai 3y ago

I had an app that was making about $10,000 USD a month. It was taken down by Google because apparently I copied some other developer's iOS app. I asked them to tell me the name of the iOS app they believed I copied. They named the iOS version of my Android app. They basically accused me of copying myself because the Android version was under my company's name while the iOS version was under my name. Google unbanned the app, but sales dropped to $1000 a month. After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only.

JodieBenitez 3y ago
> After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only. Way to go ! Not everything can be a web app right now, but it's getting closer every year.
- busymom0 3y ago
  With his finally adding support for web push notifications, I think we are pretty much there already. What else is missing that’s needed for most apps?
  - 4pkjai 3y ago
    I think browser push notifications are considered a bit of a failed standard. Lots of browser's don't support them e.g. iOS browsers.
    - manmal 3y ago
      I haven’t tried iOS PWA push notifications yet, but I was under the impression that they should work similarly to the native ones. I agree that the standard is wonky, but if you develop a PWA with specific iOS polish, it might work well.
    - plonk 3y ago
      Is there a writeup about how they work? Is there a message broker server that the browser stays connected to?
  - JodieBenitez 3y ago
    Last time I tried, working with local files and folders was slow, not well supported and awkward. But I may lag.
  - mcsniff 3y ago
    WebKit published a list of things they don't/won't add support for, so you can count them out on iOS. https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/ https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/ I have an native app for both platforms which uses some of these because I can't do it with a webapp, I'd love for everything to be done in the browser. Web Bluetooth Web MIDI API Magnetometer AP Web NFC API Device Memory API Network Information API Battery Status API Web Bluetooth Scanning Ambient Light Sensor HDCP Policy Check extension for EME Proximity Sensor WebHID Serial API Web USB Geolocation Sensor (background geolocation) User Idle Detection
mrtksn 3y ago
So are the web apps having better returns?
- taneq 3y ago
  Better expected returns, from the sounds of it, since they’re not at risk of being arbitrarily sin-binned without recourse.
  - lionkor 3y ago
    You're absolutely at risk of this. If you're added to the big bad google blocklist that all major browsers use, which of course is automated, anyone visiting your website will get a big red screen saying "this is a scam please run away". This happened to my own gitlab instance, which sees around 5 unique visitors a year, and it has happened to popular websites. The only recourse is to report the issue to google, who, if they feel so kind, will unblock your domain again. Oh, maybe I didn't mention - this block applies to the entire domain. I had the gitlab on git.example.com, and so *.example.com and example.com were all blocked entirely, on all browsers, for everyone in the world. Yes, you can click on a button, and then a tiny link that says "im ok with getting shafted by this scam site" or some such shit.
    - 4pkjai 3y ago
      Very true, the majority of my new users find my web app through Google search. If Google decided to remove me from their search results I would lose a large amount of revenue.
    - manmal 3y ago
      Out of curiosity, does Google also cross-link with the dev‘s Google account? Domain A gets punished, then all other Domains of the dev get punished too? (eg when connected via ads or search console)
      - lionkor 3y ago
        No idea, but fairly easy to test - seems to me like it flags self hosted stuff like gitlab as it looks like a phishing site is targeting gitlab users. Not sure what triggers it, but that's the only needed preconditions i know of
datadeft 3y ago
This is exactly the reason I would have never considered to build any apps. I have had couple of ideas but the risk is to big that a faceless corporation is going cancel your business without any reason and visibility.
- meghan_rain 3y ago
  Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's an existential risk.
  - kordlessagain 3y ago
    An existential risk is typically considered any risk that has the potential to eliminate all of humanity or, at the very least, kill large swaths of the global population. Being controlled by software restricts choice, while being wiped out by software eliminates choice altogether.
    - bdavbdav 3y ago
      I suspect you may be being a little too literal here. It is an existential risk to the software development house.
      - kordlessagain 3y ago
        I agree and nothing I wrote conflicts with that assertion. The point is that it depends on the individual's perspective and the complexity of the issue at hand. Restricting choice is often an advantage because it saves us time in exchange for the risk of being (company, individual or humanity) wiped out by an exception to the rule.
    - NikolaNovak 3y ago
      Hmm typically I've heard the phrase existential risk alongside a qualifying / local scope phrase. So something may be an existential risk to this company or this endeavour. Only a small fraction of usage of existential risk are globally scoped to humanity.
rpastuszak 3y ago
> After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only. What services do you use to monetise them? Coming from a very similar background, I have more than a decade of mobile experience (consultant -> CTO), but almost all of my personal projects are web apps. I just can't be bothered dealing with how much control app stores want over my work, plus the amount of bureaucratic bullshit involved. Plus, the modern web stack is amazing in terms of short iteration cycles (<30s to push and deploy a new project, excellent dev experience with TS).
dakial1 3y ago
The didn’t send a warning or anything to give you the opportunity to explain the misunderstanding? Doesn’t that give you a good argument to sue them?
- nikanj 3y ago
  Only if you have more money for lawyers than Google
  - BeefySwain 3y ago
    And are wanting to have all your Google accounts banned for life.
- breakingrules 3y ago
  [dead]
causi 3y ago
I wonder how much money it unjustly costs other people for every dollar Google saves on support personnel costs.
mynonameaccount 3y ago
sounds like a lawsuit?
mcsniff 3y ago
Thanks for the fear-by-proxy ;) I have an Android app published under a company name, while iOS is under my personal name due to the hassle of getting it published under a company.
horeszko 3y ago
>>"After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only." I agree with this, I think for reasons of independence that web browsers should be the platform for mobile as much as possible, not os specific apps. Perhaps one day foss non-corporate smart phone operating systems will become more accessible to non-technical users, but until then web browsers are the best bet to prevent centralization/control by corporations on software distribution

by 4pkjai 3y ago

JodieBenitez 3y ago

> After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only. Way to go ! Not everything can be a web app right now, but it's getting closer every year.

busymom0 3y ago
With his finally adding support for web push notifications, I think we are pretty much there already. What else is missing that’s needed for most apps?
- 4pkjai 3y ago
  I think browser push notifications are considered a bit of a failed standard. Lots of browser's don't support them e.g. iOS browsers.
  - manmal 3y ago
    I haven’t tried iOS PWA push notifications yet, but I was under the impression that they should work similarly to the native ones. I agree that the standard is wonky, but if you develop a PWA with specific iOS polish, it might work well.
  - plonk 3y ago
    Is there a writeup about how they work? Is there a message broker server that the browser stays connected to?
- JodieBenitez 3y ago
  Last time I tried, working with local files and folders was slow, not well supported and awkward. But I may lag.
- mcsniff 3y ago
  WebKit published a list of things they don't/won't add support for, so you can count them out on iOS. https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/ https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/ I have an native app for both platforms which uses some of these because I can't do it with a webapp, I'd love for everything to be done in the browser. Web Bluetooth Web MIDI API Magnetometer AP Web NFC API Device Memory API Network Information API Battery Status API Web Bluetooth Scanning Ambient Light Sensor HDCP Policy Check extension for EME Proximity Sensor WebHID Serial API Web USB Geolocation Sensor (background geolocation) User Idle Detection

mrtksn 3y ago

So are the web apps having better returns?

taneq 3y ago
Better expected returns, from the sounds of it, since they’re not at risk of being arbitrarily sin-binned without recourse.
- lionkor 3y ago
  You're absolutely at risk of this. If you're added to the big bad google blocklist that all major browsers use, which of course is automated, anyone visiting your website will get a big red screen saying "this is a scam please run away". This happened to my own gitlab instance, which sees around 5 unique visitors a year, and it has happened to popular websites. The only recourse is to report the issue to google, who, if they feel so kind, will unblock your domain again. Oh, maybe I didn't mention - this block applies to the entire domain. I had the gitlab on git.example.com, and so *.example.com and example.com were all blocked entirely, on all browsers, for everyone in the world. Yes, you can click on a button, and then a tiny link that says "im ok with getting shafted by this scam site" or some such shit.
  - 4pkjai 3y ago
    Very true, the majority of my new users find my web app through Google search. If Google decided to remove me from their search results I would lose a large amount of revenue.
  - manmal 3y ago
    Out of curiosity, does Google also cross-link with the dev‘s Google account? Domain A gets punished, then all other Domains of the dev get punished too? (eg when connected via ads or search console)
    - lionkor 3y ago
      No idea, but fairly easy to test - seems to me like it flags self hosted stuff like gitlab as it looks like a phishing site is targeting gitlab users. Not sure what triggers it, but that's the only needed preconditions i know of

datadeft 3y ago

This is exactly the reason I would have never considered to build any apps. I have had couple of ideas but the risk is to big that a faceless corporation is going cancel your business without any reason and visibility.

meghan_rain 3y ago
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's an existential risk.
- kordlessagain 3y ago
  An existential risk is typically considered any risk that has the potential to eliminate all of humanity or, at the very least, kill large swaths of the global population. Being controlled by software restricts choice, while being wiped out by software eliminates choice altogether.
  - bdavbdav 3y ago
    I suspect you may be being a little too literal here. It is an existential risk to the software development house.
    - kordlessagain 3y ago
      I agree and nothing I wrote conflicts with that assertion. The point is that it depends on the individual's perspective and the complexity of the issue at hand. Restricting choice is often an advantage because it saves us time in exchange for the risk of being (company, individual or humanity) wiped out by an exception to the rule.
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    Hmm typically I've heard the phrase existential risk alongside a qualifying / local scope phrase. So something may be an existential risk to this company or this endeavour. Only a small fraction of usage of existential risk are globally scoped to humanity.

rpastuszak 3y ago

> After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only. What services do you use to monetise them? Coming from a very similar background, I have more than a decade of mobile experience (consultant -> CTO), but almost all of my personal projects are web apps. I just can't be bothered dealing with how much control app stores want over my work, plus the amount of bureaucratic bullshit involved. Plus, the modern web stack is amazing in terms of short iteration cycles (<30s to push and deploy a new project, excellent dev experience with TS).

dakial1 3y ago

The didn’t send a warning or anything to give you the opportunity to explain the misunderstanding? Doesn’t that give you a good argument to sue them?

nikanj 3y ago
Only if you have more money for lawyers than Google
- BeefySwain 3y ago
  And are wanting to have all your Google accounts banned for life.
breakingrules 3y ago
[dead]

causi 3y ago

I wonder how much money it unjustly costs other people for every dollar Google saves on support personnel costs.

mynonameaccount 3y ago

sounds like a lawsuit?

mcsniff 3y ago

Thanks for the fear-by-proxy ;) I have an Android app published under a company name, while iOS is under my personal name due to the hassle of getting it published under a company.

horeszko 3y ago

>>"After that ordeal I decided to build web apps only." I agree with this, I think for reasons of independence that web browsers should be the platform for mobile as much as possible, not os specific apps. Perhaps one day foss non-corporate smart phone operating systems will become more accessible to non-technical users, but until then web browsers are the best bet to prevent centralization/control by corporations on software distribution