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HN might as well just run the headline that Reddit is shutting down permanently. All the major subs are either temporarily or permanently shutting down in prote
by DiabloD3 3y ago
HN might as well just run the headline that Reddit is shutting down permanently. All the major subs are either temporarily or permanently shutting down in protest.
Do we have a federated Mastodon-esque system to replace Reddit yet? Its the only way to ensure the community survives at this point; Reddit leadership has already proven they only wish to harm both shareholders and the community at large under the guise of "increasing shareholder value" and shove their fiduciary duty under the bus.
- love2read 3y agoIs mastodon really even taking the spot of twitter?
- jonathankoren 3y agoYes. Twitter is dead.
- willcipriano 3y ago> Posted: 6:00 PM Jun 6, 2023 > 107.7M Views You sure about that? https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1666203439146172419 https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1666203439146172419
- afavour 3y agoI agree that Twitter is far from dead but you’re choosing a bad example. > The main Twitter video view metric is triggered when a user watches a video for at least 2 seconds and sees at least 50% of the video player in-view. So anyone that had the (auto playing) video in view for two seconds as they scrolled through their feed. Multiplied by the number of times it’s in their feed. It’s a pretty meaningless number.
- willcipriano 3y agoHow about: > 845.9K Likes > 237.6K Retweets In a day and a half for a ten minute video of a guy in his basement talking. It isn't even a video platform.
- sumeno 3y agoGiven how easy it is to have bot farms promote tweets I don't think this is a valid metric to use
- afavour 3y agoBut what is the argument here? 237k retweets is a lot, sure. This tweet from 2020 has 883k retweets and is just four photos: https://twitter.com/BTS_twt/status/1296701109340237824 https://twitter.com/BTS_twt/status/1296701109340237824 So does 237k retweets in 2023 mean the network is as vital as it was in 2020? I have no idea what basis this argument is being made on.
- nostromo 3y agoIf you think that’s bad, wait until you hear how they measure broadcast and cable television viewership.
- afavour 3y agoWhat does that have to do with Twitter’s popularity, though?
- tenpies 3y ago[flagged]
- anlaw 3y agoGenius CEOs thought Fed money printer and covid were forever too. You’re not a genius CEO. If the experts get it wrong all the time (and spend a ton of effort promoting what they “do right” to shape perception) why believe you saying 2 successful vids is a lasting trend? Social media has exposed there is a depressing number of easily titillated by big numbers rubes in the world. Lindy effect, Goodharts Law; the last 60-70 years are an outdated af zeitgeist to perpetuate.
- jonathankoren 3y agoPutting aside the dubious methodology behind that metric, I’d like to point out that’s precisely the wrong metric to be paying attention to. You need to look at the traffic and retention numbers of the power users, and better yet the critical users in the social graph. Power user traffic has declined 25% since Elon. The reason why this number is more important than overall user growth, is because social networks don’t decline, they chug along, until the collapse all at once, like a bridge with a key support knocked out. By studying the collapse look of Friendster, MySpace, Snap (which technically still exists), this predictor of collapse has been identified. So yeah Twitter is dead. The rest of the network just doesn’t know it yet. See: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/twitters-top-users-are-posting-less-since-musk-acquisition-pew-shows.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/twitters-top-users-are-posti... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29196654/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29196654/ https://arxiv.org/abs/1302.6109 https://arxiv.org/abs/1302.6109
- mjr00 3y agoTwitter exists because of celebrities, politicians, journalists, musicians, etc. And those users have largely not migrated to Mastodon. Maybe you could argue they're promoting more on Tiktok now, but that's a bit of a different platform. BLACKPINK and Taylor Swift both tweeted today. So did Barack Obama, and Stephen Curry. And CNN, ABC News, CBS News, and Fox News are all constantly updating their Twitter feeds. Meanwhile the big Mastodon draw is... Kathy Griffin? And her last Mastodon toot was... March 31. Guess she got bored of only getting 100 likes per post.
- krapp 3y agoThe big Mastodon draw is getting away from Twitter and its bullshit. People who are only interested in virality and clicks and drawing as large an audience as possible are welcome to stay away.
- jonathankoren 3y agoYou seem to be confused. It doesn’t matter if Mastodon is going to replace Twitter. What matters is that Twitter is dead. Then I laid out why the collapse has already started. This shouldn’t be controversial. Twitter has been losing users for years now. Celebrities aren’t trendsetters. They’re laggards. To use the hockey metaphor, they always skate to the puck, not where it is going. Case in point: Every band was on MySpace until well after the collapse began.
- breput 3y agoDo you really trust those numbers? Twitter has all the inventive in the world to artificially inflate view counts and have done similar, sketchy things recently[0]. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/report-musk-had-twitter-engineers-boost-his-tweets-after-biden-got-more-views/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/report-musk-had-...
- CarlsonTucker 3y agoPoor Tuck is doing a Twitch channel now?!
- sen 3y agoNot for everybody but it is for a lot of people. Pretty much everyone I followed in my hobbies have switched over and I don’t go back to twitter anymore, and have more content than I can keep up on in Mastadon. I’ve been perfectly happy with it.
- Pufferbo 3y agoThis is how I feel as well. People always say that Mastodon will never replace Twitter because it’s either a) too hard to sign up for, b) no enough people on using it. However, since it’s federated, I feel the easier to find people and posts that are more akin to my interests on there. I just joined a midsized software dev focused instance and followed a few tags for my hobbies and my experience is great. It almost feels like Reddit in that way.
- sureglymop 3y agoOut of curiosity, what instance? Sounds nice.
- Pufferbo 3y agoFosstodon: https://fosstodon.org/about https://fosstodon.org/about They mainly focus around open source software. Admins are great, and the server is fast and reliable.
- idlewords 3y agoIt seems to have drained a lot of the more annoying people off Twitter, making it more fun.
- sureglymop 3y agoWhy do you think it is supposed to? I've been using mastodon for almost a decade and it's been a great experience from the start but I would say pretty different than twitter. Personally I hope Twitter refugees won't ruin the magic of it. It being a bit more niche is great, just like with hacker news too.
- sfuller808 3y ago[dead]
- bmarquez 3y agoFrom what I've seen, only for niche programming or highly technical circles. My "normie" friends don't even want to try something polished like Signal. Mastodon would have to be heavily simplified, polished, and maybe sponsor some exclusive influencers to actually take the spot of Twitter.
- jonathankoren 3y agohttps://join-lemmy.org https://join-lemmy.org
- km3r 3y ago[flagged]
- snapcaster 3y agoWhat do you mean? I know nothing about lemmy but from the posted link it doesn't appear communist
- jonathankoren 3y agoHe’s a troll
- shitlord 3y agoOne of the developers actually marketed Lemmy as "communist-developed": https://www.reddit.com/r/socialistprogrammers/comments/mzqv37/lemmy_release_v0110_a_communistdeveloped/ https://www.reddit.com/r/socialistprogrammers/comments/mzqv3... There's nothing wrong with that, per se. The larger issue preventing widespread adoption is that the authors really don't want you to modify/customize the software in certain ways. The slur filter was hard coded and unmodifiable for a long time. There was a ton of drama around that, all because the developers don't like right wingers. https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/hvz2l9/a_lemmy_dev_we_are_never_going_to_remove_the_slur/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/hvz2l9/... Lemmy is a good alternative for certain subreddits who want their own website. It's not a replacement for the entire reddit platform though, and I don't think any of the reddit alternatives really come close in that regard.
- philippejara 3y agoits not the only way to ensure a community survives, forums have existed before reddit and will exist later. You even have examples of communities that left, created their own version of reddit and seem to be doing fine. > Reddit leadership has already proven they only wish to harm both shareholders and the community at large under the guise of "increasing shareholder value" and shove their fiduciary duty under the bus. reddit isn't a public company, so unless the current owners who are the ones putting all this in motion are looking into self-flagellation they haven't proven a thing. The reality is that reddit is huge, and most users couldn't care less about all this drama.
- bmitc 3y ago> The reality is that reddit is huge, and most users couldn't care less about all this drama. That seems like a strong statement. Currently on /r/all, top posts 1, 3, 5, 6, and 14 are all regarding this. Some pretty major subreddits are planning on joining in on the protests.
- angry_moose 3y agoThey're about to IPO though, which is what has led to all of this drama, so it's a fair criticism.
- philippejara 3y agoit's a fair criticism when you limit it to the users being affected, when you start talking about the owners(the current shareholders!) willingly eschewing fiduciary duty and damaging shareholders as if the owners were trying to hurt themselves it loses all meaning.
- idlewords 3y agoThis could be as consequential as the time all Reddit shut down to protest net neutrality.
- awesome_dude 3y ago>Do we have a federated Mastodon-esque system to replace Reddit yet? Yes - it's all the sites that people link to on reddit :-P For the record, there's something happening to all the big Social Media sites over the last few years IRC/Freenode - dead, replaced by Libera, but not nearly as vibrant as its heyday Twitter - dying, replaced by Mastodon, Bluesky, and Instagram, none of them really capture the magic that was twitter, Bluesky feels a lot like Google+, Mastodon is regularly policed by people demanding that people not act like it's twitter.. and Instagram is for kids... Facebook - seems to be dying, they've blown things with their advertising model, and the automagic content moderation is/was also a fail (it either judges everyone far too harshly, or not at all), the users are heading to FB's other sites (Instagram) or Tik Tok Reddit - dying (but is this temporary?), being replaced by Lobsters, Hacker News, maybe more Tik Tok - facing serious regulatory challenges in Europe and the US. It's inevitable that things will die/change, I do find it really interesting that the big ones from the last decade are all suddenly finding themselves on the outer. One of the exceptions is YouTube, which faced serious competition from the likes of Tik Tok, but still appears to be generating content/high readership, and seems largely immune to the absolute garbage that's been uploaded over the past few years (conspiracy nuts, politics, etc)
- Solvency 3y agoWhy does everyone forget Discourse? It's quietly enabling all of the best topic/product/niche-specific commmunities out there. https://discourse.mcneel.com https://discourse.mcneel.com as an example is a thriving treasure trove for CAD/Nurbs/product modelers/architects/etc.
- awesome_dude 3y agoHa! If people are forgetting it, is it really a competitor? Truth is, for me, I just don't use it - it's as bad as Slack IMO, but I'm sure that a lot of people are finding it worthwhile
- Solvency 3y agoHow is it bad? It's a message board by topic, sorted by last activity, and supports all kinds of media / preformatted text / replies / notifications / etc. If you don't like the community or subject matter, that makes sense. But what else are you looking for?
- ljm 3y ago> Do we have a federated Mastodon-esque system to replace Reddit yet? Back in the day, that was the World Wide Web. Federated gardens are a modern invention.
- floxy 3y agoWhippersnappers and their dubya-dubya-dubya's. Reddit is nothing but a glorified Usenet!
- doublerabbit 3y agoAnd the internet is nothing more then a digital version of a book ;)
- LordShredda 3y agoI wish books didnt insult me for liking other books
- nine_k 3y agoThree things. (1) User identity. (2) Moderation. (3) Storage and bandwidth. If you don't mind using different identities across subreddits, or are fine using some OIDC provider, you can replace a subreddit with something like a phpbb installation, a classical forum. Its moderation tools, while somehow different, should be adequate to thwart spam and whip rule-breakers into shape. Running somethig picture-heavy, even 1/10 of r/pic, would cost considerable money though.
- mrtksn 3y ago>All the major subs are either temporarily or permanently shutting down in protest. Is this true though? Are the subs which normal people visit are shutting down too?
- Jaxkr 3y agoYes, many default subs like /r/videos for example are participating in the blackout.
- EscapeFromNY 3y agohttps://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplet... There's the list so far. Definitely some heavy hitters in there. Note that if you want to see the full list you'll have to click through to the second thread, since they hit the character limit :)
- pimlottc 3y agoBe aware that there’s are definitely NSFW subs in that list
- DeepPhilosopher 3y ago"Do we have a federated Mastodon-esque system to replace Reddit yet?" Yes. It's called Lemmy. https://join-lemmy.org https://join-lemmy.org Just found out about it today.
- JauntTrooper 3y agoIs there no way to browse without signing in?
- ripecoconut 3y agoI clicked join a server and it just let me browse no problem.
- ticoombs 3y agoJoin Lemmy is the introduction website to find one of the many instances. You should be able to view instances without joining. Checkout my instance: https://reddthat.com https://reddthat.com Ps. I've disabled email verification for a short period to allow the influx to happen.
- vanous 3y agoIsn't that an impersonation risk? Anyone can register under my email?
- timothyduong 3y agoAh having issues signing into LemmyWorld. Would like to start building content but the sign-in / registration is a little slow...
- ticoombs 3y agoThe UI is getting there. If the username is not long enough it doesn't show anything for example. Feel free to come join reddthat.com if lemmyWorld doesn't work for you
- 3y ago
- schlauerfox 3y agoI plan to avoid the platform as I can, but I worry the admin response will be to revoke the communities from their current moderators and install more cooperative scabs, which will have a profound effect on these communities. I'm not sure what the future holds, but reddit can't walk it back now, so I think it will end badly.
- flangola7 3y agoPoppycock! Reddit can walk it back at any time. This is a conscious choice they are making.
- tsunamifury 3y agoHN — Mastedon is like “fetch”: it’s not going to happen. Does no one on this site understand there are an infinite number of easier ways to be social than a engineers dream of a self serve social network?
- tester457 3y agoI dislike Mastodon too, but what changes do you think Mastodon and Lemmy need to be a viable option?
- tsunamifury 3y agoTwitters real issue is that it’s dated. Have you seen modern social networks? They are highly visual and much more stimulating for better or worse. Copying Twitter might as well be like copying a 1920s radio for how outdated it is. Complete paradigm shift since then with messaging and video.
- the_third_wave 3y agoNot all change is good, progress for progress' sake is an example of this. The more "visual and much more stimulating" nature of those "modern social networks" stands to "dated" mostly text-based communications as "high sugar deep fried processed" food stands towards "traditional" food made with fresh ingredients. Sure, the kids will gorge themselves on it but they'll end up as obese adults suffering from low insulin sensitivity a.k.a. diabetes type 2. Twitter itself already resembles a Twinkie compared to the home-cooked lunch served by NNTP so it is not as if copying the Twitter model is something to aim for.
- tsunamifury 3y agoHave you tried getting user growth with this lecture?
- the_third_wave 3y ago
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago> All the major subs are either temporarily or permanently shutting down in protest. But I'd just add there is a pretty major difference between "temporarily" and "permanently". Major kudos to r/ProgrammerHumor and other subs that are doing it right - saying they will be shutting down indefinitely unless Reddit changes their stance. Just saying you're only going to shut down for a couple days is essentially theater - Reddit can certainly wait out some popular subs being down for a few days. More generally, that's really the only way protests have a way of achieving their goals, by saying you'll engage in some behavior (or boycott) until your demands are met, or at least met with some change. Anything that's time limited is pretty much doomed to fail. For example, I'm not sure what the organizers of the recent Amazon "walkout" hoped to accomplish. That wasn't a walkout, it was lunch.
- hn_thrwn 3y ago[flagged]
- test098 3y agoreddit the company doesn't produce any content. they rely on people creating communities, cultivating them, and actively moderating them (for free!). i'd say that gives those creators more of a claim to ownership than the platform hosting that content. reddit doesn't exist without them - what value does the site have if they kick out everyone who "occupies" reddit.com? would you participate in an online forum only populated with chatbots?
- hn_thrwn 3y ago[flagged]
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago> This will be educational to them when they are all banned and replaced with chatbots. If they are replaced with chatbots, then I'm sure that the result will be educational to somebody. Not necessarily with the conclusion you imply, though.
- tsuujin 3y agoAs others have said, lemmy is a viable alternative. Just beware that their flagship instance is pretty terrible in terms of political content. Maybe check out beehaw.org
- monksy 3y agoLemmy is the federated version. https://lemmy.ml/ https://lemmy.ml/
- MortimerDukePhD 3y ago> Do we have a federated Mastodon-esque system to replace Reddit yet? Maybe they can go to whatever platform the banned subreddits reformed on. Unfortunately many of the subreddit communities that are now being screwed over in the same fashion by Reddit were cheering on that behavior when others were targeted.
- jakecopp 3y ago> Do we have a federated Mastodon-esque system to replace Reddit yet? Yes we do! It's called Lemmy - it's built on ActivityPub, is Mastodon compatible, and people actually use it! https://lemmy.ml/post/1147770 https://lemmy.ml/post/1147770 Knowing HN users, I don't know why Lemmy hasn't been all over the front page. It works brilliantly.
- zinklog 3y agoBoth Lemmy and Kbin are part of the fediverse and are seeing explosive growth for the last few days. Once the initial barrier of confusion about how federation works is gone, they are actually pretty promising and I can see a lot of people migrating for good there.