6 ms·

Good. The CCS connector is hideous, sags under its own weight, and most CCS chargers just fail to start charging. Usually the car is expecting current when it i

by dheera 3y ago

Good. The CCS connector is hideous, sags under its own weight, and most CCS chargers just fail to start charging. Usually the car is expecting current when it is plugged in, and by the time you open up the app and figure out how to pay, the car has given up on the charger and won't charge when the charger is ready. Hopefully they can work it out so that all cars can just plug in and everything is negotiated for you without any apps.

CameronNemo 3y ago
Seriously preposterous that you need an app to charge. Nobody uses an app to charge at a gas station! Just tap your card and you're good. Why do they need my email so bad?
- fnimick 3y ago
  Amusing that you're saying this when Tesla requires an app to set up your car for charging in the first place. Sure, you don't need an app at the point of sale, but I'd argue tying your car permanently to your identity is even worse. I'm also not sure where people have needed an app to charge. In my experience at both EVGo and Electrify America stations, the credit card readers work just fine. I've never made an account for either of them. ChargePoint is the exception, but their system is extra stupid (you need to use the app, then NFC your phone)
  - dheera 3y ago
    For me it's less about identity and more about just the damn charger working. I've never had an official Tesla charger fail to charge when plugged in. Their maintenance is top notch. The apps hardly work, and it doesn't help that I have to fiddle with a map and a list to find the charger I'm standing in front of by some name like "Agustin" or "Bashir", instead of just scanning a QR code or NFC tapping the physical plug which would have been a much better experience. ChargePoint works well; EVGo almost never works. EA usually works after unplugging and plugging and trying about 3-4 times.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    You car is tied to your identity with your VIN and registration. These records are available to anyone willing to pay a nominal fee. If you rent, auto rental company has your drivers license on file. (caveat being if you register your car in Montana using an anonymous LLC with an agent)
  - CameronNemo 3y ago
    They seriously don't let you set up an account on their website? Ugh. I never said Tesla was better, though. I've mostly used chargepoint (and Volta, heh). I used evgo quite some time ago and thought they pushed you to use the app. My sister recently used an evgo for a rental car and she said she had to install an app.
    - flounder3 3y ago
      Chargepoint requires you to maintain an account balance, and requires auto-refills. You can't just bill a CC for the entirety of a session through the app/site. Sometimes you can initiate a non-linked session with an EMV tap from a physical card, but that doesn't always work.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > Amusing that you're saying this when Tesla requires an app to set up your car for charging in the first place. Sounds terrible. I shouldn't need an app to drive my car.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- thmsths 3y ago
  Nobody uses an app at the gas station because that process was invented long before the smartphone craze and people have gotten used to it. I am pretty sure that if ICE cars were only coming to market now, the gas stations would ask you to use an app to fill up.
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    The same process which works for automated gas stations since 1990s works for chargers too. There is nothing new on that. And it is already being aggressively regulated into the infrastructure https://www.europapress.es/comunicados/internacional-00907/noticia-comunicado-card-payment-needs-to-be-possible-at-charging-stations-throughout-europe-20211130133227.html https://www.europapress.es/comunicados/internacional-00907/n...
- dheera 3y ago
  Not to mention about half the chargers in my area (in California, of all places) don't take Visa cards, but they take some other credit card networks. Unfortunately all of my cards are Visa. So the app is the only option. But a lot of the time the app fails to start the charging. Perhaps the chargers have connectivity issues.
- wmf 3y ago
  Many chargers don't require an app.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    It depends. They might have a screen and can be used directly, but those screens are often broken, so app will still give you a better experience, at least at EA.
- bdcravens 3y ago
  I've only used Electrify America chargers, but you can charge using just a credit/debit card. When I had my gas car, I often used an app at gas stations, primarily to avoid card skimmers. (Tap to pay isn't ubiquitous at the pump)
- sorenjan 3y ago
  Hopefully this won't be needed soon and all cars and chargers will support Plug & Charge (ISO 15118)[0] after this annoying transition period. > The user-convenient and secure Plug & Charge feature that envisioned with ISO 15118 enables an electric vehicle to automatically identify and authorize itself to a compatible charging station on behalf of the driver, to receive energy for recharging its battery. The only action required by the driver is to plug the charging cable into the EV and/or charging station, because the car and the charger identify themselves to each other by exchanging certificates which were provided beforehand via a certificate pool to facilitate payment. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118
  - castratikron 3y ago
    Just as soon as the PKI gets sorted out...
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  According to current statistics most gas refills are done with some sort of rewards card in tandem (Kroger Rewards, Meijer Rewards, etc). To some perspectives, those are also "apps" of a sort that feed the station owners email addresses and other tracking things.
- jdeibele 3y ago
  A couple of benefits to the apps: one is that you get exact information on the charging session. The bigger benefit is that some charging stations will stop charging once your battery is "full", wait a bit, then start charging an idle rate. The app can notify you about this or you can be texted or both since the station knows who you are. All EVs have a charging curve and typically the last 80% or 90% to full goes much more slowly than starting from 0% or 20%. In one case, ChargePoint decided that my Bolt EUV was charging too slowly and started charging me the idle rate without notifying me. Since the idle rate was $.25/minute, I ended up getting charged $1.50 or something like that. I didn't think the idle rate was unfair but I was literally waiting in a coffee shop for the car to get as charged as much as possible.
matmatmatmat 3y ago
I don't get the hate for the CCS connector? I use it multiple times a week, it works fine. Now and then I come across a charger that refuses to start, OK, the connector is worn. I suppose someone will come along and fix it. I have one in my garage; it does not sag under its own weight.
- fnimick 3y ago
  > I have one in my garage; it does not sag under its own weight. I agree with you that the CCS connector is perfectly inoffensive, but you're probably thinking of J1772, unless you have a DC fast charging station at home!
  - matmatmatmat 3y ago
    Ah, you would be right, it appears I have a J1772 at home. I did not know that the CCS is a superset of the J1772 connector.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dheera 3y ago
  > Now and then I come across a charger that refuses to start, OK, the connector is worn. Except this is about 50%+ of connectors in my area. Doesn't seem to happen to the Tesla connectors.
pdabbadabba 3y ago
I have no love for the CCS connector, but I've been exclusively driving a BEV with a CCS connector for more than a year and many of your complaints are completely foreign to me. > most CCS chargers just fail to start charging There's one charger in my neighborhood that is sometimes fiddly, but the vast majority of my charging experiences have been problem free. > Usually the car is expecting current when it is plugged in, and by the time you open up the app and figure out how to pay, the car has given up on the charger and won't charge when the charger is ready. I've never had anything like this experience. What charging network are you using? Electrify America chargers have credit card readers and don't require an app. EVGo chargers allow you to either use an app or tap an EVGo card. A bit annoying, I concede, but I have never had the timeout issue you describe. I'm also not sure what this complaint has to do with CCS. [Edit: Reading other comments, maybe EVGo chargers have CC readers too? Maybe I've just never noticed it because I have the EVGo payment card.] > The CCS connector is hideous No denying this one! >The CCS connector...sags under its own weight Not mine!
- dheera 3y ago
  > What charging network are you using? Mostly EVGo. At my nearest EVGo station all 3 chargers don't work. 1 has its software eternally crashed, the other never starts charging and only accepts MasterCard (no Visa), and the app fails to start charging. The 3rd has a physically broken connector. There is no "call for help" button like elevators have, so I just go to a Tesla Supercharger instead.
- bottlepalm 3y ago
  And if CCS worked as well for everyone as it does for you then they wouldn't be ditching it for NACS, but it doesn't so they are.
  - pdabbadabba 3y ago
    I guess my real point is that most of these issues primarily seem to be caused by the design of the charger and/or car, not the connector. For example, does the fact that some charging networks require you to use an app to pay really have anything to do with the connector? The fact that some cars apparently implement the charging protocol in a way that results in them timing out while the user is trying to activate the charger? That some charging stations just don't work? I'd bet that we'll start hearing all sorts of similar complaints about the NACS connector once people start using them on cars from a wider array of manufacturers with NACS-equipped EA/EVGo/ChargePoint (or similar) charging stations. To be clear, I'm open to the possibility that NACS might be better. But I don't think it will be a panacea for peoples' EV charging issues. The CCS connector has become a scapegoat for a lot of the quality issues with non-Tesla charging networks.

by dheera 3y ago

CameronNemo 3y ago

Seriously preposterous that you need an app to charge. Nobody uses an app to charge at a gas station! Just tap your card and you're good. Why do they need my email so bad?

fnimick 3y ago
Amusing that you're saying this when Tesla requires an app to set up your car for charging in the first place. Sure, you don't need an app at the point of sale, but I'd argue tying your car permanently to your identity is even worse. I'm also not sure where people have needed an app to charge. In my experience at both EVGo and Electrify America stations, the credit card readers work just fine. I've never made an account for either of them. ChargePoint is the exception, but their system is extra stupid (you need to use the app, then NFC your phone)
- dheera 3y ago
  For me it's less about identity and more about just the damn charger working. I've never had an official Tesla charger fail to charge when plugged in. Their maintenance is top notch. The apps hardly work, and it doesn't help that I have to fiddle with a map and a list to find the charger I'm standing in front of by some name like "Agustin" or "Bashir", instead of just scanning a QR code or NFC tapping the physical plug which would have been a much better experience. ChargePoint works well; EVGo almost never works. EA usually works after unplugging and plugging and trying about 3-4 times.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  You car is tied to your identity with your VIN and registration. These records are available to anyone willing to pay a nominal fee. If you rent, auto rental company has your drivers license on file. (caveat being if you register your car in Montana using an anonymous LLC with an agent)
- CameronNemo 3y ago
  They seriously don't let you set up an account on their website? Ugh. I never said Tesla was better, though. I've mostly used chargepoint (and Volta, heh). I used evgo quite some time ago and thought they pushed you to use the app. My sister recently used an evgo for a rental car and she said she had to install an app.
  - flounder3 3y ago
    Chargepoint requires you to maintain an account balance, and requires auto-refills. You can't just bill a CC for the entirety of a session through the app/site. Sometimes you can initiate a non-linked session with an EMV tap from a physical card, but that doesn't always work.
- vel0city 3y ago
  > Amusing that you're saying this when Tesla requires an app to set up your car for charging in the first place. Sounds terrible. I shouldn't need an app to drive my car.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
thmsths 3y ago
Nobody uses an app at the gas station because that process was invented long before the smartphone craze and people have gotten used to it. I am pretty sure that if ICE cars were only coming to market now, the gas stations would ask you to use an app to fill up.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  The same process which works for automated gas stations since 1990s works for chargers too. There is nothing new on that. And it is already being aggressively regulated into the infrastructure https://www.europapress.es/comunicados/internacional-00907/noticia-comunicado-card-payment-needs-to-be-possible-at-charging-stations-throughout-europe-20211130133227.html https://www.europapress.es/comunicados/internacional-00907/n...
dheera 3y ago
Not to mention about half the chargers in my area (in California, of all places) don't take Visa cards, but they take some other credit card networks. Unfortunately all of my cards are Visa. So the app is the only option. But a lot of the time the app fails to start the charging. Perhaps the chargers have connectivity issues.
wmf 3y ago
Many chargers don't require an app.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  It depends. They might have a screen and can be used directly, but those screens are often broken, so app will still give you a better experience, at least at EA.
bdcravens 3y ago
I've only used Electrify America chargers, but you can charge using just a credit/debit card. When I had my gas car, I often used an app at gas stations, primarily to avoid card skimmers. (Tap to pay isn't ubiquitous at the pump)
sorenjan 3y ago
Hopefully this won't be needed soon and all cars and chargers will support Plug & Charge (ISO 15118)[0] after this annoying transition period. > The user-convenient and secure Plug & Charge feature that envisioned with ISO 15118 enables an electric vehicle to automatically identify and authorize itself to a compatible charging station on behalf of the driver, to receive energy for recharging its battery. The only action required by the driver is to plug the charging cable into the EV and/or charging station, because the car and the charger identify themselves to each other by exchanging certificates which were provided beforehand via a certificate pool to facilitate payment. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118
- castratikron 3y ago
  Just as soon as the PKI gets sorted out...
WorldMaker 3y ago
According to current statistics most gas refills are done with some sort of rewards card in tandem (Kroger Rewards, Meijer Rewards, etc). To some perspectives, those are also "apps" of a sort that feed the station owners email addresses and other tracking things.
jdeibele 3y ago
A couple of benefits to the apps: one is that you get exact information on the charging session. The bigger benefit is that some charging stations will stop charging once your battery is "full", wait a bit, then start charging an idle rate. The app can notify you about this or you can be texted or both since the station knows who you are. All EVs have a charging curve and typically the last 80% or 90% to full goes much more slowly than starting from 0% or 20%. In one case, ChargePoint decided that my Bolt EUV was charging too slowly and started charging me the idle rate without notifying me. Since the idle rate was $.25/minute, I ended up getting charged $1.50 or something like that. I didn't think the idle rate was unfair but I was literally waiting in a coffee shop for the car to get as charged as much as possible.

matmatmatmat 3y ago

I don't get the hate for the CCS connector? I use it multiple times a week, it works fine. Now and then I come across a charger that refuses to start, OK, the connector is worn. I suppose someone will come along and fix it. I have one in my garage; it does not sag under its own weight.

fnimick 3y ago
> I have one in my garage; it does not sag under its own weight. I agree with you that the CCS connector is perfectly inoffensive, but you're probably thinking of J1772, unless you have a DC fast charging station at home!
- matmatmatmat 3y ago
  Ah, you would be right, it appears I have a J1772 at home. I did not know that the CCS is a superset of the J1772 connector.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dheera 3y ago
> Now and then I come across a charger that refuses to start, OK, the connector is worn. Except this is about 50%+ of connectors in my area. Doesn't seem to happen to the Tesla connectors.

pdabbadabba 3y ago

I have no love for the CCS connector, but I've been exclusively driving a BEV with a CCS connector for more than a year and many of your complaints are completely foreign to me. > most CCS chargers just fail to start charging There's one charger in my neighborhood that is sometimes fiddly, but the vast majority of my charging experiences have been problem free. > Usually the car is expecting current when it is plugged in, and by the time you open up the app and figure out how to pay, the car has given up on the charger and won't charge when the charger is ready. I've never had anything like this experience. What charging network are you using? Electrify America chargers have credit card readers and don't require an app. EVGo chargers allow you to either use an app or tap an EVGo card. A bit annoying, I concede, but I have never had the timeout issue you describe. I'm also not sure what this complaint has to do with CCS. [Edit: Reading other comments, maybe EVGo chargers have CC readers too? Maybe I've just never noticed it because I have the EVGo payment card.] > The CCS connector is hideous No denying this one! >The CCS connector...sags under its own weight Not mine!

dheera 3y ago
> What charging network are you using? Mostly EVGo. At my nearest EVGo station all 3 chargers don't work. 1 has its software eternally crashed, the other never starts charging and only accepts MasterCard (no Visa), and the app fails to start charging. The 3rd has a physically broken connector. There is no "call for help" button like elevators have, so I just go to a Tesla Supercharger instead.
bottlepalm 3y ago
And if CCS worked as well for everyone as it does for you then they wouldn't be ditching it for NACS, but it doesn't so they are.
- pdabbadabba 3y ago
  I guess my real point is that most of these issues primarily seem to be caused by the design of the charger and/or car, not the connector. For example, does the fact that some charging networks require you to use an app to pay really have anything to do with the connector? The fact that some cars apparently implement the charging protocol in a way that results in them timing out while the user is trying to activate the charger? That some charging stations just don't work? I'd bet that we'll start hearing all sorts of similar complaints about the NACS connector once people start using them on cars from a wider array of manufacturers with NACS-equipped EA/EVGo/ChargePoint (or similar) charging stations. To be clear, I'm open to the possibility that NACS might be better. But I don't think it will be a panacea for peoples' EV charging issues. The CCS connector has become a scapegoat for a lot of the quality issues with non-Tesla charging networks.