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I find it a little disturbing the rising jingoism we are seeing in the states. Military recruitment ads are everywhere all of the sudden. It went away for a sol

I find it a little disturbing the rising jingoism we are seeing in the states. Military recruitment ads are everywhere all of the sudden. It went away for a solid decade after the catastrophe of Iraq and Afghanistan, but it seems like the war drums are beating once again. The fear mongering over China has reached an absolute fever pitch, and it feels eerily reminiscent of the 2002 media blitz to justify toppling Saddam.

gumballindie 3y ago
The china spat is _nowhere_ near the prelude to iraq’s invasion.
- vkou 3y ago
  Yeah, unlike Iraq, China actually does have WMDs. A shooting war with it is incredibly dangerous brinksmanship.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    I have a feeling that should push come to shove china will turn out to be an overrated “power”, much like russia. I have nothing against china to be honest, i admire their determination and capacity to grow, but absolutely dislike their desire to expand militarily. While war is dangerous and undesirable for us, it is worse and even less desirable for china. If anything, their posturing will galvanise the much needed relationship between the us, free europe, and aligned nations even further. Personally i find such outcome good for us, and totally not desirable for china, russia, and other wannabe “powers”.
    - sterlind 3y ago
      Unlike Russia, China actually makes stuff domestically. Like, a majority of the world's stuff, even. So their supply chain is rock solid. Also, China's corruption is a lot more.. functional.. than Russia. It oils the machine, blends with networking, rewards being a little greedy but punishes excess. And leadership is much more calculating and plans long-term. They've built on multi-decade plans successfully, frankly surpassing the West in that regard. And finally, I think war is equally undesirable for us and China, considering we both have nukes, and direct war between nuclear powers is unacceptable. Nuclear wars have no winners.
      - gumballindie 3y ago
        I agree with everything, particularly with: > And finally, I think war is equally undesirable for us and China, considering we both have nukes, and direct war between nuclear powers is unacceptable. Nuclear wars have no winners. It is a shame that china is taking the route of russia in lingering over its “glorious” past. If it would just settle it’s differences with taiwan and accept that taiwan can be like austria is for germany, allow hong kong a special status, and move on from all this petty posturing and warmongering, it would easily double its gdp and most important it would stand a chance at lifting its citizens out of poverty. But it all boils down to the “ambitions” of insecure leaders, as in any country that takes that route. And for me personally that makes china a huge disappointment - i really thought it could do better.
        vkou 3y ago
        It'll double it's GDP regardless of whether it follows through on its imperial ambitions or not, though. Meanwhile, the only thing that's doubling in Russia is the price of butter.
      - splistud 3y ago
        [dead]
- ramesh31 3y ago
  >The china spat is _nowhere_ near the prelude to iraq’s invasion. They're just getting warmed up. The way China's legitimate concerns are just completely washed away in the American press at this point is honestly terrifying. We don't stop for even a second to wonder how we'd feel about Chinese warships cruising 12 miles off the coast of Miami, regardless of the "legality" of it. There are concessions to be made on both sides. But if cable news were to be believed, you'd think that China was actively taking over the world. I am not simping for the CCP here. But we're starting to look apoplectic in comparison.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    > We don't stop for even a second to wonder how we'd feel about Chinese warships cruising off the coast of Miami, regardless of the "legality" of it. Spy balloons in your airspace is in a similar category. They weren’t armed, but could clearly spy.
    - gizmo686 3y ago
      Until 2020, the US was part of the Open Skys treaty, which was specifically for allowing member states to fly unarmed spy aircraft in each others airspace. China was never a member, so wasn't covered under it, but Russia was until they withdrew in 2021. The only reason the US responded at all was internall politics. Geopolitically, we already assume that anything with line-of-sight to the sky is observable, and that this is probably good for geopolitical stability.
  - jjoonathan 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ecshafer 3y ago
      Last I checked, Taiwan is not a territory or state of the United States. Why should some kid from Kansas pick up a rifle for Taiwan?
      - 3y ago
pixl97 3y ago
I mean Russia did start a war in continental europe, so you tell me?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
totalZero 3y ago
How do you propose that we maintain an all-volunteer military without recruitment? Returning veterans are going to carry military culture back into civilian life. That's just the reality of the situation after so many years in Iraq and Afghanistan. China is a real threat to American primacy and this time the battle is economic, but there are major military risks and we can't carry a big stick unless we keep the military in shape.
- kotaKat 3y ago
  I don't know, fix the current active retention problems ranging from straight up moldy barracks to various issues with access to food and DFAC quality to toxic leadership at every level of the chain of command across the organization?
- bllguo 3y ago
  Major military risks? Spare me. America is under zero threat of any attack; a child looking at a map could tell you this.
  - totalZero 3y ago
    What happens to the price of a laptop if China invades Taiwan?
    - krapp 3y ago
      Why should I be willing to die for the price of a laptop?
      - rainclouds 3y ago
        Like we make that choice. Drawn in with sex and sent to die for transistors seems Pretty accurate if you look at past utilization for resources.
    - hakfoo 3y ago
      If that's a fear worth courting WWIII over, shouldn't we have been considering the strategic importance of manufacturing stuff domestically for... IDK, the last forty years? TBH, I wonder if it would be worth tossing off a few political flashpoints in the name of greater global stability. Hand over Taiwan on a silver platter in exchange for long-term friendship and economic concessions. Could we get to a place where the relationships between major powers is more of "a loose partnership of equals with broad leeway for dissent" rather than "the US surrounded by imminent threats to US hegemony"? We're going to need China on our side for the next 50-100-200 years. In fact, the China that's currently being villianized is a more valuable partner than some fantasy "one day they wake up and switch to Western democracy" China, because they expand the tools available to respond to the next grand crisis.
rm_-rf_slash 3y ago
Recruitment is down[0]. America’s military is all volunteer. They’re advertising more to make up the shortfall. [0] https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/04/19/army-navy-and-air-force-predict-recruiting-shortfalls-this-year/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/04/19/...
jjoonathan 3y ago
[flagged]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
RajT88 3y ago
The drums of war never stop for major world powers. They wax and wane.
mhuffman 3y ago
> Military recruitment ads are everywhere all of the sudden. It is because all branches of the military are struggling to recruit. IMHO it is because there is a mismatch in the mentality of the people at the top of the military and the people they want to enlist.
scotty79 3y ago
Whole world is getting unnervingly militarized. 2022 put the brick on the gas pedal with cheering applause from the media.
jstarfish 3y ago
> I find it a little disturbing the rising jingoism we are seeing in the states. Military recruitment ads are everywhere all of the sudden. It went away for a solid decade after the catastrophe of Iraq and Afghanistan, but it seems like the war drums are beating once again. The fear mongering over China has reached an absolute fever pitch You're not wrong, but not right enough. Iraq was an obvious lie, but China is an actual threat. They're quickly teching up to meet the western world and have 3x as many bodies to throw into a conflict if everything else fails. Besides the recruiting efforts, there's less cutesy factors at play too, like the attack on abortion rights seemingly out of nowhere. Birth rates are down, which does not lend itself well to maintenance and replacement of a functional army should a conflict arise in the next three decades. Undermining abortion establishes a direct-to-military pipeline for young adults to escape desperate situations (yes, it's as ugly as it sounds-- such is war). Nobody's going to do anything about ongoing job displacement so we'll have a lot of desperate men of fighting age with nothing else to do. We're ramping up production capability again, but those jobs will go to robots and women after we hand the men rifles and ship them out to some atoll in the middle of the Pacific. The rest of us will eventually be conscripted out of necessity since this won't be some pointless skirmish in the Falklands, which will solve the retirement and housing crises. Gen Z will dodge the draft, embrace the Communist invaders they romanticize and experience life as subjugated citizens under occupation. Ironically, they don't really have anything to fight for. They've been conditioned to resent their ancestors, each other, and the idea of meritocracy. Let your parents die in war/childbirth and you'll net an early inheritance. Start learning Mandarin. It'll either help you get a job on a red team/intelligence unit or help you assimilate once it's all over.
- ragnot 3y ago
  Genius except that if China lands in the US then nukes fly. No winners there.
testacct22 3y ago
This article comes to mind https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/us/jrotc-schools-mandatory-automatic-enrollment.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/us/jrotc-schools-mandator... Tl;dr they're trying to pressure high schoolers into JROTC with stuff like automatic enrollment

gumballindie 3y ago

The china spat is _nowhere_ near the prelude to iraq’s invasion.

vkou 3y ago
Yeah, unlike Iraq, China actually does have WMDs. A shooting war with it is incredibly dangerous brinksmanship.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  I have a feeling that should push come to shove china will turn out to be an overrated “power”, much like russia. I have nothing against china to be honest, i admire their determination and capacity to grow, but absolutely dislike their desire to expand militarily. While war is dangerous and undesirable for us, it is worse and even less desirable for china. If anything, their posturing will galvanise the much needed relationship between the us, free europe, and aligned nations even further. Personally i find such outcome good for us, and totally not desirable for china, russia, and other wannabe “powers”.
  - sterlind 3y ago
    Unlike Russia, China actually makes stuff domestically. Like, a majority of the world's stuff, even. So their supply chain is rock solid. Also, China's corruption is a lot more.. functional.. than Russia. It oils the machine, blends with networking, rewards being a little greedy but punishes excess. And leadership is much more calculating and plans long-term. They've built on multi-decade plans successfully, frankly surpassing the West in that regard. And finally, I think war is equally undesirable for us and China, considering we both have nukes, and direct war between nuclear powers is unacceptable. Nuclear wars have no winners.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      I agree with everything, particularly with: > And finally, I think war is equally undesirable for us and China, considering we both have nukes, and direct war between nuclear powers is unacceptable. Nuclear wars have no winners. It is a shame that china is taking the route of russia in lingering over its “glorious” past. If it would just settle it’s differences with taiwan and accept that taiwan can be like austria is for germany, allow hong kong a special status, and move on from all this petty posturing and warmongering, it would easily double its gdp and most important it would stand a chance at lifting its citizens out of poverty. But it all boils down to the “ambitions” of insecure leaders, as in any country that takes that route. And for me personally that makes china a huge disappointment - i really thought it could do better.
      - vkou 3y ago
        It'll double it's GDP regardless of whether it follows through on its imperial ambitions or not, though. Meanwhile, the only thing that's doubling in Russia is the price of butter.
    - splistud 3y ago
      [dead]
ramesh31 3y ago
>The china spat is _nowhere_ near the prelude to iraq’s invasion. They're just getting warmed up. The way China's legitimate concerns are just completely washed away in the American press at this point is honestly terrifying. We don't stop for even a second to wonder how we'd feel about Chinese warships cruising 12 miles off the coast of Miami, regardless of the "legality" of it. There are concessions to be made on both sides. But if cable news were to be believed, you'd think that China was actively taking over the world. I am not simping for the CCP here. But we're starting to look apoplectic in comparison.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > We don't stop for even a second to wonder how we'd feel about Chinese warships cruising off the coast of Miami, regardless of the "legality" of it. Spy balloons in your airspace is in a similar category. They weren’t armed, but could clearly spy.
  - gizmo686 3y ago
    Until 2020, the US was part of the Open Skys treaty, which was specifically for allowing member states to fly unarmed spy aircraft in each others airspace. China was never a member, so wasn't covered under it, but Russia was until they withdrew in 2021. The only reason the US responded at all was internall politics. Geopolitically, we already assume that anything with line-of-sight to the sky is observable, and that this is probably good for geopolitical stability.
- jjoonathan 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ecshafer 3y ago
    Last I checked, Taiwan is not a territory or state of the United States. Why should some kid from Kansas pick up a rifle for Taiwan?
    - 3y ago

pixl97 3y ago

I mean Russia did start a war in continental europe, so you tell me?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

totalZero 3y ago

How do you propose that we maintain an all-volunteer military without recruitment? Returning veterans are going to carry military culture back into civilian life. That's just the reality of the situation after so many years in Iraq and Afghanistan. China is a real threat to American primacy and this time the battle is economic, but there are major military risks and we can't carry a big stick unless we keep the military in shape.

kotaKat 3y ago
I don't know, fix the current active retention problems ranging from straight up moldy barracks to various issues with access to food and DFAC quality to toxic leadership at every level of the chain of command across the organization?
bllguo 3y ago
Major military risks? Spare me. America is under zero threat of any attack; a child looking at a map could tell you this.
- totalZero 3y ago
  What happens to the price of a laptop if China invades Taiwan?
  - krapp 3y ago
    Why should I be willing to die for the price of a laptop?
    - rainclouds 3y ago
      Like we make that choice. Drawn in with sex and sent to die for transistors seems Pretty accurate if you look at past utilization for resources.
  - hakfoo 3y ago
    If that's a fear worth courting WWIII over, shouldn't we have been considering the strategic importance of manufacturing stuff domestically for... IDK, the last forty years? TBH, I wonder if it would be worth tossing off a few political flashpoints in the name of greater global stability. Hand over Taiwan on a silver platter in exchange for long-term friendship and economic concessions. Could we get to a place where the relationships between major powers is more of "a loose partnership of equals with broad leeway for dissent" rather than "the US surrounded by imminent threats to US hegemony"? We're going to need China on our side for the next 50-100-200 years. In fact, the China that's currently being villianized is a more valuable partner than some fantasy "one day they wake up and switch to Western democracy" China, because they expand the tools available to respond to the next grand crisis.

rm_-rf_slash 3y ago

Recruitment is down[0]. America’s military is all volunteer. They’re advertising more to make up the shortfall. [0] https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/04/19/army-navy-and-air-force-predict-recruiting-shortfalls-this-year/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/04/19/...

jjoonathan 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

RajT88 3y ago

The drums of war never stop for major world powers. They wax and wane.

mhuffman 3y ago

> Military recruitment ads are everywhere all of the sudden. It is because all branches of the military are struggling to recruit. IMHO it is because there is a mismatch in the mentality of the people at the top of the military and the people they want to enlist.

scotty79 3y ago

Whole world is getting unnervingly militarized. 2022 put the brick on the gas pedal with cheering applause from the media.

jstarfish 3y ago

> I find it a little disturbing the rising jingoism we are seeing in the states. Military recruitment ads are everywhere all of the sudden. It went away for a solid decade after the catastrophe of Iraq and Afghanistan, but it seems like the war drums are beating once again. The fear mongering over China has reached an absolute fever pitch You're not wrong, but not right enough. Iraq was an obvious lie, but China is an actual threat. They're quickly teching up to meet the western world and have 3x as many bodies to throw into a conflict if everything else fails. Besides the recruiting efforts, there's less cutesy factors at play too, like the attack on abortion rights seemingly out of nowhere. Birth rates are down, which does not lend itself well to maintenance and replacement of a functional army should a conflict arise in the next three decades. Undermining abortion establishes a direct-to-military pipeline for young adults to escape desperate situations (yes, it's as ugly as it sounds-- such is war). Nobody's going to do anything about ongoing job displacement so we'll have a lot of desperate men of fighting age with nothing else to do. We're ramping up production capability again, but those jobs will go to robots and women after we hand the men rifles and ship them out to some atoll in the middle of the Pacific. The rest of us will eventually be conscripted out of necessity since this won't be some pointless skirmish in the Falklands, which will solve the retirement and housing crises. Gen Z will dodge the draft, embrace the Communist invaders they romanticize and experience life as subjugated citizens under occupation. Ironically, they don't really have anything to fight for. They've been conditioned to resent their ancestors, each other, and the idea of meritocracy. Let your parents die in war/childbirth and you'll net an early inheritance. Start learning Mandarin. It'll either help you get a job on a red team/intelligence unit or help you assimilate once it's all over.

ragnot 3y ago
Genius except that if China lands in the US then nukes fly. No winners there.

testacct22 3y ago

This article comes to mind https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/us/jrotc-schools-mandatory-automatic-enrollment.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/us/jrotc-schools-mandator... Tl;dr they're trying to pressure high schoolers into JROTC with stuff like automatic enrollment