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The angle was "buy Apollo from me": > "If third-party apps are costing Reddit so much money, why don't they just buy them out like they did Alien Blue?" That w

The angle was "buy Apollo from me": > "If third-party apps are costing Reddit so much money, why don't they just buy them out like they did Alien Blue?" That was the point I brought up. If running Apollo as it stands now would cost you $20 million yearly as you quote, I suggested you cut a check to me to end Apollo. I said I'd even do it for half that or six months worth: $10 million, what a deal! And it would have been a deal: 6 months of opportunity cost upfront to then turn into real profit. Instead they are permanently lose the [possibly] majority of that opportunity when those users lose access to Reddit.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
>And it would have been a deal: 6 months of opportunity cost upfront to then turn into real profit. Instead they are permanently lose the [possibly] majority of that opportunity when those users lose access to Reddit. I dont think that is accurate. Reddit doesnt make 20M a year if they buy Apollo in this situation. If something costs 20 million/yr to operate, buying it doesnt reduce that cost. You are just out 10M upfront and then 20M/yr. The solution is not to buy it, but to make it stop.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  They seem to think the 20 million is payable. Even if they could only get a quarter of that from users, they'd be rolling in money after a year or two. > and then 20M/yr The servers don't cost anywhere near that much to run.
  - comprev 3y ago
    Unless you use AWS :-)
- pooper 3y ago
  This forces Reddit to say out loud that the reason they want to introduce payments is to make third party apps stop. Reddit has to say that the pricing it has is reasonable which means that they have to say Apollo can earn (at least!) USD 20M a year. If Apollo can earn USD 20M a year, buying it for USD 10M is indeed a steal. Normally, if you think a company makes 20M a year, you have to pay at least x 5, so USD 100M to buy this money printing machine.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Claiming something costs you 20M/yr, doesn't mean that it can make 20M/yr. >If Apollo can earn USD 20M a year, buying it for USD 10M is indeed a steal. Not if you can get the same thing for doing nothing. Buy Apollo for 10M up front and make 20M/yr or dont buy Apollo and make 20M/yr. Does it really look like a steal when the alternative is free?
- zamalek 3y ago
  > Reddit doesnt make 20M a year if they buy Apollo in this situation. They claim that they would.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    No, they claim Apollo costs them 20M/yr (agreeably dubious). That doesnt mean Apollo can make 20M/yr if reddit owns it.
    - zamalek 3y ago
      Opportunity cost essentially means lost revenue. They (Reddit) aren't referring to server/egress/cloud/etc. costs. Eliminating lost revenue = new revenue.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        >Opportunity cost essentially means lost revenue. They (Reddit) aren't referring to server/egress/cloud/etc. costs. Eliminating lost revenue = new revenue Sure, but that doesn't mean buying/owning apollo helps them eliminate that lost revenue. They eliminate lost revenue when Apollo stops existing, not when they buy it. What is the point of buying it if you dont want it to exist? Take 2 options: A> Buy Apollo for $10M, Apollo shuts down, 20M new revenue B> Don't buy Apollo, Apollo shuts down, 20M new revenue Spending $10M doesn't stop the losses, Apollo shutting down does.
        neoromantique 3y ago
        I utilized a JavaScript script to delete all of my comments and posts from the past ten years. Despite adding delays between deletions, it took multiple tries over several days because some posts kept reappearing. I guess I want to emphasize that despite not being 3p client user (I was using old.reddit.com), this situation hurts sites reputation enough to bleed me as an user, enough for me to go through the trouble of actually wiping the account, in stead of leaving my content with me under <deleted>. It is unlikely they'll feel short-term traffic effects of this, but content quality will suffer for sure, will see how that'll pan out. (From the safety of HN comments, of course).
- nikaspran 3y ago
  According to the quotes by Reddit themselves, the 20M a year is opportunity cost, not actual cost.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    agreed. Owning Apollo doesnt reduce the opportunity cost. They still lose 20M, but now they own Apollo.
IAmGraydon 3y ago
How do you think the Apollo users will lose access to Reddit?
- comprev 3y ago
  The Apollo app makes API calls to their own server, which in turn makes calls to Reddit’s API. From 30 June this proxy server will not function.
  - IAmGraydon 3y ago
    I'm aware, but that doesn't cut off Apollo users from Reddit. They will just have to use a different app or the official app.
    - BEEdwards 3y ago
      Most of the other popular apps are also shutting down and the official app is garbage. If I can't use Sync I'm not going to use reddit.
    - comprev 3y ago
      The key issue seems to be the 80/20 rule. The 80% are anonymous lurkers or accounts that very rarely post anything. The remaining 20% is split 15/5, with the former being frequent contributors to discussions - and the final 5% being _content submitters_ . The 5% power users interact via 3rd party apps because, quite frankly, the "official" UIs (App, Website) are totally shite. They also maintain the automated tooling to keep order of communities - again, accessed via API. Without the 5% submitting content, the 15% won't interact and provide the remaining 80% material to read. No material to consume = no advert page impressions = no revenue stream.
      - satvikpendem 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule, actually
    - 3y ago
willidiots 3y ago
Reddit would need to monetize those users, presumably by adding ads etc to Apollo, eventually turning Apollo into the Reddit app which already exists today (and which Apollo users don't want to use). Only the users willing to tolerate Reddit's enshittified UX would stick around. Reddit can just force Apollo to shut down and accomplish the same for $10M less.
- inetknght 3y ago
  > Reddit would need to monetize those users Apollo already has monetized users with subscription costs. Well, had monetized users.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

>And it would have been a deal: 6 months of opportunity cost upfront to then turn into real profit. Instead they are permanently lose the [possibly] majority of that opportunity when those users lose access to Reddit. I dont think that is accurate. Reddit doesnt make 20M a year if they buy Apollo in this situation. If something costs 20 million/yr to operate, buying it doesnt reduce that cost. You are just out 10M upfront and then 20M/yr. The solution is not to buy it, but to make it stop.

Dylan16807 3y ago
They seem to think the 20 million is payable. Even if they could only get a quarter of that from users, they'd be rolling in money after a year or two. > and then 20M/yr The servers don't cost anywhere near that much to run.
- comprev 3y ago
  Unless you use AWS :-)
pooper 3y ago
This forces Reddit to say out loud that the reason they want to introduce payments is to make third party apps stop. Reddit has to say that the pricing it has is reasonable which means that they have to say Apollo can earn (at least!) USD 20M a year. If Apollo can earn USD 20M a year, buying it for USD 10M is indeed a steal. Normally, if you think a company makes 20M a year, you have to pay at least x 5, so USD 100M to buy this money printing machine.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Claiming something costs you 20M/yr, doesn't mean that it can make 20M/yr. >If Apollo can earn USD 20M a year, buying it for USD 10M is indeed a steal. Not if you can get the same thing for doing nothing. Buy Apollo for 10M up front and make 20M/yr or dont buy Apollo and make 20M/yr. Does it really look like a steal when the alternative is free?
zamalek 3y ago
> Reddit doesnt make 20M a year if they buy Apollo in this situation. They claim that they would.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  No, they claim Apollo costs them 20M/yr (agreeably dubious). That doesnt mean Apollo can make 20M/yr if reddit owns it.
  - zamalek 3y ago
    Opportunity cost essentially means lost revenue. They (Reddit) aren't referring to server/egress/cloud/etc. costs. Eliminating lost revenue = new revenue.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      >Opportunity cost essentially means lost revenue. They (Reddit) aren't referring to server/egress/cloud/etc. costs. Eliminating lost revenue = new revenue Sure, but that doesn't mean buying/owning apollo helps them eliminate that lost revenue. They eliminate lost revenue when Apollo stops existing, not when they buy it. What is the point of buying it if you dont want it to exist? Take 2 options: A> Buy Apollo for $10M, Apollo shuts down, 20M new revenue B> Don't buy Apollo, Apollo shuts down, 20M new revenue Spending $10M doesn't stop the losses, Apollo shutting down does.
      - neoromantique 3y ago
        I utilized a JavaScript script to delete all of my comments and posts from the past ten years. Despite adding delays between deletions, it took multiple tries over several days because some posts kept reappearing. I guess I want to emphasize that despite not being 3p client user (I was using old.reddit.com), this situation hurts sites reputation enough to bleed me as an user, enough for me to go through the trouble of actually wiping the account, in stead of leaving my content with me under <deleted>. It is unlikely they'll feel short-term traffic effects of this, but content quality will suffer for sure, will see how that'll pan out. (From the safety of HN comments, of course).
nikaspran 3y ago
According to the quotes by Reddit themselves, the 20M a year is opportunity cost, not actual cost.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  agreed. Owning Apollo doesnt reduce the opportunity cost. They still lose 20M, but now they own Apollo.

IAmGraydon 3y ago

How do you think the Apollo users will lose access to Reddit?

comprev 3y ago
The Apollo app makes API calls to their own server, which in turn makes calls to Reddit’s API. From 30 June this proxy server will not function.
- IAmGraydon 3y ago
  I'm aware, but that doesn't cut off Apollo users from Reddit. They will just have to use a different app or the official app.
  - BEEdwards 3y ago
    Most of the other popular apps are also shutting down and the official app is garbage. If I can't use Sync I'm not going to use reddit.
  - comprev 3y ago
    The key issue seems to be the 80/20 rule. The 80% are anonymous lurkers or accounts that very rarely post anything. The remaining 20% is split 15/5, with the former being frequent contributors to discussions - and the final 5% being _content submitters_ . The 5% power users interact via 3rd party apps because, quite frankly, the "official" UIs (App, Website) are totally shite. They also maintain the automated tooling to keep order of communities - again, accessed via API. Without the 5% submitting content, the 15% won't interact and provide the remaining 80% material to read. No material to consume = no advert page impressions = no revenue stream.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule, actually
  - 3y ago

willidiots 3y ago

Reddit would need to monetize those users, presumably by adding ads etc to Apollo, eventually turning Apollo into the Reddit app which already exists today (and which Apollo users don't want to use). Only the users willing to tolerate Reddit's enshittified UX would stick around. Reddit can just force Apollo to shut down and accomplish the same for $10M less.

inetknght 3y ago
> Reddit would need to monetize those users Apollo already has monetized users with subscription costs. Well, had monetized users.