8 ms·

The article is making it seem like trap-neuter-release is a completely new strategy, but groups in NYC and elsewhere have been employing it for a long time. Wha

by morley 3y ago

The article is making it seem like trap-neuter-release is a completely new strategy, but groups in NYC and elsewhere have been employing it for a long time. What's new is that Flatbush Cats is building a new vet clinic to provide more spaying / neutering capacity.

romwell 3y ago
NYT seems to be running an anti-cat agenda. This article calls trap-neuter-release (TNR) a "controversial" practice, whereas it's well established and proven to be effective (something even this article says). A few years back, they ran a full-blown frontal assault[1] on Google's volunteer-ran TNR program, gCat, blaming the TNR program (and only the TNR program) for the decline of the local burrowing owl population. This led to Google forcing the shut-down of the employee-ran TNR program, and extermination of the remaining neutered cats that couldn't be immediately adopted. To say that this was devastating to people involved is an understatement. Of course, this was utter nonsense. The decline of the burrowing owl population is well-studied, and in all cases I know of has been attributed to destruction of habitat - both in the Mountain View area and beyond it [2][3][4][5]. Preservation plans - when they even mention cats - put them dead last on the list of reasons. The cause for extinction is simple. Burrowing owls need two things for their habitat: (1) soft ground for the holes; (2) other animals, like squirrels or prairie dogs, to dig holes for owls to burrow in. I have a hunch that a certain Mountain View company rapidly expanding its campus circa 2018 wasn't conducive to preservation of the said habitat, and "kill all cats" was a simpler solution to the problem than halting construction[6] (also see: [7]). But having an indignant NYT article as a justification for felicide has sealed the fate of the cats who got used to coming to the same place for food. In the aftermath of the shutdown, the local feral cat population predictably exploded[8], and the burrowing owl population at Shoreline Park went down to zero[9]. The report says: >Habitat loss and direct human disturbance have been the main observable factors for the population decline at this site. Cats - feral or TNR'd - are not mentioned in the report. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/technology/google-cats-owls.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/technology/google-cats-ow... [2]http://www.elkhornsloughctp.org/uploads/files/1408724962Mountain%20View%20Burrowing%20owl%20management%20plan.pdf http://www.elkhornsloughctp.org/uploads/files/1408724962Moun... [3] https://mv-voice.com/news/2016/11/15/worries-over-dwindling-burrowing-owl-population https://mv-voice.com/news/2016/11/15/worries-over-dwindling-... [4]https://mv-voice.com/news/2012/04/06/new-hope-for-citys-burrowing-owls https://mv-voice.com/news/2012/04/06/new-hope-for-citys-burr... [5]https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5226899.pdf https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb52268... [6]https://www.whiskersproject.org/latest-news https://www.whiskersproject.org/latest-news [7]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36235779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36235779 [8]https://www.mv-voice.com/news/2021/11/16/feral-cats-in-mountain-views-north-bayshore-prompt-surge-of-complaints-raising-tough-questions-about-cat-colonies https://www.mv-voice.com/news/2021/11/16/feral-cats-in-mount... [9]Page 11, https://www.scv-habitatagency.org/DocumentCenter/View/1387/SCVHA-BUOW-Report-2020_Dec-8 https://www.scv-habitatagency.org/DocumentCenter/View/1387/S... ---- TL;DR: NYT made Google kill all cats on Google campus.
- rcpt 3y ago
  I'm sorry but you're dreaming of you think that feral cats aren't destroying local bird populations.
  - romwell 3y ago
    I'm sorry, but you seem to be ignorant of the facts. I have provided extensive references for everything I said. Please read them before typing out your gut response. While cats, in general, are a threat to birds, these particular cats were not a threat to these particular birds.
    - rcpt 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - romwell 3y ago
        I repeat my request to actually read the words that I wrote, along with the references, and respond to that instead of the emotions you're feeling. Please read these points carefully: 1. While cats, in general, are a threat to birds, the cats managed by the TNR program on Google Campus were not a threat to burrowing owls in the Shoreline park; 2. Shutdown of the TNR program resulted in the increase of the feral cat population, and had no positive impact on the owls; 3. The primary threat to the burrowing owls is human interference and destruction of habitat. These birds are not particularly threatened by stray cats in the first place. 4. Saying that the general statement applies to a particular case without looking at the facts is a fallacy. TL;DR: "cats are a threat to birds" doesn't imply that my house cat in the US is a threat to kiwis in New Zealand.
        rcpt 3y ago
        This is a discussion about NYC. I don't know why you're focused on Mountain View. Do you think that you can somehow generalize from that to NYC?
  - 3y ago
elicash 3y ago
No it isn't. The article brings up the term about halfway into the article and immediately say it was "first developed in England in the 1950s." This is right before they even define what TNR is! Then they immediately go into what other cities have done on this front.
- 8note 3y ago
  The 50s is a pretty long time ago by 2020. It's not so recent as it was in the 80s or the 00s

by morley 3y ago

romwell 3y ago

NYT seems to be running an anti-cat agenda. This article calls trap-neuter-release (TNR) a "controversial" practice, whereas it's well established and proven to be effective (something even this article says). A few years back, they ran a full-blown frontal assault[1] on Google's volunteer-ran TNR program, gCat, blaming the TNR program (and only the TNR program) for the decline of the local burrowing owl population. This led to Google forcing the shut-down of the employee-ran TNR program, and extermination of the remaining neutered cats that couldn't be immediately adopted. To say that this was devastating to people involved is an understatement. Of course, this was utter nonsense. The decline of the burrowing owl population is well-studied, and in all cases I know of has been attributed to destruction of habitat - both in the Mountain View area and beyond it [2][3][4][5]. Preservation plans - when they even mention cats - put them dead last on the list of reasons. The cause for extinction is simple. Burrowing owls need two things for their habitat: (1) soft ground for the holes; (2) other animals, like squirrels or prairie dogs, to dig holes for owls to burrow in. I have a hunch that a certain Mountain View company rapidly expanding its campus circa 2018 wasn't conducive to preservation of the said habitat, and "kill all cats" was a simpler solution to the problem than halting construction[6] (also see: [7]). But having an indignant NYT article as a justification for felicide has sealed the fate of the cats who got used to coming to the same place for food. In the aftermath of the shutdown, the local feral cat population predictably exploded[8], and the burrowing owl population at Shoreline Park went down to zero[9]. The report says: >Habitat loss and direct human disturbance have been the main observable factors for the population decline at this site. Cats - feral or TNR'd - are not mentioned in the report. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/technology/google-cats-owls.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/technology/google-cats-ow... [2]http://www.elkhornsloughctp.org/uploads/files/1408724962Mountain%20View%20Burrowing%20owl%20management%20plan.pdf http://www.elkhornsloughctp.org/uploads/files/1408724962Moun... [3] https://mv-voice.com/news/2016/11/15/worries-over-dwindling-burrowing-owl-population https://mv-voice.com/news/2016/11/15/worries-over-dwindling-... [4]https://mv-voice.com/news/2012/04/06/new-hope-for-citys-burrowing-owls https://mv-voice.com/news/2012/04/06/new-hope-for-citys-burr... [5]https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5226899.pdf https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb52268... [6]https://www.whiskersproject.org/latest-news https://www.whiskersproject.org/latest-news [7]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36235779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36235779 [8]https://www.mv-voice.com/news/2021/11/16/feral-cats-in-mountain-views-north-bayshore-prompt-surge-of-complaints-raising-tough-questions-about-cat-colonies https://www.mv-voice.com/news/2021/11/16/feral-cats-in-mount... [9]Page 11, https://www.scv-habitatagency.org/DocumentCenter/View/1387/SCVHA-BUOW-Report-2020_Dec-8 https://www.scv-habitatagency.org/DocumentCenter/View/1387/S... ---- TL;DR: NYT made Google kill all cats on Google campus.

rcpt 3y ago
I'm sorry but you're dreaming of you think that feral cats aren't destroying local bird populations.
- romwell 3y ago
  I'm sorry, but you seem to be ignorant of the facts. I have provided extensive references for everything I said. Please read them before typing out your gut response. While cats, in general, are a threat to birds, these particular cats were not a threat to these particular birds.
  - rcpt 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - romwell 3y ago
      I repeat my request to actually read the words that I wrote, along with the references, and respond to that instead of the emotions you're feeling. Please read these points carefully: 1. While cats, in general, are a threat to birds, the cats managed by the TNR program on Google Campus were not a threat to burrowing owls in the Shoreline park; 2. Shutdown of the TNR program resulted in the increase of the feral cat population, and had no positive impact on the owls; 3. The primary threat to the burrowing owls is human interference and destruction of habitat. These birds are not particularly threatened by stray cats in the first place. 4. Saying that the general statement applies to a particular case without looking at the facts is a fallacy. TL;DR: "cats are a threat to birds" doesn't imply that my house cat in the US is a threat to kiwis in New Zealand.
      - rcpt 3y ago
        This is a discussion about NYC. I don't know why you're focused on Mountain View. Do you think that you can somehow generalize from that to NYC?
- 3y ago

elicash 3y ago

No it isn't. The article brings up the term about halfway into the article and immediately say it was "first developed in England in the 1950s." This is right before they even define what TNR is! Then they immediately go into what other cities have done on this front.

8note 3y ago
The 50s is a pretty long time ago by 2020. It's not so recent as it was in the 80s or the 00s