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What a thing to say. The occupation and ethnic cleansing of that “strip of land” has produced millions of refugees whose lives have been - and continue to be -

What a thing to say. The occupation and ethnic cleansing of that “strip of land” has produced millions of refugees whose lives have been - and continue to be - upended for decades. I wonder if you were one of the children of these refugee camps — would you say the same? Here’s a book for you to read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Pale... Will you actually read it?

edanm 3y ago
(Note: I'm Israeli) You are simplifying the issue to the point of absurdity. It's not "Israelis are angels, Palestinians are devils", but it's not the reverse either. It's a complex issue in which there isn't an easy path out, because of the actions of both sides. Israel isn't solely to blame for the problems of the Palestinians; they were even refugees in Arab countries before they became Israeli refugees. And their current situation is at least partially caused by themselves, and at least partially caused by the fact that other powers in the region have a lot of incentive for the conflict to continue. It's also partially caused by Israel having incentive to continue the current situation, as it is strategically beneficial to Israel. (Which of course doesn't make it right!) More to the point of your original post, I think coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian situation is very biased against Israel in most parts of the world, including the US. And I say this even as someone who is very "leftist" in my views of the situation, and absolutely hate what our current government is doing (in many ways, but including in this way). And in fact, I hate how Israel has acted over the last many years, though I, like most Israeli, have no idea how to "fix" the current situation.
- epups 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - mu53 3y ago
    He gave a nuanced answer acknowledging the complexity of history and human behavior. Your response made it black and white. At what point in history did any leader of Israel have any chance to change the course of history? I have learned more about this subject than I have wanted to, and since the event that ended in 1945, they have done the best they can with what they had
    - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
      They conquered the whole Sinai peninsula and then gave it back! Beats Russia's track record.
    - epups 3y ago
      The situation here is black and white. Israel is and has been on the driver's seat for the last 50 years, and for decades now has been practicing terrorism and collective punishment against civilians. They could, I don't know, not bomb children and assassinate journalists like they do every other week?
- woooooo 3y ago
  I was with you on the nuance until you said "US" -- we have actual laws making it illegal to boycott Israel in a bunch of states. Its not illegal to boycott anything else on the planet, just Israel. Any politician who steps out of line on the issue, even just pointing at obvious facts on the ground, is disciplined immediately. See what happened to Rashida Tlaib a few years ago for making mild factual observations.
  - edanm 3y ago
    I'm not sure you're being accurate about the laws against boycotting Israel - from what I remember, there's only laws against the federal government hiring workers that boycott Israel. A private citizen (or company) can still boycott Israel to their heart's content, IIRC. I could be wrong on that though. I'm opposed to laws against boycotting, fwiw.
    - woooooo 3y ago
      Either way, no other country or organization gets that level of deference over here.
- jacooper 3y ago
  Its not a complex issue, stop your BS. Its an occupation started by the Arther Balfour deceleration in 1917. Started with Zionist crime gangs that later turned into the mossad and other occupational military forces who run the apartheid occupation. It doesn't matter where Palestinians come from, why they live there, etc, ITS AN OCCUPATION, as simple as that. Its an occupation of one of the holliest lands for all three religions, with ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Muslims and Christians, through every way possible, killing journalists, children, families, mass killings. Yet when Palestinians go to defend their land and their rights they are called terrorists, what unfavorable coverage are you talking about? Palestinians throwing Molotovs against occupation forces? Terrorists, Ukrainians doing the exact same thing? Heros.
- DSingularity 3y ago
  I mean in some ways the fact that Israelis are not all angels and Palestinians are not all devils is precisely my point. But look at the US media. They border line worship the Israeli army. Yeah — the same army that assassinated Tamimis father and killed her baby brother in the process. The same army that protects a sniper that journalist Shireen in the head. How is that not fucked? But the whole “both sides are wrong” issue is total bullshit. One side has all the power and the other exists below the boot. One side is actively ethnically cleansing Palestine and the other side is being ethnically cleansed. You can’t possibly make both sides equal in blame.

edanm 3y ago

(Note: I'm Israeli) You are simplifying the issue to the point of absurdity. It's not "Israelis are angels, Palestinians are devils", but it's not the reverse either. It's a complex issue in which there isn't an easy path out, because of the actions of both sides. Israel isn't solely to blame for the problems of the Palestinians; they were even refugees in Arab countries before they became Israeli refugees. And their current situation is at least partially caused by themselves, and at least partially caused by the fact that other powers in the region have a lot of incentive for the conflict to continue. It's also partially caused by Israel having incentive to continue the current situation, as it is strategically beneficial to Israel. (Which of course doesn't make it right!) More to the point of your original post, I think coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian situation is very biased against Israel in most parts of the world, including the US. And I say this even as someone who is very "leftist" in my views of the situation, and absolutely hate what our current government is doing (in many ways, but including in this way). And in fact, I hate how Israel has acted over the last many years, though I, like most Israeli, have no idea how to "fix" the current situation.

epups 3y ago
[flagged]
- mu53 3y ago
  He gave a nuanced answer acknowledging the complexity of history and human behavior. Your response made it black and white. At what point in history did any leader of Israel have any chance to change the course of history? I have learned more about this subject than I have wanted to, and since the event that ended in 1945, they have done the best they can with what they had
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    They conquered the whole Sinai peninsula and then gave it back! Beats Russia's track record.
  - epups 3y ago
    The situation here is black and white. Israel is and has been on the driver's seat for the last 50 years, and for decades now has been practicing terrorism and collective punishment against civilians. They could, I don't know, not bomb children and assassinate journalists like they do every other week?
woooooo 3y ago
I was with you on the nuance until you said "US" -- we have actual laws making it illegal to boycott Israel in a bunch of states. Its not illegal to boycott anything else on the planet, just Israel. Any politician who steps out of line on the issue, even just pointing at obvious facts on the ground, is disciplined immediately. See what happened to Rashida Tlaib a few years ago for making mild factual observations.
- edanm 3y ago
  I'm not sure you're being accurate about the laws against boycotting Israel - from what I remember, there's only laws against the federal government hiring workers that boycott Israel. A private citizen (or company) can still boycott Israel to their heart's content, IIRC. I could be wrong on that though. I'm opposed to laws against boycotting, fwiw.
  - woooooo 3y ago
    Either way, no other country or organization gets that level of deference over here.
jacooper 3y ago
Its not a complex issue, stop your BS. Its an occupation started by the Arther Balfour deceleration in 1917. Started with Zionist crime gangs that later turned into the mossad and other occupational military forces who run the apartheid occupation. It doesn't matter where Palestinians come from, why they live there, etc, ITS AN OCCUPATION, as simple as that. Its an occupation of one of the holliest lands for all three religions, with ethnic cleansing against Palestinian Muslims and Christians, through every way possible, killing journalists, children, families, mass killings. Yet when Palestinians go to defend their land and their rights they are called terrorists, what unfavorable coverage are you talking about? Palestinians throwing Molotovs against occupation forces? Terrorists, Ukrainians doing the exact same thing? Heros.
DSingularity 3y ago
I mean in some ways the fact that Israelis are not all angels and Palestinians are not all devils is precisely my point. But look at the US media. They border line worship the Israeli army. Yeah — the same army that assassinated Tamimis father and killed her baby brother in the process. The same army that protects a sniper that journalist Shireen in the head. How is that not fucked? But the whole “both sides are wrong” issue is total bullshit. One side has all the power and the other exists below the boot. One side is actively ethnically cleansing Palestine and the other side is being ethnically cleansed. You can’t possibly make both sides equal in blame.