6 ms·

Both Google and Facebook were in the process of building little company towns, mixed-ish residential/office zones, is my understanding. Both on pause indefinite

Both Google and Facebook were in the process of building little company towns, mixed-ish residential/office zones, is my understanding. Both on pause indefinitely. On the one hand, I makes sense to pause. On the other hand, making vibrant light urban spaces feels like something they could pull off & really build on. Become a destination company.

akomtu 3y ago
In those wonderful towns, residents not only get fired for wrongthink, they also get evicted by the corporate police. The omnipresent cctv cameras help residents stay in line with the community standards of inclusive speech and behavior.
- amrocha 3y ago
  Why do you have a persecution complex?
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    Because they don't live in China
  - CoastalCoder 3y ago
    I don't know if GP has any examples to back up the claim, but it does seem plausible to me. I.e., if: (1) living in the company town is contingent on being an employee, (2) being accused of politically incorrect speech can end one's employment, and (3) eviction is ultimately backed by state-sanctioned violence, then I can see the logic. I'm just not aware of any examples of this actually happening. OTOH, I have no idea if the plans for those company towns involved behavior standards for conduct in the residential areas, outside of working hours. The overall setup sounds really dystopian, so hopefully this is the last we'll ever think about it.
    - amrocha 3y ago
      >I'm just not aware of any examples if this actually happening That's the point. Google by and large treats its employees really well. There's no reason to think it would push this dystopian version of employee housing, instead of something a lot more tame. The only explanation I can think of is that some people just like thinking of themselves as the little guy against the world.
      - samtho 3y ago
        It’s the consolation of power that is concerning. The idea that one single institution that is accountable to nobody but it’s shareholders can dictate where you live, eat, who your friends are, and where your family is. Many very-bad, dictatorship-type regimes have come into power with immense public support - a public that thought they would continue to be treated well.
        rektide 3y ago
        On the other hand, the rest of the world being exploiting wolves of capitalism fucking over everyone, obstructing most everyone trying to get started & make their way seems to be the actual evil here. I agree there's potentials for the company to grow mean & sour, to exploit the position of granter of a reasonably good life. Ideally a good life should also be available by other means. What really is damned in this condemnation is the rest of the world, which lacks in offerances & alternatives. The idea is that this is a destination company. Your whole premise is that people get exploited. Maybe over time that's true, but you will never create a destination company by being a shitty fuck.
        amrocha 3y ago
        I don't know why you're going to such lengths to defend someone who claimed they would be arrested by the corporate cops for thought crime. Over Google building some employee housing close to their office.
    - samtho 3y ago
      There are a few examples in history and it never really works out long term: Pullman is notable for its wage cuts of workers (while still charging the same for everything in the town they owned) which caused a major strike that got ugly: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Company#Company_town https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Company#Company_town Pripyat, in Soviet-Ukraine, a “nuclear town” was established and subsequently evacuated when the infamous meltdown occurred: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pripyat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pripyat In the US, specifically, a lot of company towns issued scrip instead of cash or allowed workers to charge to an account expenses they could not afford. This may be outlawed but I think this model can be sufficiently masked with technology that it can be implemented and even incentivized for workers to use company money. Further, the company town’s isolation will suggest workers stay inside. Now your whole social circle and standard of life is dictated by someone else’s bottom line.
  - samtho 3y ago
    This is not a persecution complex. As long as you are employed by a company, you are engaging in a business transaction. Once they determine you are no longer worth the expense, they will cut the expense, then your are no longer welcome in Googleville.
    - amrocha 3y ago
      Where's the corporate police? The thought crimes? If the argument is that consolidation of employers and landlords is worrying, then we can have a discussion. If the argument is that the corporate police is gonna kidnap you, then you're just a conspiracy theorist with a victim complex.
      - samtho 3y ago
        I personally never mentioned thought crimes, rather my argument is based on the rather fleeting nature of even full time employment in todays age. The corporation had no loyalty and has no obligation to you beyond what was agreed upon when you got hired. A termination for any reason means your entire life is uprooted. In addition to finding a new employer, you are now looking for housing. That idea of vulnerability is terrifying to a lot of people and will cause further asymmetry in the employee-employer relationship.
        amrocha 3y ago
        The original post was full of conspiracy theories, that's what I'm replying to.
fullspectrumdev 3y ago
Your health insurance being tied to your employer is bad enough, now they want to tie housing to it? Will there be the Company Store too? Really sounds like going back to the bad old days
- rektide 3y ago
  Yes, the US healthcare profiteer-capitalism is fucked. But it's not employers fault. I have no idea what the housing model proposed is. But everywhere else in the US that is mildly popular is ragingly expensive. If I can live in a great place affordably while making a solid paycheck for the future, that doesn't feel like a trap, that feels like a development course. Even if it doesn't last. The meanest thing we can say here is that the rest of the country can't compete, which again isn't the fault of those entities trying to make better. Will there be a company store? I dunno. Is this a worthwhile dig or a trope, a regurgitation of past historic circumstance? We just spent a while talking about how companies will be desperate to lock employees in, golden handcuff them into never leaving... But now suddenly it's dark Zuckville & he's also nickel & dime scrooging over the employees? This no longer sounds like a viable Destination Company... Will it be both too utopian and too dystopian all at once? Or is there one side of too much you'd wager for? I absolutely think this could be shit & terrible. But this is a vacuous shitty useless historically-based drag that, but to me, fails any real analysis of the current situation, ignores the possibilities at hand, and just seeks to disabuse.

akomtu 3y ago

In those wonderful towns, residents not only get fired for wrongthink, they also get evicted by the corporate police. The omnipresent cctv cameras help residents stay in line with the community standards of inclusive speech and behavior.

amrocha 3y ago
Why do you have a persecution complex?
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  Because they don't live in China
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  I don't know if GP has any examples to back up the claim, but it does seem plausible to me. I.e., if: (1) living in the company town is contingent on being an employee, (2) being accused of politically incorrect speech can end one's employment, and (3) eviction is ultimately backed by state-sanctioned violence, then I can see the logic. I'm just not aware of any examples of this actually happening. OTOH, I have no idea if the plans for those company towns involved behavior standards for conduct in the residential areas, outside of working hours. The overall setup sounds really dystopian, so hopefully this is the last we'll ever think about it.
  - amrocha 3y ago
    >I'm just not aware of any examples if this actually happening That's the point. Google by and large treats its employees really well. There's no reason to think it would push this dystopian version of employee housing, instead of something a lot more tame. The only explanation I can think of is that some people just like thinking of themselves as the little guy against the world.
    - samtho 3y ago
      It’s the consolation of power that is concerning. The idea that one single institution that is accountable to nobody but it’s shareholders can dictate where you live, eat, who your friends are, and where your family is. Many very-bad, dictatorship-type regimes have come into power with immense public support - a public that thought they would continue to be treated well.
      - rektide 3y ago
        On the other hand, the rest of the world being exploiting wolves of capitalism fucking over everyone, obstructing most everyone trying to get started & make their way seems to be the actual evil here. I agree there's potentials for the company to grow mean & sour, to exploit the position of granter of a reasonably good life. Ideally a good life should also be available by other means. What really is damned in this condemnation is the rest of the world, which lacks in offerances & alternatives. The idea is that this is a destination company. Your whole premise is that people get exploited. Maybe over time that's true, but you will never create a destination company by being a shitty fuck.
      - amrocha 3y ago
        I don't know why you're going to such lengths to defend someone who claimed they would be arrested by the corporate cops for thought crime. Over Google building some employee housing close to their office.
  - samtho 3y ago
    There are a few examples in history and it never really works out long term: Pullman is notable for its wage cuts of workers (while still charging the same for everything in the town they owned) which caused a major strike that got ugly: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Company#Company_town https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Company#Company_town Pripyat, in Soviet-Ukraine, a “nuclear town” was established and subsequently evacuated when the infamous meltdown occurred: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pripyat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pripyat In the US, specifically, a lot of company towns issued scrip instead of cash or allowed workers to charge to an account expenses they could not afford. This may be outlawed but I think this model can be sufficiently masked with technology that it can be implemented and even incentivized for workers to use company money. Further, the company town’s isolation will suggest workers stay inside. Now your whole social circle and standard of life is dictated by someone else’s bottom line.
- samtho 3y ago
  This is not a persecution complex. As long as you are employed by a company, you are engaging in a business transaction. Once they determine you are no longer worth the expense, they will cut the expense, then your are no longer welcome in Googleville.
  - amrocha 3y ago
    Where's the corporate police? The thought crimes? If the argument is that consolidation of employers and landlords is worrying, then we can have a discussion. If the argument is that the corporate police is gonna kidnap you, then you're just a conspiracy theorist with a victim complex.
    - samtho 3y ago
      I personally never mentioned thought crimes, rather my argument is based on the rather fleeting nature of even full time employment in todays age. The corporation had no loyalty and has no obligation to you beyond what was agreed upon when you got hired. A termination for any reason means your entire life is uprooted. In addition to finding a new employer, you are now looking for housing. That idea of vulnerability is terrifying to a lot of people and will cause further asymmetry in the employee-employer relationship.
      - amrocha 3y ago
        The original post was full of conspiracy theories, that's what I'm replying to.

fullspectrumdev 3y ago

Your health insurance being tied to your employer is bad enough, now they want to tie housing to it? Will there be the Company Store too? Really sounds like going back to the bad old days

rektide 3y ago
Yes, the US healthcare profiteer-capitalism is fucked. But it's not employers fault. I have no idea what the housing model proposed is. But everywhere else in the US that is mildly popular is ragingly expensive. If I can live in a great place affordably while making a solid paycheck for the future, that doesn't feel like a trap, that feels like a development course. Even if it doesn't last. The meanest thing we can say here is that the rest of the country can't compete, which again isn't the fault of those entities trying to make better. Will there be a company store? I dunno. Is this a worthwhile dig or a trope, a regurgitation of past historic circumstance? We just spent a while talking about how companies will be desperate to lock employees in, golden handcuff them into never leaving... But now suddenly it's dark Zuckville & he's also nickel & dime scrooging over the employees? This no longer sounds like a viable Destination Company... Will it be both too utopian and too dystopian all at once? Or is there one side of too much you'd wager for? I absolutely think this could be shit & terrible. But this is a vacuous shitty useless historically-based drag that, but to me, fails any real analysis of the current situation, ignores the possibilities at hand, and just seeks to disabuse.