5 ms·

As far as the thread goes, the author sounds as though they are a child throwing a tantrum. In the original OpenGL thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=

As far as the thread goes, the author sounds as though they are a child throwing a tantrum. In the original OpenGL thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36212674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36212674 there seems to be some discussion as to why the author hates HN, i.e. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36229753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36229753 quoted here: > It's not really all that much of a moral conundrum. Marcan's belief - expressed a number of times on his Mastodon - appears to be that he can prevent other people from discussing something, for the sole reason he doesn't want it discussed. It's not a particularly defensible position in an open society. > In particular, he is upset that people on Hacker News tend to point out that a contributor on Asahi - Lina - appears to be a computer-generated anime alter ego of Marcan himself. > Me, I have absolutely no problem with Marcan having an anime alter ego, but I don't think it's entirely reasonable to expect people to refrain from noticing this and remarking on it. Marcan disagrees, and this is the source of the HN-Marcan rift.

anaganisk 3y ago
You can't just claim that without knowing the context. Also I think, if some website doesn't want you to link to it, and politely redirects you. You shouldn't deploy code evade referrer for that site particularly. C'mon we aren't talking about using a VPN to evade a region block, it's one website abusing their referrer tags against another.
- josephcsible 3y ago
  > Also I think, if some website doesn't want you to link to it, and politely redirects you. You shouldn't deploy code evade referrer for that site particularly. Why? You don't have a right to not be talked about.
  - anaganisk 3y ago
    When did I ever say that, HN is free to talk about them, but they don't want you to visit them. And I think it's up to them to choose with whom they want to interact.
- rascul 3y ago
  > and politely redirects you. I never got the redirect here but from what I understand about it, it is absolutely not polite in my opinion to redirect from an Asahi Linux blog to Google because I happened to find the blog post on Hacker News. In fact, it's quite rude.
  - anaganisk 3y ago
    If someone doesn't want you to come into their house, even if you found the address through a friend it's not rude. They neither are scolding you nor berating you like certain websites that are linked from HN. They just redirect you to Google, from where you can still visit the site. They don't want direct links, that's it.
    - rascul 3y ago
      I don't buy the website equals house analogy. But if I did, redirecting to Google is like sending me to the landfill instead of locking the door and putting up a sign.
      - anaganisk 3y ago
        Sending to Google is, asking you to go back to the road most info is accessed from Google, it's not a landfill, they're not sending you to some random troll website hosted on tor. They don't want interactions with HN plain and simple. It's up to them to choose how or on what parameters to deny your access, at least they did their part gracefully. But adding explicit evasion techniques for a particular site, is not at all graceful. HN is a discussion forum, not an archive or search engine or content repository, it seems funny for it to add explicit techniques to allow its users to evade restrictions.
        rascul 3y ago
        > They don't want interactions with HN plain and simple. Fine. So put up a page saying that. Don't instead send me to some privacy invasive and user hostile third party such as Google.
- jpambrun 3y ago
  You have no business being on the internet if you don't want to be linked to. I can't believe I have to type this out..
  - ubermonkey 3y ago
    What you CAN do and what you SHOULD do are often different things, and that difference is something that the HN crowd would do well to reflect on. Asahi doesn't want attention from HN. It's a small project about hardware that most HN commenters seem to hold in contempt anyway. Why not just honor the request?
    - analognoise 3y ago
      Contempt? I've seen nothing but praise about the Asahi from HN. Its also the only place I've ever heard people talk about it.
      - ubermonkey 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - anaganisk 3y ago
    Cool let's shutdown all the filters for spam, adblockers etc
_cenw 3y ago
> > In particular, he is upset that people on Hacker News tend to point out that a contributor on Asahi - Lina - appears to be a computer-generated anime alter ego of Marcan himself. Is that just gospel on HN now? I have seen zero proof for this accusation, it reeks of the same kind of thinking that some people had when they claimed a person who had died from suicide after relentless bullying must actually be alive because they allegedly have the same writing style as a person in marcan's chat. But, you know, maybe all of Asahi is just Marcan. Can't wait for the Kiwifarmers throwaway to tell me how this is not actually a conspiracy and totally real and... just please don't. You are the reason Marcan wants nothing to do with this site.
Run_DOS_Run 3y ago
>anime alter ego I find that quite funny that he has an anime character as a second identity. If he wants, let him have it, but that he wants to ban any discussion and suppress any dissenting opinion as his own (for example, by declaring it as hate) shows a completely totalitarian worldview.
gettodachoppa 3y ago
[flagged]
- howinteresting 3y ago
  HN is absolutely not doing close to enough to chase away racists, bigots and transphobes. I've had minorities confide in me that they feel unable to participate on HN, one of the most influential sites in our industry, because of the level of bigotry tolerated here. This is one of the many ways in which inequality in our field perpetuates. This is not good! There are many things Dan could do to make this place more welcoming, from simple things like marking June as pride month/February as Black history month (as many tech communities already do) to loudly banning and making an example out of bigots, making it clear that transphobia, racism and anti-immigrant sentiment (including the open anti-H1B racism so prevalent here) won't be tolerated. Everyone makes their own decisions, but it is completely reasonable for sites to boycott HN and reject its traffic until this is addressed.
  - revelio 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - howinteresting 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - arp242 3y ago
    Do you have specific examples of content that you believe should be removed but is not? I'm asking because it's really hard to have a meaningful constructive conversation about these sort of topics without concrete examples, IMHO. I could respond with some generic comments, but they may not apply at all to the examples you have in mind. For what it's worth, I wrote a little extension to completely hide posts from certain users (and all subthreads to their posts) that I had negative interactions with; from my perspective these people just don't exist on HN. I usually add people to this list after 2 or 3 profoundly negative encounters, or if one encounter is particularly egregious. I can definitely underscore that HN can be an unfriendly place at times, although in my personal subjective experience I found that the "unpleasantness" is not really isolated to a particular ideology or "side", or even limited to politics (the conversation that made me write this extension in a fit of anger was about devops stuff, after someone was just being a complete ass and I decided I never want to talk to them again). This is really hard to moderate, because usually it's not "you idiot are you mentally deficient?!" type of stuff – that's easy and obvious, but it's usually more low-key: extremely uncharitable interpretations, wildly off-base straw men, spectacularly off-topic tangents about $pet_peeve, aggressive "I am a singularity of pure rationality, intelligence, and genius" attitudes, put-downs like "after 20 years GIMP still not as good as photoshop, ridiculous", boring and annoying "but akshually" pedantry, conspiratorial nonsense, and stuff like that. Everyone can have a bad day – and that's okay – there's a limit to how "bad" your day can reasonably get, IMHO, and if half your days are bad days.... Even as someone who really tries to keep a cool head about things and typically just "steps away from the computer" if things get too heated it has made my HN experience significantly better. Maybe I'm just too sensitive; I don't know. I try to be forgiving of people's faults (being forgiving of them is also part of being kind), but I can't control my emotions, so shrug. > simple things like marking June as pride month/February as Black history month These seem like meaningless token gestures to be honest. And the US-specific black history month seems a bit inappropriate for an international site like HN, IMHO. I'm not opposed to it or anything (other than being US-specific, as there is already enough US-centrism going on).
solarkraft 3y ago
Thanks for explaining it. I don't care whether Lina is or is not a Marcan persona and don't think anyone should (which I try to propagate here). But what a counter-productive reaction. I know it hurts (and that this is easy to say), but I believe that it would be much more effective to explicitly mention it and respectfully ask people to shut up rather than doing ... this. Before they (at worst) casually disrespected him/Lina, now they largely at least mildly dislike them. I don't think much was gained here at all.

anaganisk 3y ago

You can't just claim that without knowing the context. Also I think, if some website doesn't want you to link to it, and politely redirects you. You shouldn't deploy code evade referrer for that site particularly. C'mon we aren't talking about using a VPN to evade a region block, it's one website abusing their referrer tags against another.

josephcsible 3y ago
> Also I think, if some website doesn't want you to link to it, and politely redirects you. You shouldn't deploy code evade referrer for that site particularly. Why? You don't have a right to not be talked about.
- anaganisk 3y ago
  When did I ever say that, HN is free to talk about them, but they don't want you to visit them. And I think it's up to them to choose with whom they want to interact.
rascul 3y ago
> and politely redirects you. I never got the redirect here but from what I understand about it, it is absolutely not polite in my opinion to redirect from an Asahi Linux blog to Google because I happened to find the blog post on Hacker News. In fact, it's quite rude.
- anaganisk 3y ago
  If someone doesn't want you to come into their house, even if you found the address through a friend it's not rude. They neither are scolding you nor berating you like certain websites that are linked from HN. They just redirect you to Google, from where you can still visit the site. They don't want direct links, that's it.
  - rascul 3y ago
    I don't buy the website equals house analogy. But if I did, redirecting to Google is like sending me to the landfill instead of locking the door and putting up a sign.
    - anaganisk 3y ago
      Sending to Google is, asking you to go back to the road most info is accessed from Google, it's not a landfill, they're not sending you to some random troll website hosted on tor. They don't want interactions with HN plain and simple. It's up to them to choose how or on what parameters to deny your access, at least they did their part gracefully. But adding explicit evasion techniques for a particular site, is not at all graceful. HN is a discussion forum, not an archive or search engine or content repository, it seems funny for it to add explicit techniques to allow its users to evade restrictions.
      - rascul 3y ago
        > They don't want interactions with HN plain and simple. Fine. So put up a page saying that. Don't instead send me to some privacy invasive and user hostile third party such as Google.
jpambrun 3y ago
You have no business being on the internet if you don't want to be linked to. I can't believe I have to type this out..
- ubermonkey 3y ago
  What you CAN do and what you SHOULD do are often different things, and that difference is something that the HN crowd would do well to reflect on. Asahi doesn't want attention from HN. It's a small project about hardware that most HN commenters seem to hold in contempt anyway. Why not just honor the request?
  - analognoise 3y ago
    Contempt? I've seen nothing but praise about the Asahi from HN. Its also the only place I've ever heard people talk about it.
    - ubermonkey 3y ago
      [flagged]
- anaganisk 3y ago
  Cool let's shutdown all the filters for spam, adblockers etc

_cenw 3y ago

> > In particular, he is upset that people on Hacker News tend to point out that a contributor on Asahi - Lina - appears to be a computer-generated anime alter ego of Marcan himself. Is that just gospel on HN now? I have seen zero proof for this accusation, it reeks of the same kind of thinking that some people had when they claimed a person who had died from suicide after relentless bullying must actually be alive because they allegedly have the same writing style as a person in marcan's chat. But, you know, maybe all of Asahi is just Marcan. Can't wait for the Kiwifarmers throwaway to tell me how this is not actually a conspiracy and totally real and... just please don't. You are the reason Marcan wants nothing to do with this site.

Run_DOS_Run 3y ago

>anime alter ego I find that quite funny that he has an anime character as a second identity. If he wants, let him have it, but that he wants to ban any discussion and suppress any dissenting opinion as his own (for example, by declaring it as hate) shows a completely totalitarian worldview.

gettodachoppa 3y ago

[flagged]

howinteresting 3y ago
HN is absolutely not doing close to enough to chase away racists, bigots and transphobes. I've had minorities confide in me that they feel unable to participate on HN, one of the most influential sites in our industry, because of the level of bigotry tolerated here. This is one of the many ways in which inequality in our field perpetuates. This is not good! There are many things Dan could do to make this place more welcoming, from simple things like marking June as pride month/February as Black history month (as many tech communities already do) to loudly banning and making an example out of bigots, making it clear that transphobia, racism and anti-immigrant sentiment (including the open anti-H1B racism so prevalent here) won't be tolerated. Everyone makes their own decisions, but it is completely reasonable for sites to boycott HN and reject its traffic until this is addressed.
- revelio 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - howinteresting 3y ago
    [flagged]
- arp242 3y ago
  Do you have specific examples of content that you believe should be removed but is not? I'm asking because it's really hard to have a meaningful constructive conversation about these sort of topics without concrete examples, IMHO. I could respond with some generic comments, but they may not apply at all to the examples you have in mind. For what it's worth, I wrote a little extension to completely hide posts from certain users (and all subthreads to their posts) that I had negative interactions with; from my perspective these people just don't exist on HN. I usually add people to this list after 2 or 3 profoundly negative encounters, or if one encounter is particularly egregious. I can definitely underscore that HN can be an unfriendly place at times, although in my personal subjective experience I found that the "unpleasantness" is not really isolated to a particular ideology or "side", or even limited to politics (the conversation that made me write this extension in a fit of anger was about devops stuff, after someone was just being a complete ass and I decided I never want to talk to them again). This is really hard to moderate, because usually it's not "you idiot are you mentally deficient?!" type of stuff – that's easy and obvious, but it's usually more low-key: extremely uncharitable interpretations, wildly off-base straw men, spectacularly off-topic tangents about $pet_peeve, aggressive "I am a singularity of pure rationality, intelligence, and genius" attitudes, put-downs like "after 20 years GIMP still not as good as photoshop, ridiculous", boring and annoying "but akshually" pedantry, conspiratorial nonsense, and stuff like that. Everyone can have a bad day – and that's okay – there's a limit to how "bad" your day can reasonably get, IMHO, and if half your days are bad days.... Even as someone who really tries to keep a cool head about things and typically just "steps away from the computer" if things get too heated it has made my HN experience significantly better. Maybe I'm just too sensitive; I don't know. I try to be forgiving of people's faults (being forgiving of them is also part of being kind), but I can't control my emotions, so shrug. > simple things like marking June as pride month/February as Black history month These seem like meaningless token gestures to be honest. And the US-specific black history month seems a bit inappropriate for an international site like HN, IMHO. I'm not opposed to it or anything (other than being US-specific, as there is already enough US-centrism going on).

solarkraft 3y ago

Thanks for explaining it. I don't care whether Lina is or is not a Marcan persona and don't think anyone should (which I try to propagate here). But what a counter-productive reaction. I know it hurts (and that this is easy to say), but I believe that it would be much more effective to explicitly mention it and respectfully ask people to shut up rather than doing ... this. Before they (at worst) casually disrespected him/Lina, now they largely at least mildly dislike them. I don't think much was gained here at all.