10 ms·

As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can

As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy, dvorak might be something to consider. Overall, I've been using dvorak for >10 years and I like it. Going back to Qwerty is like going back to sleeping on a twin mattress. It gets the job done, but once you've become accustomed to sleeping on a queen, it's hard to justify going back to a twin.

TylerE 3y ago
The issue I have with Dvorak is that it pushes many common programmer keys, like [], <>, and ; waaaay out to very unergonomic locations.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  ,.<> are slightly more convenient than on Qwerty, ;: is obviously worse but hardly "way out" (it's where Z is on Qwerty). []{} are indeed further out, but instead we have -_=+ closer. Once we add in all the English I type, file-names, U_R_L?s, --command --flags, /directories/, I think, if anything, the rearrangement is an advantage.
Apofis 3y ago
Using QUERTY after colemak is like being retarded, so after trying alternate keyboard layouts for a while, I'm just doing a hardpass on anything not QUERTY until we get rid of keyboards entirely.
moi2388 3y ago
I just don’t understand that metric or why Dvorak people keep using it. Yes my fingers might travel less, but do we know that moving your hands less leads to a reduction in pain and injury? I’d argue having them constantly in the same position might also do that. And what about comfort? My index finger is stronger than my pinky; id much rather move further with my index finger than my pinky..
daniel-cussen 3y ago
[dead]
darrylb42 3y ago
Are you able to have all your normal keyboards as dvorak? I have thought about trying to switch. But I use a few different keyboards in my day and it would be a real problem for other people if the keycaps didn't match what was on the keyboard. I also think my fingers would get confused about what letter is where when switching.
- tetris11 3y ago
  Not a Dvorak user, but I type on different language keypads a lot, both physically and on software keyboards. Your fingers get used to it within a few weeks and after a few years your brain doesn't even register the difference.
  - Rediscover 3y ago
    > ...different language keypads... I found out while travelling, around 20 years ago, my (then current) SO would get frustrated with the keyboards in different languages (all over the EU). She gave up even trying to use a different keyboard and started asking me to type for her (it sucks, her being restrained like that). I also found out that it takes me <60s to pick up the new layouts on those physical keyboards (again, European variants) Regardless of the layout, she is always faster than me on virtual keyboards.
- rtkwe 3y ago
  Get good enough touch typing dvorak you don't need to seethe keys so typing on a qwerty keyboard isn't an issue. These days it's not the letters I ever have to personally look at the keys for but the random symbols I don't use often enough to have memorized. Sadly some of those move around too.
  - taeric 3y ago
    As a colemak user, I have the same flow. I used to have a keyboard that had blank keycaps, but that isn't kind to the rest of the family that uses the computer. :D Numbers, amusingly, can mess me up.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jerf 3y ago
Probably the best thing about Dvorak (and similar layouts) is that if you want to do proper touch typing, it is quite possibly easier to learn Dvorak than to learn how to touch type QWERTY. Touch typing QWERTY is a constant uphill battle of using your willpower to force yourself to type correctly, despite the rest of your brain claiming it isn't the optimal way to type on that layout. I don't know that your brain is right, but I don't know that it is wrong either. When you learn Dvorak or any other similar thing, you don't have to "learn" how to touch type. You just do it, because it's optimal already. You have to learn the layout, obviously, but once having done that you couldn't hardly fail to learn touch typing and "proper" typing technique if you tried. The same uphill gradient you're fighting when trying to learn "proper" typing technique with QWERTY is now a downhill gradient. I'd actually recommend learning Dvorak over trying to force yourself to touch-type QWERTY properly. Of course, if you don't care about that, no big deal. I'm not sure how valuable that is as a goal on its own, and it's plainly obvious many people function as highly effective office workers of all sorts, programmers and otherwise, without learning to touch type.
- kloch 3y ago
  > QWERTY users naturally wander around and have their hands leave the home row and I'm not entirely convinced it's actually wrong. I think you are learning it wrong. It's not hard at all to learn QWERTY with the proper training technique. I took touch typing in High School, back in the 1980's. Even back then I knew I was going to be doing a lot of work with computers so it made sense to take it. It turned out to be the most useful class I ever took in school by a wide margin since I've used that skill all day every day for 35 years. It was a loooong time ago but I remember it started with lots of simple repetition. We were all using IBM selectrics and the instructor would call out "J-J-J Space, K-K-K Space, L-L-L space, sem sem sem space" etc. in a pattern around the keyboard while and we were told to avoid looking at the keyboard at all times. Eventually we would start copying simple and then longer, more complicated text, again without ever looking at the keyboard.
  - Xorakios 3y ago
    Alas, I learned to type as a kid in the 60's I still avoid looking at the keyboard because in my head i can't find the keys, but my fingers know where to go. :)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
6510 3y ago
I did the same kind of code heatmap (only for querty) but never made a good implementation that accounts for autocomplete. The symbol characters are already much more heavily used than the abc but the real numbers are probably much worse.
citrin_ru 3y ago
> output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think It's hard to think while typing so the less time I spend typing the more time I have for thinking. Having said that I'm a qwerty user - it took me a lot of time (may be 100 hours) to learn touch typing and I don't have time to repeat the same with dvorak.
- SftwrSvior81 3y ago
  Same here, I learned how to touch type years before I heard about Dvorak and found it very difficult to switch so I'm still using qwerty.
- nottorp 3y ago
  Hmm I never consciously learned to touch type, just got into it in time. Not being an actual practiced touch typist, I use like 3 fingers on each hand on average. Last time I took a speed test i could do like 50-60 wpm. Thing is, this speed is more than enough for a developer. What do you write? Code and some communication with your co workers. In both cases you need to think about it, except the rare cases where you churn out yet another for loop.
  - Aloha 3y ago
    I dont touch type in a proper way most of the time I'm typing with little more than three fingers plus a thumb (two fingers plus a thumb on my dominant hand, and one finger on my non-dominant), but I still manage about 80 WPM on a QWERTY keyboard without looking at the keyboard. When I switch to a full size Model M type, I do use more digits, but not alot more.
kqr 3y ago
Same experience for me with Colemak. My wife at one point got curious enough to try typing a few sentences on my machine (with me reading out which finger to move how to get the right letters) and even she had to admit it felt very relaxing compared to what she's used to. (But not enough that she's willing to relearn...)
fareesh 3y ago
I type between 80-120 wpm with reasonable accuracy on qwerty and I feel super slow compared to the pace of thinking. It's a constant source of stress. I'm only ever comfortable if I force myself to think slower.
- xpe 3y ago
  > It's a constant source of stress. I'm only ever comfortable if I force myself to think slower. I have some questions: 1. From a psychological point of view, have you explored ways of coping with this stress? What are your expectations? Do you know why you have the stress? Is about results? Is it about fluidity / flow / fluency? Something else? 2. This may be obvious, but I want to make sure I ask the question to make it really concrete: is one of your goals to transfer your thinking directly to the computer as quickly as possible? 3. Would you be willing to reframe your goal? Perhaps frame your goals as: "Accomplish my goals efficiently with a sense of flow, without rushing down a suboptimal path." You know some of these proverbs: * "Running faster in the wrong direction won't get you anywhere." * "Better to walk in the right direction than run in the wrong one." * "Haste makes waste." * "A fool at high speed is still a fool." * "Don't mistake activity for achievement." * "When you're headed in the wrong direction, progress means turning around." 4. It may be useful to think slower! This might help you let go of framing it as "forcing myself to think slower". A. Maybe you would feel better if you could reframe this process as not simply thinking slower but also allocating some of your mental processing to summarization and translation and other valuable processing? B. No knock against your brain, but how do you actually measure your thinking speed and error rate? C. There are a lot of counterintuitive things happening in the brain when you dig into the neuroscience. Many experiments show that our conscious awareness lags our actual decision-making. Perhaps this can "problematize" your situation and make it interesting, rather than purely stressful. Thinking and typing may not be happening the way you think they are D. I'd expect for you, a good typist, your brain fires motor control circuits to cause your fingers to type before you are consciously aware of it, if you are aware at all. Ever notice how switching keyboards increases your awareness? This seems to suggest that one's low-level typing awareness (i.e. how keys feel) dulls over time when using one particular keyboard. E. I have not read this yet, but it seems relevant: "Hierarchical control of cognitive processes: The case for skilled typewriting." by Logan and Crump, 2011. https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-04906-001 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-04906-001 5. What technologies and/or methods have you considered? 6. Are you familiar with a steno machine (aka stenotype machine / shorthand machine / stenograph)? Might it work for you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype 7. Have you discussed this with others with similar goals? Have you read "Quest for a fully deterministic keyboard shorthand system" https://www.reddit.com/r/shorthand/comments/3ul9y3 https://www.reddit.com/r/shorthand/comments/3ul9y3
retrac 3y ago
> how fast we can think [...] an analysis of one of our code bases Well, with coding that's certainly true. I can spend all day trying to come up with a dozen lines of code. Input speed is not the barrier there. But for writing English prose, at around 90 wpm, my fingers are often lagging behind what I want to say. People can reach short bursts when speaking as fast as 300 wpm. When I get such bursts of thought, it can be hard to hold on to the end of it while I'm still typing the beginning.
- notagoodidea 3y ago
  You want to be able to follow speaking pace? Learn steno, it is made for that. https://www.openstenoproject.org/plover/ https://www.openstenoproject.org/plover/
nashashmi 3y ago
How did you solve the Shortcuts problem? I really gave Dvorak a good shot, but it completely failed when I was using auto cad CAD.
- danzk 3y ago
  I use a gaming mouse and assign common shortcuts to the extra buttons. One nice advantage of mac os is the built-in Dvorak-Qwerty layout which retains Qwerty shortcuts. You need an AHK script to achieve the same result on Windows.
pmarreck 3y ago
What about Colemak? Also, as a gamer, I'm concerned about keyboard mappings in games if I switch from Qwerty- I heard bad things, although games really should have switched from a key encoding mapping to a key location mapping a long time ago.
- EduardoBautista 3y ago
  Some games do use key location. Factorio, for example, uses key location. It's really hit or miss. I am not sure what determines whether they use key location or not. Edit: Basically, the key mappings would automatically change WASD to WARS for Colemak.
cge 3y ago
When I started using Dvorak, it was because I found that I could make my typing significantly quieter with Dvorak than with QWERTY, likely because of the reduced movement. As an undergraduate at a time when almost no one else had started typing notes in class, I found that there was a substantial reduction in how noticeable my typing was to others when I switched to Dvorak.
jxramos 3y ago
Another angle is comfort and ergonomics. Less stress and strain on the wrists and fingers using less contortions to get where you need to go.
fsckboy 3y ago
> analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character if your code base is C, is dvorak going to help with all the [^A-Za-z]* punctuation characters? That's what slows me down.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  These characters/keys are in better positions on Dvorak: '" ,< .> -_ += These are in worse positions: [{ ]} ;: /? And this doesn't move: \| `~ and the punctuation over the numbers. []{} is significantly worse, equally -_=+ is significantly better, as these keys are swapped. Making an effort to learn and touch-type these keys is pretty similar on either layout. It's just a matter of learning it. If you really want to, you can customize a keyboard layout on any OS and arrange these keys how you see fit, but then you lose any compatibility advantage of sticking with plain Dvorak.
- api_or_ipa 3y ago
  I use the programmer variant of dvorak. The number keys are 'swapped' with symbols, so you press shift to access numbers. Given that most programmers (should) use symbols more often than numbers, this is highly convenient. Strongly recommend checking it out. For the record, I mostly use python nowadays but it's still a big improvement over mashing shift all day.
FullyFunctional 3y ago
I came to say this. It's not speed, it's comfort. I've been using Dvorak on my Kinesis Advantage since mid 90'es [1]. I don't actually think Dvorak is the best possible layout, but as the video points out, we are already in the realm of diminishing returns. [1] I still use Qwerty on non-Kinesis keyboards and this fact is enough for my muscle memory to eliminate any mental overhead of switching.
- erichocean 3y ago
  Long-time Dvorak user, and I 100% agree with this. Dvorak is much less taxing on your body.
ipqk 3y ago
I moved to dvorak to help with my RSI. I don't know if it actually helped (it's been decades since I used QWERTY on a keyboard for more than a minute), but typing speed was irrelevant to me.
JohnFen 3y ago
I've long fantasized about switching to Dvorak just to confuse people who want to use my computer.
noveltyaccount 3y ago
I switched to Colemak a long time ago (from qwerty) and it helped with the RSI issues I was having. Definitely more ergonomic.

TylerE 3y ago

The issue I have with Dvorak is that it pushes many common programmer keys, like [], <>, and ; waaaay out to very unergonomic locations.

Symbiote 3y ago
,.<> are slightly more convenient than on Qwerty, ;: is obviously worse but hardly "way out" (it's where Z is on Qwerty). []{} are indeed further out, but instead we have -_=+ closer. Once we add in all the English I type, file-names, U_R_L?s, --command --flags, /directories/, I think, if anything, the rearrangement is an advantage.

Apofis 3y ago

Using QUERTY after colemak is like being retarded, so after trying alternate keyboard layouts for a while, I'm just doing a hardpass on anything not QUERTY until we get rid of keyboards entirely.

moi2388 3y ago

I just don’t understand that metric or why Dvorak people keep using it. Yes my fingers might travel less, but do we know that moving your hands less leads to a reduction in pain and injury? I’d argue having them constantly in the same position might also do that. And what about comfort? My index finger is stronger than my pinky; id much rather move further with my index finger than my pinky..

daniel-cussen 3y ago

[dead]

darrylb42 3y ago

Are you able to have all your normal keyboards as dvorak? I have thought about trying to switch. But I use a few different keyboards in my day and it would be a real problem for other people if the keycaps didn't match what was on the keyboard. I also think my fingers would get confused about what letter is where when switching.

tetris11 3y ago
Not a Dvorak user, but I type on different language keypads a lot, both physically and on software keyboards. Your fingers get used to it within a few weeks and after a few years your brain doesn't even register the difference.
- Rediscover 3y ago
  > ...different language keypads... I found out while travelling, around 20 years ago, my (then current) SO would get frustrated with the keyboards in different languages (all over the EU). She gave up even trying to use a different keyboard and started asking me to type for her (it sucks, her being restrained like that). I also found out that it takes me <60s to pick up the new layouts on those physical keyboards (again, European variants) Regardless of the layout, she is always faster than me on virtual keyboards.
rtkwe 3y ago
Get good enough touch typing dvorak you don't need to seethe keys so typing on a qwerty keyboard isn't an issue. These days it's not the letters I ever have to personally look at the keys for but the random symbols I don't use often enough to have memorized. Sadly some of those move around too.
- taeric 3y ago
  As a colemak user, I have the same flow. I used to have a keyboard that had blank keycaps, but that isn't kind to the rest of the family that uses the computer. :D Numbers, amusingly, can mess me up.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jerf 3y ago

Probably the best thing about Dvorak (and similar layouts) is that if you want to do proper touch typing, it is quite possibly easier to learn Dvorak than to learn how to touch type QWERTY. Touch typing QWERTY is a constant uphill battle of using your willpower to force yourself to type correctly, despite the rest of your brain claiming it isn't the optimal way to type on that layout. I don't know that your brain is right, but I don't know that it is wrong either. When you learn Dvorak or any other similar thing, you don't have to "learn" how to touch type. You just do it, because it's optimal already. You have to learn the layout, obviously, but once having done that you couldn't hardly fail to learn touch typing and "proper" typing technique if you tried. The same uphill gradient you're fighting when trying to learn "proper" typing technique with QWERTY is now a downhill gradient. I'd actually recommend learning Dvorak over trying to force yourself to touch-type QWERTY properly. Of course, if you don't care about that, no big deal. I'm not sure how valuable that is as a goal on its own, and it's plainly obvious many people function as highly effective office workers of all sorts, programmers and otherwise, without learning to touch type.

kloch 3y ago
> QWERTY users naturally wander around and have their hands leave the home row and I'm not entirely convinced it's actually wrong. I think you are learning it wrong. It's not hard at all to learn QWERTY with the proper training technique. I took touch typing in High School, back in the 1980's. Even back then I knew I was going to be doing a lot of work with computers so it made sense to take it. It turned out to be the most useful class I ever took in school by a wide margin since I've used that skill all day every day for 35 years. It was a loooong time ago but I remember it started with lots of simple repetition. We were all using IBM selectrics and the instructor would call out "J-J-J Space, K-K-K Space, L-L-L space, sem sem sem space" etc. in a pattern around the keyboard while and we were told to avoid looking at the keyboard at all times. Eventually we would start copying simple and then longer, more complicated text, again without ever looking at the keyboard.
- Xorakios 3y ago
  Alas, I learned to type as a kid in the 60's I still avoid looking at the keyboard because in my head i can't find the keys, but my fingers know where to go. :)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

6510 3y ago

I did the same kind of code heatmap (only for querty) but never made a good implementation that accounts for autocomplete. The symbol characters are already much more heavily used than the abc but the real numbers are probably much worse.

citrin_ru 3y ago

> output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think It's hard to think while typing so the less time I spend typing the more time I have for thinking. Having said that I'm a qwerty user - it took me a lot of time (may be 100 hours) to learn touch typing and I don't have time to repeat the same with dvorak.

SftwrSvior81 3y ago
Same here, I learned how to touch type years before I heard about Dvorak and found it very difficult to switch so I'm still using qwerty.
nottorp 3y ago
Hmm I never consciously learned to touch type, just got into it in time. Not being an actual practiced touch typist, I use like 3 fingers on each hand on average. Last time I took a speed test i could do like 50-60 wpm. Thing is, this speed is more than enough for a developer. What do you write? Code and some communication with your co workers. In both cases you need to think about it, except the rare cases where you churn out yet another for loop.
- Aloha 3y ago
  I dont touch type in a proper way most of the time I'm typing with little more than three fingers plus a thumb (two fingers plus a thumb on my dominant hand, and one finger on my non-dominant), but I still manage about 80 WPM on a QWERTY keyboard without looking at the keyboard. When I switch to a full size Model M type, I do use more digits, but not alot more.

kqr 3y ago

Same experience for me with Colemak. My wife at one point got curious enough to try typing a few sentences on my machine (with me reading out which finger to move how to get the right letters) and even she had to admit it felt very relaxing compared to what she's used to. (But not enough that she's willing to relearn...)

fareesh 3y ago

I type between 80-120 wpm with reasonable accuracy on qwerty and I feel super slow compared to the pace of thinking. It's a constant source of stress. I'm only ever comfortable if I force myself to think slower.

xpe 3y ago
> It's a constant source of stress. I'm only ever comfortable if I force myself to think slower. I have some questions: 1. From a psychological point of view, have you explored ways of coping with this stress? What are your expectations? Do you know why you have the stress? Is about results? Is it about fluidity / flow / fluency? Something else? 2. This may be obvious, but I want to make sure I ask the question to make it really concrete: is one of your goals to transfer your thinking directly to the computer as quickly as possible? 3. Would you be willing to reframe your goal? Perhaps frame your goals as: "Accomplish my goals efficiently with a sense of flow, without rushing down a suboptimal path." You know some of these proverbs: * "Running faster in the wrong direction won't get you anywhere." * "Better to walk in the right direction than run in the wrong one." * "Haste makes waste." * "A fool at high speed is still a fool." * "Don't mistake activity for achievement." * "When you're headed in the wrong direction, progress means turning around." 4. It may be useful to think slower! This might help you let go of framing it as "forcing myself to think slower". A. Maybe you would feel better if you could reframe this process as not simply thinking slower but also allocating some of your mental processing to summarization and translation and other valuable processing? B. No knock against your brain, but how do you actually measure your thinking speed and error rate? C. There are a lot of counterintuitive things happening in the brain when you dig into the neuroscience. Many experiments show that our conscious awareness lags our actual decision-making. Perhaps this can "problematize" your situation and make it interesting, rather than purely stressful. Thinking and typing may not be happening the way you think they are D. I'd expect for you, a good typist, your brain fires motor control circuits to cause your fingers to type before you are consciously aware of it, if you are aware at all. Ever notice how switching keyboards increases your awareness? This seems to suggest that one's low-level typing awareness (i.e. how keys feel) dulls over time when using one particular keyboard. E. I have not read this yet, but it seems relevant: "Hierarchical control of cognitive processes: The case for skilled typewriting." by Logan and Crump, 2011. https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-04906-001 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2011-04906-001 5. What technologies and/or methods have you considered? 6. Are you familiar with a steno machine (aka stenotype machine / shorthand machine / stenograph)? Might it work for you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype 7. Have you discussed this with others with similar goals? Have you read "Quest for a fully deterministic keyboard shorthand system" https://www.reddit.com/r/shorthand/comments/3ul9y3 https://www.reddit.com/r/shorthand/comments/3ul9y3

retrac 3y ago

> how fast we can think [...] an analysis of one of our code bases Well, with coding that's certainly true. I can spend all day trying to come up with a dozen lines of code. Input speed is not the barrier there. But for writing English prose, at around 90 wpm, my fingers are often lagging behind what I want to say. People can reach short bursts when speaking as fast as 300 wpm. When I get such bursts of thought, it can be hard to hold on to the end of it while I'm still typing the beginning.

notagoodidea 3y ago
You want to be able to follow speaking pace? Learn steno, it is made for that. https://www.openstenoproject.org/plover/ https://www.openstenoproject.org/plover/

nashashmi 3y ago

How did you solve the Shortcuts problem? I really gave Dvorak a good shot, but it completely failed when I was using auto cad CAD.

danzk 3y ago
I use a gaming mouse and assign common shortcuts to the extra buttons. One nice advantage of mac os is the built-in Dvorak-Qwerty layout which retains Qwerty shortcuts. You need an AHK script to achieve the same result on Windows.

pmarreck 3y ago

What about Colemak? Also, as a gamer, I'm concerned about keyboard mappings in games if I switch from Qwerty- I heard bad things, although games really should have switched from a key encoding mapping to a key location mapping a long time ago.

EduardoBautista 3y ago
Some games do use key location. Factorio, for example, uses key location. It's really hit or miss. I am not sure what determines whether they use key location or not. Edit: Basically, the key mappings would automatically change WASD to WARS for Colemak.

cge 3y ago

When I started using Dvorak, it was because I found that I could make my typing significantly quieter with Dvorak than with QWERTY, likely because of the reduced movement. As an undergraduate at a time when almost no one else had started typing notes in class, I found that there was a substantial reduction in how noticeable my typing was to others when I switched to Dvorak.

jxramos 3y ago

Another angle is comfort and ergonomics. Less stress and strain on the wrists and fingers using less contortions to get where you need to go.

fsckboy 3y ago

> analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character if your code base is C, is dvorak going to help with all the [^A-Za-z]* punctuation characters? That's what slows me down.

Symbiote 3y ago
These characters/keys are in better positions on Dvorak: '" ,< .> -_ += These are in worse positions: [{ ]} ;: /? And this doesn't move: \| `~ and the punctuation over the numbers. []{} is significantly worse, equally -_=+ is significantly better, as these keys are swapped. Making an effort to learn and touch-type these keys is pretty similar on either layout. It's just a matter of learning it. If you really want to, you can customize a keyboard layout on any OS and arrange these keys how you see fit, but then you lose any compatibility advantage of sticking with plain Dvorak.
api_or_ipa 3y ago
I use the programmer variant of dvorak. The number keys are 'swapped' with symbols, so you press shift to access numbers. Given that most programmers (should) use symbols more often than numbers, this is highly convenient. Strongly recommend checking it out. For the record, I mostly use python nowadays but it's still a big improvement over mashing shift all day.

FullyFunctional 3y ago

I came to say this. It's not speed, it's comfort. I've been using Dvorak on my Kinesis Advantage since mid 90'es [1]. I don't actually think Dvorak is the best possible layout, but as the video points out, we are already in the realm of diminishing returns. [1] I still use Qwerty on non-Kinesis keyboards and this fact is enough for my muscle memory to eliminate any mental overhead of switching.

erichocean 3y ago
Long-time Dvorak user, and I 100% agree with this. Dvorak is much less taxing on your body.

ipqk 3y ago

I moved to dvorak to help with my RSI. I don't know if it actually helped (it's been decades since I used QWERTY on a keyboard for more than a minute), but typing speed was irrelevant to me.

JohnFen 3y ago

I've long fantasized about switching to Dvorak just to confuse people who want to use my computer.

noveltyaccount 3y ago

I switched to Colemak a long time ago (from qwerty) and it helped with the RSI issues I was having. Definitely more ergonomic.