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Another follow up on Mastodon is about the ban evasion that HN does specifically for Asahi. https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759 https://

by brohee 3y ago

Another follow up on Mastodon is about the ban evasion that HN does specifically for Asahi. https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503050993279759 I find it pretty tasteless for HN to do that.

e40 3y ago
It’s a little hard to understand what is going on. Can you explain? Thanks.
- pyrox 3y ago
  Asahi Linux's site previously redirected any site with the Referer header set to 'news.ycombinator.com' to google.com. They did this because they believe that Hacker News' community fosters a hostile environment, and thus it was blocked. Setting `rel=noreferrer` on an `a` tag means that the browser will not submit this header, thus meaning this sort of redirect will not occur. Also(as per Marcan's Mastodon account), this rel tag has only been added to asahilinux.org links, not any other links on HN. This means that the moderators of HN believe that the commentary that has in the past been quite misinformative should be allowed, and they are deciding to bypass the block that was put in place by the Asahi team. Now, as per https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503331622393719 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503331622393719 , they're adding an HTML header to anyone who has submitted a post to HN(or has the submit page in their history), as they have no other way of doing anything, as they no longer have the Referer header.
  - 101011 3y ago
    This raises interesting moral questions that I'm not sure I have an answer to. For one, I don't believe this place fosters a hostile environment, although it's definitely a place where people love to tell you how you're technically wrong about something. For another, I would guess that there are a very limited number of websites that would opt into this sort of anti-traffic behavior. Hacker news could certainly choose to honor it, but it also feels within their right to bypass the block. I wonder if there's a sort of middle ground, where HN alerts the user of the redirect that would have occurred, but still shoots the user to the desired location. But now you're getting into user flows and begging the question as to why the redirect is there in the first place. I'd love to know more about the perceived hostility, even reading up on Mastodon left me with more questions than answers.
    - sussmannbaka 3y ago
      there is constant transphobia against Asahi contributors on display on this site. Every single article that gets to the frontpage will have dozens of vile posts in the deads and a couple sprinkled inbetween. I’m not sure if HN staff doesn’t care about it, agrees with them or simply isn’t aware. It’s not limited to the Asahi project, either. The site isn’t safe for queer folks.
      - arp242 3y ago
        > vile posts in the deads and a couple sprinkled inbetween. I’m not sure if HN staff doesn’t care about it, agrees with them or simply isn’t aware. So basically you're judging a community by the posts the community and moderators deemed inappropriate and moderated away? Rather curious metric. If you don't want to see dead posts then turn showdead off (which is the default). That you get some transparency in the moderation is a feature, IMHO, but it's also opt-in. Maybe there should be a "verydead" for these kind of outright idiotic posts so they just won't display at all for anyone, but then how do you prevent abuse and keep the mod workload reasonable marking endless posts as "verydead"?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - judge2020 3y ago
        It seems HN's philosophy is like that of (early) Reddit, where the commenters self-govern and down/flag comments like that - and it seems to be working if they're all dead, right? They're hidden unless you have an account and specifically enable showdead.
      - troad 3y ago
        > there is constant transphobia against Asahi contributors on display on this site Could you be so kind as to link me to an example? People have discussed Marcan's anime alter ego, certainly, but I've never seen anything transphobic in the slightest. Maybe it's all flagged before I get to see it, but I honestly can't figure out what you might even be referring to. I enjoy reading Asahi updates when they come up, so I am unsure how I could be missing something so 'constant'. > It’s not limited to the Asahi project, either. The site isn’t safe for queer folks. As a 'queer person' myself, I find that statement utterly ludicrous and I reject it completely.
  - judge2020 3y ago
    Doesn't seem to be applied to older posts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33891197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33891197
ipython 3y ago
Adding noreferer tag is “tasteless”? What’s tasteless is jwz for example silently redirecting visits from this site to goatse. This just reminds me of the clueless businesses in the early days of the web asking for “license agreements” to link to their content.

by brohee 3y ago

e40 3y ago

It’s a little hard to understand what is going on. Can you explain? Thanks.

pyrox 3y ago
Asahi Linux's site previously redirected any site with the Referer header set to 'news.ycombinator.com' to google.com. They did this because they believe that Hacker News' community fosters a hostile environment, and thus it was blocked. Setting `rel=noreferrer` on an `a` tag means that the browser will not submit this header, thus meaning this sort of redirect will not occur. Also(as per Marcan's Mastodon account), this rel tag has only been added to asahilinux.org links, not any other links on HN. This means that the moderators of HN believe that the commentary that has in the past been quite misinformative should be allowed, and they are deciding to bypass the block that was put in place by the Asahi team. Now, as per https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503331622393719 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/110503331622393719 , they're adding an HTML header to anyone who has submitted a post to HN(or has the submit page in their history), as they have no other way of doing anything, as they no longer have the Referer header.
- 101011 3y ago
  This raises interesting moral questions that I'm not sure I have an answer to. For one, I don't believe this place fosters a hostile environment, although it's definitely a place where people love to tell you how you're technically wrong about something. For another, I would guess that there are a very limited number of websites that would opt into this sort of anti-traffic behavior. Hacker news could certainly choose to honor it, but it also feels within their right to bypass the block. I wonder if there's a sort of middle ground, where HN alerts the user of the redirect that would have occurred, but still shoots the user to the desired location. But now you're getting into user flows and begging the question as to why the redirect is there in the first place. I'd love to know more about the perceived hostility, even reading up on Mastodon left me with more questions than answers.
  - sussmannbaka 3y ago
    there is constant transphobia against Asahi contributors on display on this site. Every single article that gets to the frontpage will have dozens of vile posts in the deads and a couple sprinkled inbetween. I’m not sure if HN staff doesn’t care about it, agrees with them or simply isn’t aware. It’s not limited to the Asahi project, either. The site isn’t safe for queer folks.
    - arp242 3y ago
      > vile posts in the deads and a couple sprinkled inbetween. I’m not sure if HN staff doesn’t care about it, agrees with them or simply isn’t aware. So basically you're judging a community by the posts the community and moderators deemed inappropriate and moderated away? Rather curious metric. If you don't want to see dead posts then turn showdead off (which is the default). That you get some transparency in the moderation is a feature, IMHO, but it's also opt-in. Maybe there should be a "verydead" for these kind of outright idiotic posts so they just won't display at all for anyone, but then how do you prevent abuse and keep the mod workload reasonable marking endless posts as "verydead"?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - judge2020 3y ago
      It seems HN's philosophy is like that of (early) Reddit, where the commenters self-govern and down/flag comments like that - and it seems to be working if they're all dead, right? They're hidden unless you have an account and specifically enable showdead.
    - troad 3y ago
      > there is constant transphobia against Asahi contributors on display on this site Could you be so kind as to link me to an example? People have discussed Marcan's anime alter ego, certainly, but I've never seen anything transphobic in the slightest. Maybe it's all flagged before I get to see it, but I honestly can't figure out what you might even be referring to. I enjoy reading Asahi updates when they come up, so I am unsure how I could be missing something so 'constant'. > It’s not limited to the Asahi project, either. The site isn’t safe for queer folks. As a 'queer person' myself, I find that statement utterly ludicrous and I reject it completely.
- judge2020 3y ago
  Doesn't seem to be applied to older posts https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33891197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33891197

ipython 3y ago

Adding noreferer tag is “tasteless”? What’s tasteless is jwz for example silently redirecting visits from this site to goatse. This just reminds me of the clueless businesses in the early days of the web asking for “license agreements” to link to their content.