7 ms·
You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable
by jstanley 3y ago
You're taking a backwards-looking view of this.
Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings".
In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves.
In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the goggles off to isolate yourself.
There are enormous advantages to living (as much as possible of) your life in VR:
- your home can be arbitrarily large at zero cost and without taking any land away from anyone else
- you can change the decor whenever you want at zero cost
- you can paint walls as ornately as you like, at zero cost, immediately, without even any prep work required
- you spend zero time on travelling
- you can instantly hang out with friends in foreign countries for free without even needing a visa
As long as the technology is good enough (and please remember that qualifier, because people normally respond with an implicit assumption that the technology is not good enough) - as long as the technology is good enough VR is strictly better than current reality.
- 5350-uiop-1130 3y agothe mental gymnastics people are using to justify dropping $3500 on this is amazing
- simonh 3y ago>Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". A city is literally millions of people all wanting to live in the same place to be close to other people. I couldn't wait to move from the countryside to a city in order to be near more people like myself. Communications technology is great, it helps me connect with even more people with common interests, as right now, and with my family while we are apart. It is in no way shape or form a substitute for being physically with people. There's something primally satisfying and emotionally anchoring about actually being together. That's why online discussions can so easily escalate into verbal knife fights and abuse. It's emotionally disconnected and I suspect the same will be true of VR.
- siva7 3y agoYou forgot the /s (i hope).
- CPLX 3y ago> people normally respond with an implicit assumption that the technology is not good enough Because it's not good enough and there's no real plausible means by which it will be good enough. I mean this was a core argument in the Matrix, and many agreed that it wasn't worth doing even when the virtual reality was absolutely flawless and a land of limitless bounty. And there's no tech in progress that has a path to that kind of immersive experience. Even if that kind of thing is possible which I have doubts about my great-grand-children will be long dead by the time it shows up. You're not going to hang out with friends in foreign countries for free you're going to be isolated in your house with a piece of plastic on your face.
- mavhc 3y agoWe're hanging out with friends in foreign countries for free right now on this website, many people have friends they only communicate with via text, and some only with voice, and others with video, and others physically
- jdhzzz 3y agoWe'll make cars so cheap only the rich can afford horses. We'll make air travel so cheap, only the rich can afford travel by ship. We'll make AR/VR so compelling only the rich can afford travel.
- DonaldPShimoda 3y agoAsimov kind-of wrote about this phenomenon in 1956's "The Naked Sun", the second of his Elijah Bailey series. I won't give plot spoilers, but the main connection is that a group of people on another planet have grown accustomed to virtual holographic "viewing" being the main mode of interacting with other people, while physically being in their presence is deemed unwholesome, embarrassing, or otherwise uncouth, causing people to go to great extents to avoid it. I don't know that Vision Pro is necessarily taking us on that sort of path; I'll probably hold my judgment until they've proliferated enough that I actually know someone who has one. But your point that the virtual world is becoming where we go to interact with other people while physical spaces are used for individual isolation is a good one, and my contribution here is to tie it to a book that is over 65 years old to show that it's not even a particularly new idea.
- freedrock87 3y agoYour proving his point of the dystopia
- woile 3y agoI wonder what impacts this might have in mental and physical health of people
- DrThunder 3y agoWow..... I have to completely disagree with you and feel quite sorry that's the way you feel about your life. You sound similar to the Japanse Hikikomori men that I read about. 1. People do not really go into nature to "isolate" themselves. As you said, you can do that in your own house. There's a plethora of reason nature is good for. 2. Everything else you're listing as "advantages" are less equivalents of what can be done in real life already. 3. Hanging out with friends virtually is no where near the same emotionally or physically. This has been scientifically proven. You NEED to be talking to people in person and interacting with them. Otherwise, you will be emotionally stunted.
- arbitrary_name 3y agoI hike for days to get to parts of the wilderness that no one else is in. I do not go to nature to hear or see other people. Gp is spot on with that. I'm very normal and sociable and well adjusted. But our relationship with our surroundings and each other is changed due to technology. And will continue to evolve.
- DrThunder 3y agoI meant to say "just to isolate themselves". Yes that's sometimes part of the reason but typically it's not the only reason, as you can isolate yourself inside your own home quite easily. It will evolve into a mess of mental illness and likely the end of our race in my opinion if that's the way we go. We can already see this happening. Less people are reproducing, more people are mentally ill than ever, a lot of people see the human race as a blight on the planet etc. We will not evolve, we'll just die out or be something so far removed from what we are it won't be recognizable. It's obvious that digital communication doesn't meet our emotional and physical needs. Also, did you ever think about the reason why you're "isolating" in nature? It's likely to get away from the modern technical world that's stripping you of something. Sort of ironic in regard to your stance on wholeheartedly accepting every facet of VR into our daily lives.
- sanderjd 3y ago> In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the goggles off to isolate yourself. This sounds deeply shitty.
- omnius19 3y agoWith that framing, I agree. However, I don’t think it needs to be. I’m hoping it’s more that virtual reality is where to go to interact professionally and you’ll take off the goggles for your personal time. If, instead of needing to live in close proximity to work opportunities, often in an expensive and crowded city with a long commute, people could live wherever they want and commute virtually, that would be a huge positive in my book. That is already possible for some professions, such as software development. But good VR/AR will open the door to other professions that still require in person collaboration today and will improve those that are already remote capable. Then, at the end of the day, you take off your headset and live your life wherever/however you choose.
- sanderjd 3y agoYeah I agree that work is by far the most optimistic use case here. Still though, I work remotely, and it kinda sucks, for exactly this same reason. It is certainly a huge advantage to be able to live anywhere and not be tied to any specific location to get work done, but there are huge disadvantages too. I haven't personally figured out what I think the right way to square the circle is, but I think it might be more like the trend toward 2-3 hybrid work weeks rather than total isolated remote. At least for most people.
- jryle70 3y agoWe're already texting far more often than talking, in person or on the phone. Perhaps you're used to that and don't feel strange, but I bet there are people who consider that shitty.
- sanderjd 3y agoYes, that is also strange and shitty. (But actually no, I talk in person a lot more than I text. I have to make an effort to see people that way, but I think it's worth the effort.)
- stcroixx 3y agoWeren’t they trying to sell high priced virtual real estate in the metaverse next to snoop dog? Would decor not be monetized just like skins and items in gaming?
- gherkinnn 3y ago> Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". Forest man is on to something. Can I live in his family’s hovel and keep my antibiotics? Thanks.
- Aerbil313 3y agoChances are you won’t ever need those pills provided that you survive beyond age 5.
- lolinder 3y agoI would argue that the ancient man living in the woods is absolutely right about cities—a person in a concrete jungle is dangerously isolated from reality. We know the negative effects of too little sunlight, we know the positive effects of exposure to nature. We know the negative environmental effects of the infrastructure that makes the concrete jungle possible, but those effects are invisible to the resident of the jungle. Also, it's pretty clear that cities are too large for our social apparatus. The ancient man living in a tribe has a deeper personal connection with his fellow villagers than anything we develop in a city, much less in the worldwide city we call the internet. Given all that, I think it's reasonable to take a backwards-looking approach to this. Evolution happens on the time scale of millennia, and our biology has had only had a few hundred years to adjust to the modern city. Rushing headlong along the same path into full, always-connected VR is hazardous.
- dointheatl 3y ago> Also, it's pretty clear that cities are too large for our social apparatus Citation needed? Humans have been living in cities for thousands of years.
- portpecos 3y agoAt an extraordinary cost to human health. Sewage problems spread disease. Malnourishment due to only eating bread. The average height of a Paleolithic man far exceeded the height of a Neolithic man.
- astrange 3y agoThis is Berkson's paradox - Neolithic men may have been less healthy, but that could be because the hunter-gatherers died or stopped having children when they ran out of food rather than living off bread.
- Aerbil313 3y agoCities of the past are nothing like those of today. Nor the lifestyle of them.
- johncalvinyoung 3y agoIf this is the future I do not want to live in it. No VR is ever going to match the actual experience of travelling to a place unlike any you've ever been. No emulated persona is ever going to match looking into a loved one's eyes. I can see the benefits of AR/VR for productivity or for niche consumption, but it could be 'strictly better than current reality' only with the narrowest of cherrypicked definitions. No thanks.
- Aerbil313 3y agoWait until neuralink becomes a real thing. Do I want it? Of course not.
- eric_cc 3y agoWhile I agree with your sentiment, if VR becomes a 99.999999999% match it’ll change human existence whether we personally like it or not.
- mewpmewp2 3y agoIn the future I'm sure there will be ways to manipulate/drug your nerves, emotions, to want to live in that World and enjoy it.
- alexvoda 3y agoWHYYYY? You are approaching the territory of describing enslavement in your description.
- funkykong 3y agoI can't tell if you're trolling or not...
- lern_too_spel 3y agoNo, this idea was stupid when Zuckerberg promoted it, and it's still stupid with Cook promoting it. VR goggles are a dead end. Invisible VR or AR has lots of applications, but the technology is years away.
- jorisg 3y agoYour comment is such a great bait :D As much as things could be really cool in VR, the simplest argument here is that as a human you can do much more than just look at things and listen to things...
- alexvoda 3y ago> There are enormous advantages to living (as much as possible of) your life in VR: > - your home can be arbitrarily large at zero cost and without taking any land away from anyone else Except it isn't. > - you can change the decor whenever you want at zero cost Except you can't. > - you can paint walls as ornately as you like, at zero cost, immediately, without even any prep work required Except you can't. > - you spend zero time on travelling Except you don't. > - you can instantly hang out with friends in foreign countries for free without even needing a visa Except you don't. This is an incredibly dystopian view. Let's not kid ourselves that VR will not be monetized to the breaking point just like any other platform. Enshitification is inevitable. In other words, corporations will do what they already do, sell lies, create demand for those lies and in exchange demand more of the irreplaceable things like time, land and resources.
- mewpmewp2 3y agoYou are not looking far enough ahead. In the future people will be in their pods, only connected within virtual reality and everything will feel as if it was real. This allows for much more optimal space and resources management.
- lolinder 3y agoEither you left off the "/s" or you're missing their point. Who will be doing the space and resource management? This is not a future where individual consumers have control. This is a future where corporations give consumers enough of an illusion of control that they don't notice how much they've actually given up.
- ddalex 3y ago> Who will be doing the space and resource management? AI, obviously, they are far better and meticulous planners then humans. AI will evolve to maximise shareholder value at all costs.
- alexvoda 3y agoThere is no guaranteed path for the future. Humanity makes the future it will live in. So I am just looking ahead in a different direction from you. I find it hard to not throw a plethora of insults at you for the vision you endorsed. The Matrix was not an instruction manual, it was a warning. Why do you want that to be the future?
- OOPMan 3y agoAs long as the technology is good enough...but it's not, so quit shilling
- esafak 3y agoYou omitted my favorite use case: reducing commuting and business travel.