5 ms·

Maybe there is something to do about workers owning their own means of production.

dontlaugh 3y ago
All road lead to revolution, but it takes time to build. Until then, some sabotage may be in order.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
[always has been.jpg] Seriously though, I used to think this was mostly a done deal that's being occasionally brought up by people fascinated with socialism or something. But the longer I live, the more I realize that the issue has not meaningfully improved at all - we've only been distracted from it. And it's much, much older than Marx and co. too. This, and not some general fear of technology, was the whole point of the Luddite movement (very relevant in context of AI). And you can probably find examples stretching back way before industrial revolution too.
satvikpendem 3y ago
What workers own the means of production in the case of an AI? Democratization via open source works, but it actually extends beyond workers to end users. If all the workers at OpenAI were equal shareholders and owned the means of their production, this would not change anything about them profiting from the company and all of their users. Stallman was and continues to be right, open source and freedom for end users is really the only way.
WalterBright 3y ago
Start your own business and you'll own that means of production.
- pbhjpbhj 3y ago
  Why don't poor people just buy a factory to work in??? /s
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Your computer is a means of production.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      Yeeaasss, but so is a lathe or a kiln or a chainsaw. I don't know if OpenAI has actually confirmed what hardware they use or if the press and bloggers did citeogenesis on each other, but the claim is they're using A100 GPUs, and the bigger models have to use several in parallel. I've seen detached houses in Eastern Europe going for the price of two of those cards. The DGX-2 is (was?) priced more like a detached house in Western Europe; the GH200 they just announced appears to be "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". This is similar to how, despite that lathes, kilns, and chainsaws can be bought in supermarkets as impulse purchases, industrial versions of each are rather more expensive.

All road lead to revolution, but it takes time to build. Until then, some sabotage may be in order.

[always has been.jpg] Seriously though, I used to think this was mostly a done deal that's being occasionally brought up by people fascinated with socialism or something. But the longer I live, the more I realize that the issue has not meaningfully improved at all - we've only been distracted from it. And it's much, much older than Marx and co. too. This, and not some general fear of technology, was the whole point of the Luddite movement (very relevant in context of AI). And you can probably find examples stretching back way before industrial revolution too.

satvikpendem 3y ago

What workers own the means of production in the case of an AI? Democratization via open source works, but it actually extends beyond workers to end users. If all the workers at OpenAI were equal shareholders and owned the means of their production, this would not change anything about them profiting from the company and all of their users. Stallman was and continues to be right, open source and freedom for end users is really the only way.

WalterBright 3y ago

Start your own business and you'll own that means of production.

pbhjpbhj 3y ago
Why don't poor people just buy a factory to work in??? /s
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Your computer is a means of production.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Yeeaasss, but so is a lathe or a kiln or a chainsaw. I don't know if OpenAI has actually confirmed what hardware they use or if the press and bloggers did citeogenesis on each other, but the claim is they're using A100 GPUs, and the bigger models have to use several in parallel. I've seen detached houses in Eastern Europe going for the price of two of those cards. The DGX-2 is (was?) priced more like a detached house in Western Europe; the GH200 they just announced appears to be "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". This is similar to how, despite that lathes, kilns, and chainsaws can be bought in supermarkets as impulse purchases, industrial versions of each are rather more expensive.