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I don't disagree, however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. The 3D photo thing is s

I don't disagree, however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. The 3D photo thing is super weird, they could release a stand alone camera in future, BUT, I think this is a v1 product, imagine where it'll be in 5 years time, or an SE model which isn't wrap around. I already wear glasses so having AR glasses is no big leap.

mcny 3y ago
> I think this is a v1 product This is exactly what I tell myself. This is equivalent to their five hundred dollar original iPhone with no App Store or even copy and paste functionality. I expect the SE to cost a third of this if not a fifth. Edit: five hundred dollar iPhone typo
- Lolaccount 3y ago
  A fifth? ... You mean like the $100 iPhone they're about to release?!
  - kcmastrpc 3y ago
    cognitive dissonance is real. what is the totl retail now days? like $1500?
    - Lolaccount 3y ago
      I know! ... my guess is the price will stay the same for the Pro version for a long time ... released with a lower spec slightly cheaper version ... Then they'll keep adding features to justify the price ... Then after a few years, the price will start creeping higher and higher. And then, when the implanted-AI version comes out, it'll be $15,000 for Pro Pro AI Max version ... "Literally Think Different!" /only semi-joking ... this was basically the iPhone playbook and why wouldn't it be applied to the Vision?
jb1991 3y ago
That's a good point, maybe eventually some of the tech will leak out and not actually require wearing the goggles. Regarding phones, I see your point there too, but at least with phones people can still look up make eye contact, easily set the phone down when needing to interact with someone; unlike these, there is a definite wearing-them and not-wearing barrier that many will probably not cross on a whim, so we'll just get used to interacting with virtually projected eyeballs on the outside of them. Very strange to me.
- naravara 3y ago
  You can just flip the goggles up if you’re talking to someone. That’s often what people with tinted safety goggles, like welders, do. Having to take AirPods out of your ears is more obtrusive I think.
  - mcny 3y ago
    > Having to take AirPods out of your ears is more obtrusive I think. I don't own airpods but I don't mind if someone comes to talk to me with airpods on. I think it would be stranger having someone come up to me and talk to me with the goggles on.
    - naravara 3y ago
      People often try to talk to me while I'm walking the dog and I keep having to tell them to repeat themselves after I pause the audio and turn off the noise isolation.
      - mcny 3y ago
        > People often try to talk to me while I'm walking the dog and I keep having to tell them to repeat themselves after I pause the audio and turn off the noise isolation. Well that is just plain rude. I meant if someone with airpods on comes to talk to me, I am reasonably sure they have transparency on or something like that.
nixpulvis 3y ago
We should be moving away from that not further into it though.
princevegeta89 3y ago
I don't see phone as being equivalent to a VR headset. Phone is just a few sq. inches of distraction whereas the VR stuff is a 360 degree false world full of delusion.
- BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
  In your mind it's not that different. Consider the importance of media on shaping your thoughts, beliefs, memories, emotions. Whether delivered through a cinema screen or a tiny phone doesn't matter. VR/AR has wow factor, but you quickly get used to it, and then your concerns are mostly pragmatic: the headset is huge, the battery life short and so on. Although AR at least has pass through, which is a big benefit, as it doesn't completely hide your real surroundings.
  - Jochim 3y ago
    I'm a fan of VR/AR but found Apple's reveal video to be profoundly sad. There's a sense of isolation running through the whole thing. The immediate connection many people made was to Black Mirror. The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. From the children's perspective, instead of their father's face they see a pair of black goggles and rather than their father's eyes they see a digital facsimile.
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      >The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. "Hold still son so I can record this moment, I've only got 10 minutes out of the 2h of battery left on this headset" lol The mental illnesses kids will have growing up with tech addicted parents are gonna be epic. Therapists are gonna be printing money.
      - kanbara 3y ago
        people already film their kids on their phone, take live photos of their dogs, and tiktok/insta themselves in a cool place. having the ability to share parts of our lives remotely and also remember them is profound. i often look back at photos of the past few years, and remark at memories i've forgotten, places i've been, and i share those things with others as well. sure no one wants 10 people in a room interacting thru their apple vision pro, but i really don't think it's fundamentally different. and if i could have a 3d video of my deceased family that looks more real than a photo, i'd love that. look at the parts of the tech that connect us more; there will always be negative things, loners, tech addicts, etc. and as for the mental illness quip, i honestly don't have an answer because it's so outlandish we can't even begin to quantify it
BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
> The 3D photo thing is super weird, they could release a stand alone camera in future We can call it "iPhone"
- wildpeaks 3y ago
  They showed the iPhone camera can be used for taking Facetime calls on tv using Apple TV boxes, so it would make sense for them to add a way to use an iPhone as additional camera.
divbzero 3y ago
Strapping on goggles to record a family moment feels super weird to me too. I wonder if future iPhones will have the sensors required to take 3D photos.
- ZiiS 3y ago
  I expect current iPhones can do a good enough job. Lidar + just waving it around + AI make this mainly a software problem.
  - matwood 3y ago
    Yeah, I'm betting the next iPhone will have a new record mode.
- hellweaver666 3y ago
  I don't think this is something most "normal" people will do. However, I can see use cases in industry where grabbing a quick photo of some equipment etc might be useful, or in sports where for example cyclists could have a heads up display and use the camera to capture a beautiful view they discover. As a parent myself, the idea that someone would stop what they are doing to put on goggles to take a photo seems crazy. You would miss the moment. The only reason I use my phone for most photos over a DSLR or Mirrorless is because the phone is right in your pocket and instantly available at all times. I'm pretty sure the newer iPhones already have lidar sensors don't they?
  - Fuzzwah 3y ago
    Not enough people have seen the movie Strange Days. Watching recordings of people doing interesting things could be the killer feature. Porn is obvious, but even just experiencing the recording of someone walking through some beautiful place will be a treat.
thih9 3y ago
> they could release a stand alone camera in future I would prefer a lens that could adapt an existing camera to 3d photography / video. Some already exist, like: - Canon RF 5.2mm F2.8 L Dual Fisheye: https://www.dpreview.com/news/7991481617/canon-shows-first-footage-from-its-unusual-canon-rf-5-2mm-f2-8-l-dual-fisheye-lens https://www.dpreview.com/news/7991481617/canon-shows-first-f... - Loreo 3D Lens 9005: https://www.oddcameras.com/loreo_3d_lens_9005.htm https://www.oddcameras.com/loreo_3d_lens_9005.htm
lm28469 3y ago
> however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. Do we want more of that ?
- brookst 3y ago
  Does it matter what “we” want? If you want to use your phone less, use your phone less. Complaining about how other people use their phones “too much” is just kids-these-days.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Does that work for free access heroin too ? Military grade weapons ? Driving under influence ? There is a reason we live in organised societies, with rules and limitations, and it's not so that you can do "whatever you want whenever you want" At some point we have to decide where we want to steer the ship
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Yes, it does matter what "we" want. This is how society and culture works, by people debating what's good and what isn't good, and deciding to regulate some of the things that really aren't good through law, and "regulate" other things that aren't good through cultural norms. Within my circles, the "regulation" of not having everyone on their phones constantly in social settings has been slowly but surely taking root for years. And that's a good thing. I hope (and believe) the same will be true of these headsets.
bowsamic 3y ago
> however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. Yeah and that's really bad. I have a friend who used to do this, even back when phones first started coming out. He couldn't resist just being on his phone, trying to talk to him was a nightmare.
ricw 3y ago
Rather than releasing a stand alone camera, I’d expect the vision pro headset to act as one too. In other words I’d expect it to be able to take spatial pictures whilst not being worn. Less creepy, and more like taking a picture with your camera / phone.
- lukeck 3y ago
  Or make an iPhone that can take spatial pictures.
  - niklasrde 3y ago
    This is just plain obvious. Not sure it'll be part of the '23 lineup; WWDC does not showcase new iPhone hardware features, but they have the hardware ready and miniaturised enough for the headset; if it doesn't make it's way to the Pro iPhones by '24 at the latest I'd be very surprised. The sports clips and experiences are also not captured by people with headsets standing on the sideline; I'm not sure why a lot of commenters see this as the bleak new future?
piceas 3y ago
I think it's weird because the example they used of the birthday is trying too hard to be family-friendly and social. The HoloLens had some great examples of highlighting where to hit a mechanism to make it work. I have no idea if it was any good in reality. That doesn't work for Apple, at least not for advertising. I think it would have been neat to have shown a sports person/dancer/musician looking through the eyes of their instructor to correct their posture, etc. Or at least show them reviewing the recording together.

mcny 3y ago

> I think this is a v1 product This is exactly what I tell myself. This is equivalent to their five hundred dollar original iPhone with no App Store or even copy and paste functionality. I expect the SE to cost a third of this if not a fifth. Edit: five hundred dollar iPhone typo

Lolaccount 3y ago
A fifth? ... You mean like the $100 iPhone they're about to release?!
- kcmastrpc 3y ago
  cognitive dissonance is real. what is the totl retail now days? like $1500?
  - Lolaccount 3y ago
    I know! ... my guess is the price will stay the same for the Pro version for a long time ... released with a lower spec slightly cheaper version ... Then they'll keep adding features to justify the price ... Then after a few years, the price will start creeping higher and higher. And then, when the implanted-AI version comes out, it'll be $15,000 for Pro Pro AI Max version ... "Literally Think Different!" /only semi-joking ... this was basically the iPhone playbook and why wouldn't it be applied to the Vision?

jb1991 3y ago

That's a good point, maybe eventually some of the tech will leak out and not actually require wearing the goggles. Regarding phones, I see your point there too, but at least with phones people can still look up make eye contact, easily set the phone down when needing to interact with someone; unlike these, there is a definite wearing-them and not-wearing barrier that many will probably not cross on a whim, so we'll just get used to interacting with virtually projected eyeballs on the outside of them. Very strange to me.

naravara 3y ago
You can just flip the goggles up if you’re talking to someone. That’s often what people with tinted safety goggles, like welders, do. Having to take AirPods out of your ears is more obtrusive I think.
- mcny 3y ago
  > Having to take AirPods out of your ears is more obtrusive I think. I don't own airpods but I don't mind if someone comes to talk to me with airpods on. I think it would be stranger having someone come up to me and talk to me with the goggles on.
  - naravara 3y ago
    People often try to talk to me while I'm walking the dog and I keep having to tell them to repeat themselves after I pause the audio and turn off the noise isolation.
    - mcny 3y ago
      > People often try to talk to me while I'm walking the dog and I keep having to tell them to repeat themselves after I pause the audio and turn off the noise isolation. Well that is just plain rude. I meant if someone with airpods on comes to talk to me, I am reasonably sure they have transparency on or something like that.

nixpulvis 3y ago

We should be moving away from that not further into it though.

princevegeta89 3y ago

I don't see phone as being equivalent to a VR headset. Phone is just a few sq. inches of distraction whereas the VR stuff is a 360 degree false world full of delusion.

BulgarianIdiot 3y ago
In your mind it's not that different. Consider the importance of media on shaping your thoughts, beliefs, memories, emotions. Whether delivered through a cinema screen or a tiny phone doesn't matter. VR/AR has wow factor, but you quickly get used to it, and then your concerns are mostly pragmatic: the headset is huge, the battery life short and so on. Although AR at least has pass through, which is a big benefit, as it doesn't completely hide your real surroundings.
- Jochim 3y ago
  I'm a fan of VR/AR but found Apple's reveal video to be profoundly sad. There's a sense of isolation running through the whole thing. The immediate connection many people made was to Black Mirror. The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. From the children's perspective, instead of their father's face they see a pair of black goggles and rather than their father's eyes they see a digital facsimile.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. "Hold still son so I can record this moment, I've only got 10 minutes out of the 2h of battery left on this headset" lol The mental illnesses kids will have growing up with tech addicted parents are gonna be epic. Therapists are gonna be printing money.
    - kanbara 3y ago
      people already film their kids on their phone, take live photos of their dogs, and tiktok/insta themselves in a cool place. having the ability to share parts of our lives remotely and also remember them is profound. i often look back at photos of the past few years, and remark at memories i've forgotten, places i've been, and i share those things with others as well. sure no one wants 10 people in a room interacting thru their apple vision pro, but i really don't think it's fundamentally different. and if i could have a 3d video of my deceased family that looks more real than a photo, i'd love that. look at the parts of the tech that connect us more; there will always be negative things, loners, tech addicts, etc. and as for the mental illness quip, i honestly don't have an answer because it's so outlandish we can't even begin to quantify it

BulgarianIdiot 3y ago

> The 3D photo thing is super weird, they could release a stand alone camera in future We can call it "iPhone"

wildpeaks 3y ago
They showed the iPhone camera can be used for taking Facetime calls on tv using Apple TV boxes, so it would make sense for them to add a way to use an iPhone as additional camera.

divbzero 3y ago

Strapping on goggles to record a family moment feels super weird to me too. I wonder if future iPhones will have the sensors required to take 3D photos.

ZiiS 3y ago
I expect current iPhones can do a good enough job. Lidar + just waving it around + AI make this mainly a software problem.
- matwood 3y ago
  Yeah, I'm betting the next iPhone will have a new record mode.
hellweaver666 3y ago
I don't think this is something most "normal" people will do. However, I can see use cases in industry where grabbing a quick photo of some equipment etc might be useful, or in sports where for example cyclists could have a heads up display and use the camera to capture a beautiful view they discover. As a parent myself, the idea that someone would stop what they are doing to put on goggles to take a photo seems crazy. You would miss the moment. The only reason I use my phone for most photos over a DSLR or Mirrorless is because the phone is right in your pocket and instantly available at all times. I'm pretty sure the newer iPhones already have lidar sensors don't they?
- Fuzzwah 3y ago
  Not enough people have seen the movie Strange Days. Watching recordings of people doing interesting things could be the killer feature. Porn is obvious, but even just experiencing the recording of someone walking through some beautiful place will be a treat.

thih9 3y ago

> they could release a stand alone camera in future I would prefer a lens that could adapt an existing camera to 3d photography / video. Some already exist, like: - Canon RF 5.2mm F2.8 L Dual Fisheye: https://www.dpreview.com/news/7991481617/canon-shows-first-footage-from-its-unusual-canon-rf-5-2mm-f2-8-l-dual-fisheye-lens https://www.dpreview.com/news/7991481617/canon-shows-first-f... - Loreo 3D Lens 9005: https://www.oddcameras.com/loreo_3d_lens_9005.htm https://www.oddcameras.com/loreo_3d_lens_9005.htm

lm28469 3y ago

> however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. Do we want more of that ?

brookst 3y ago
Does it matter what “we” want? If you want to use your phone less, use your phone less. Complaining about how other people use their phones “too much” is just kids-these-days.
- lm28469 3y ago
  Does that work for free access heroin too ? Military grade weapons ? Driving under influence ? There is a reason we live in organised societies, with rules and limitations, and it's not so that you can do "whatever you want whenever you want" At some point we have to decide where we want to steer the ship
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Yes, it does matter what "we" want. This is how society and culture works, by people debating what's good and what isn't good, and deciding to regulate some of the things that really aren't good through law, and "regulate" other things that aren't good through cultural norms. Within my circles, the "regulation" of not having everyone on their phones constantly in social settings has been slowly but surely taking root for years. And that's a good thing. I hope (and believe) the same will be true of these headsets.

bowsamic 3y ago

> however when was the last time you walked into a room where at least one person wasn't solely focused on their phone. Yeah and that's really bad. I have a friend who used to do this, even back when phones first started coming out. He couldn't resist just being on his phone, trying to talk to him was a nightmare.

ricw 3y ago

Rather than releasing a stand alone camera, I’d expect the vision pro headset to act as one too. In other words I’d expect it to be able to take spatial pictures whilst not being worn. Less creepy, and more like taking a picture with your camera / phone.

lukeck 3y ago
Or make an iPhone that can take spatial pictures.
- niklasrde 3y ago
  This is just plain obvious. Not sure it'll be part of the '23 lineup; WWDC does not showcase new iPhone hardware features, but they have the hardware ready and miniaturised enough for the headset; if it doesn't make it's way to the Pro iPhones by '24 at the latest I'd be very surprised. The sports clips and experiences are also not captured by people with headsets standing on the sideline; I'm not sure why a lot of commenters see this as the bleak new future?

piceas 3y ago

I think it's weird because the example they used of the birthday is trying too hard to be family-friendly and social. The HoloLens had some great examples of highlighting where to hit a mechanism to make it work. I have no idea if it was any good in reality. That doesn't work for Apple, at least not for advertising. I think it would have been neat to have shown a sports person/dancer/musician looking through the eyes of their instructor to correct their posture, etc. Or at least show them reviewing the recording together.