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Microsoft is very hostile toward its users. They added Ads in the paid version of the operating system. You can't uninstall Edge. Even if you remove Edge, which

Microsoft is very hostile toward its users. They added Ads in the paid version of the operating system. You can't uninstall Edge. Even if you remove Edge, which is difficult, the following Windows update will reinstall it. Instead of searching for the next big idea, how about you fix your dam OS first and stop installing stupid games and showing Ads? Keep it Microsoft with your stupid games, and Google has nothing to worry about you. LOL.

aaomidi 3y ago
Honestly people who can, should ditch windows.
- yndoendo 3y ago
  Often the anchor to Microsoft Windows is legacy. Both in existing code and existing knowledge. Takes energy to diverge away from both. Currently maintain applications because the former developer only knew C#. Also the tools used to configure devices are only Windows based. This dramatically harms quality of the product in the long run and support. My experience with product is design. Use the solution the fits the problem not the solution you currently know and rely on. You have to pay me to engage with Microsoft / Windows!
judge2020 3y ago
Doesn't Edge on Windows work like Chrome does on Android, with it providing an API that other apps can use to render webpages in something other than Trident?
- kevingadd 3y ago
  Yeah. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview2/concepts/distribution https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview2/co...
- tacticus 3y ago
  and yet the "are you sure you don't want edge" popup isn't requried in this use case. combine that with the fact that their own apps will only open in edge in future versions makes it not like chrome on android.
- tmottabr 3y ago
  Yeah... And before Edge it was IE.. IE was also impossible to remove backj in the days.. they did have an option uninstall but all it did was remove the icons from start menu, but all the files where still there.. At this day and age the browser is so deeply integrated into the OS that is not really possible to remove it without breaking things.. This is why you cant remove Edge from Windows, Chrome from Android and Safari from apple things. Even in linux, Gnome has Epiphany (now Gnome WEB) and KDE has Konqueror..
devinprater 3y ago
Gosh yes. Even for blind users, now they're doing this awful thing where even the File Explorer context menu (shift + F10) is this weird preview of "options most people will need" where at the bottom there's a "view more" thing which opens the actual context menu, where my 7Zip, Dropbox, open in terminal, and stuff are. Ugh can't wait until either Linux is accessible enough for non-programmers and advanced users, or MacOS VoiceOver can work well enough with the web to work with Google Docs and Salesforce. Windows 11 is not the most accessible version of Windows yet, Microsoft, and wasn't built from the ground up to be accessible. Just look at this Kaiju dung! https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/07/01/whats-coming-in-windows-11-accessibility/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/07/01/whats... The speed of apps, lol. Yep, that's right. Move fast and break things.
- vharuck 3y ago
  There's a fix for that, but it requires editing the registry: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/restore-old-right-click-context-menu-in-windows-11/a62e797c-eaf3-411b-aeec-e460e6e5a82a https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/restor... I'm so much happier after doing it. Hard to believe Microsoft thought it was a good move for user happiness. Sure, they should avoid intimidating users with no computer savvy, but I doubt those users often open the context menu.
  - anonymousab 3y ago
    With each new Windows release we inevitably hear from insiders that Microsoft has several influential designers and PMs who all but refuse to use Windows in their work and home lives. Anti-dogfooding-based development.
- happymellon 3y ago
  > Ugh can't wait until either Linux is accessible enough for non-programmers and advanced users My 8 year old and 12 year old are both fine using Linux, so I wouldn't call them advanced or technical. What do you need it to do that you can't? [Edit] Somehow I missed the blind part. I haven't tried those accessibility functions, though I would have thought that corporate customers would have required that so they don't get sued.
chongli 3y ago
Instead of searching for the next big idea, how about you fix your dam OS first and stop installing stupid games and showing Ads? They’re monetizing their install base. All of the things they do that annoy the heck out of people on HN are things they’ve A/B tested to increase revenues. If they listened to you then you’d be happier but they’d be leaving money on the table. You’re probably right that this sort of “scorched earth” monetization at all costs is bad for the company’s long-term future. But the stock market doesn’t care about that. They only care about the next quarter.
- rvba 3y ago
  The A/B testers optimize for local maximum... but dont realize global minimum. People will just use the pirated version where all this crap is disabled.
- FredPret 3y ago
  I think to win long-term in any market, it helps tremendously to win the hearts and minds of the “elite” users first. You see this in fashion, in cars, in tech, even in investments. These top / early / elite consumers tell the rest what to buy. For example, the non-techies in my life use (MS) ChatGPT only because I told them about it and also told them it’s the next big thing. I will also add that I think the majority of investment money is in the hands of long-term thinkers; a lot of this money is managed on behalf of others. It would behoove every CEO to make the power users happy over the long term.
- libraryatnight 3y ago
  [flagged]
pierat 3y ago
Debian is *NOT* hostile towards its user base. And these days, that's worth more than its weight in gold. But feel free to keep being the "old man yells at cloud". that cloud (microsoft) doesn't care.
- lmm 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - j16sdiz 3y ago
    Debian is kinda being forced to move. Without systemd, half of the newer feature in Gnome are unusable. to be frank, it is not a hard requirements... But debian don't have the resources to support both use cases
    - hulitu 3y ago
      There are other DE besides Gnome. And window managers. Slackware dropped Gnome a long time ago.
  - Denvercoder9 3y ago
    > against the wishes of its userbase Against the wishes of a (vocal) part of its userbase. There's plenty of people running Debian that welcome the switch to systemd.
  - foxylad 3y ago
    Comparing a not-for-profit that made one decision you didn't like to a company that has a long history of screwing over the entire personal computing ecosystem for commercial gain is delusional.
  - ryukoposting 3y ago
    Oh christ, this nonsense again. The switch to systemd was a practical engineering decision. Shoving ads into the Start menu has totally different intentions, and totally different effects on user experience. I tried Devuan. It sucked. It booted slower, it was more difficult to set up, and apt upgrade made things explode more frequently that it does in Debian. If all you did on your computer was browse the internet, you'd never know the difference. If you use your computer for anything more sophisticated than that, Devuan offered a markedly worse experience. I don't care what you think of Poettering.
29athrowaway 3y ago
You can have a perfectly good Microsoft-free life in 2023. But some people keep buying and using their products without bothering to look for alternatives.
- drukenemo 3y ago
  Tell that to most companies. I have no option, but to work with Microsoft software at my work.
  - fleshdaddy 3y ago
    Yeah I think if you’re coming from the startup or less so tech in general you may not realize how ubiquitous Microsoft is at work. A massive amount of companies are Microsoft from the ground up. Not to mention there are some entire industries where to run the necessary software you have to use windows at the very least.
    - esafak 3y ago
      Usually companies that don't let their workers choose their tools. They buy what's cheap and looks good on paper.
  - pid-1 3y ago
    For companies, there is no sane equivalent to Active Directory. The switch is actually much harder than for home users.
- Inityx 3y ago
  Not if you play PC VR games :(
flangola7 3y ago
When was there ever a non paid version of Windows?
- nunobrito 3y ago
  Up until Windows XP you'd see Microsoft turning a blind eye to pirate serial keys. This worked marvels for non paid mass adoption back in the day.
anoy8888 3y ago
Microsoft likes to play dirty . It is in their genes
Incipient 3y ago
Have you tried uninstalling chrome from Android? I can't even uninstall "pixel tips" - an entirely unimportant "tips" app is mandatory?! A browser I can understand with how common PWAs are these days.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  You can't, though you can disable it, along with the most Google apps. If you want a phone without "G.suite" that's way harder of course.
tmottabr 3y ago
Google is just as hostile, if not more.. Google did the same thing in the early days of Chrome.. using search to heavily promote Chrome.. They went as far as making so everything else they did would not work correctly on other browsers artificially.. They would introduce random delays or flat out refuse to work in other browsers but all you had to do was change the browser user-agent to mimic Chrome and things would magically start working.. Sorry but i am not sorry at all for Google.. They both are no different from each other.. Just two companies trying to maximize the amount of money they make..

aaomidi 3y ago

Honestly people who can, should ditch windows.

yndoendo 3y ago
Often the anchor to Microsoft Windows is legacy. Both in existing code and existing knowledge. Takes energy to diverge away from both. Currently maintain applications because the former developer only knew C#. Also the tools used to configure devices are only Windows based. This dramatically harms quality of the product in the long run and support. My experience with product is design. Use the solution the fits the problem not the solution you currently know and rely on. You have to pay me to engage with Microsoft / Windows!

judge2020 3y ago

Doesn't Edge on Windows work like Chrome does on Android, with it providing an API that other apps can use to render webpages in something other than Trident?

kevingadd 3y ago
Yeah. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview2/concepts/distribution https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview2/co...
tacticus 3y ago
and yet the "are you sure you don't want edge" popup isn't requried in this use case. combine that with the fact that their own apps will only open in edge in future versions makes it not like chrome on android.
tmottabr 3y ago
Yeah... And before Edge it was IE.. IE was also impossible to remove backj in the days.. they did have an option uninstall but all it did was remove the icons from start menu, but all the files where still there.. At this day and age the browser is so deeply integrated into the OS that is not really possible to remove it without breaking things.. This is why you cant remove Edge from Windows, Chrome from Android and Safari from apple things. Even in linux, Gnome has Epiphany (now Gnome WEB) and KDE has Konqueror..

devinprater 3y ago

Gosh yes. Even for blind users, now they're doing this awful thing where even the File Explorer context menu (shift + F10) is this weird preview of "options most people will need" where at the bottom there's a "view more" thing which opens the actual context menu, where my 7Zip, Dropbox, open in terminal, and stuff are. Ugh can't wait until either Linux is accessible enough for non-programmers and advanced users, or MacOS VoiceOver can work well enough with the web to work with Google Docs and Salesforce. Windows 11 is not the most accessible version of Windows yet, Microsoft, and wasn't built from the ground up to be accessible. Just look at this Kaiju dung! https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/07/01/whats-coming-in-windows-11-accessibility/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/07/01/whats... The speed of apps, lol. Yep, that's right. Move fast and break things.

vharuck 3y ago
There's a fix for that, but it requires editing the registry: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/restore-old-right-click-context-menu-in-windows-11/a62e797c-eaf3-411b-aeec-e460e6e5a82a https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/restor... I'm so much happier after doing it. Hard to believe Microsoft thought it was a good move for user happiness. Sure, they should avoid intimidating users with no computer savvy, but I doubt those users often open the context menu.
- anonymousab 3y ago
  With each new Windows release we inevitably hear from insiders that Microsoft has several influential designers and PMs who all but refuse to use Windows in their work and home lives. Anti-dogfooding-based development.
happymellon 3y ago
> Ugh can't wait until either Linux is accessible enough for non-programmers and advanced users My 8 year old and 12 year old are both fine using Linux, so I wouldn't call them advanced or technical. What do you need it to do that you can't? [Edit] Somehow I missed the blind part. I haven't tried those accessibility functions, though I would have thought that corporate customers would have required that so they don't get sued.

chongli 3y ago

Instead of searching for the next big idea, how about you fix your dam OS first and stop installing stupid games and showing Ads? They’re monetizing their install base. All of the things they do that annoy the heck out of people on HN are things they’ve A/B tested to increase revenues. If they listened to you then you’d be happier but they’d be leaving money on the table. You’re probably right that this sort of “scorched earth” monetization at all costs is bad for the company’s long-term future. But the stock market doesn’t care about that. They only care about the next quarter.

rvba 3y ago
The A/B testers optimize for local maximum... but dont realize global minimum. People will just use the pirated version where all this crap is disabled.
FredPret 3y ago
I think to win long-term in any market, it helps tremendously to win the hearts and minds of the “elite” users first. You see this in fashion, in cars, in tech, even in investments. These top / early / elite consumers tell the rest what to buy. For example, the non-techies in my life use (MS) ChatGPT only because I told them about it and also told them it’s the next big thing. I will also add that I think the majority of investment money is in the hands of long-term thinkers; a lot of this money is managed on behalf of others. It would behoove every CEO to make the power users happy over the long term.
libraryatnight 3y ago
[flagged]

pierat 3y ago

Debian is *NOT* hostile towards its user base. And these days, that's worth more than its weight in gold. But feel free to keep being the "old man yells at cloud". that cloud (microsoft) doesn't care.

lmm 3y ago
[flagged]
- j16sdiz 3y ago
  Debian is kinda being forced to move. Without systemd, half of the newer feature in Gnome are unusable. to be frank, it is not a hard requirements... But debian don't have the resources to support both use cases
  - hulitu 3y ago
    There are other DE besides Gnome. And window managers. Slackware dropped Gnome a long time ago.
- Denvercoder9 3y ago
  > against the wishes of its userbase Against the wishes of a (vocal) part of its userbase. There's plenty of people running Debian that welcome the switch to systemd.
- foxylad 3y ago
  Comparing a not-for-profit that made one decision you didn't like to a company that has a long history of screwing over the entire personal computing ecosystem for commercial gain is delusional.
- ryukoposting 3y ago
  Oh christ, this nonsense again. The switch to systemd was a practical engineering decision. Shoving ads into the Start menu has totally different intentions, and totally different effects on user experience. I tried Devuan. It sucked. It booted slower, it was more difficult to set up, and apt upgrade made things explode more frequently that it does in Debian. If all you did on your computer was browse the internet, you'd never know the difference. If you use your computer for anything more sophisticated than that, Devuan offered a markedly worse experience. I don't care what you think of Poettering.

29athrowaway 3y ago

You can have a perfectly good Microsoft-free life in 2023. But some people keep buying and using their products without bothering to look for alternatives.

drukenemo 3y ago
Tell that to most companies. I have no option, but to work with Microsoft software at my work.
- fleshdaddy 3y ago
  Yeah I think if you’re coming from the startup or less so tech in general you may not realize how ubiquitous Microsoft is at work. A massive amount of companies are Microsoft from the ground up. Not to mention there are some entire industries where to run the necessary software you have to use windows at the very least.
  - esafak 3y ago
    Usually companies that don't let their workers choose their tools. They buy what's cheap and looks good on paper.
- pid-1 3y ago
  For companies, there is no sane equivalent to Active Directory. The switch is actually much harder than for home users.
Inityx 3y ago
Not if you play PC VR games :(

flangola7 3y ago

When was there ever a non paid version of Windows?

nunobrito 3y ago
Up until Windows XP you'd see Microsoft turning a blind eye to pirate serial keys. This worked marvels for non paid mass adoption back in the day.

anoy8888 3y ago

Microsoft likes to play dirty . It is in their genes

Incipient 3y ago

Have you tried uninstalling chrome from Android? I can't even uninstall "pixel tips" - an entirely unimportant "tips" app is mandatory?! A browser I can understand with how common PWAs are these days.

justsomehnguy 3y ago
You can't, though you can disable it, along with the most Google apps. If you want a phone without "G.suite" that's way harder of course.

tmottabr 3y ago

Google is just as hostile, if not more.. Google did the same thing in the early days of Chrome.. using search to heavily promote Chrome.. They went as far as making so everything else they did would not work correctly on other browsers artificially.. They would introduce random delays or flat out refuse to work in other browsers but all you had to do was change the browser user-agent to mimic Chrome and things would magically start working.. Sorry but i am not sorry at all for Google.. They both are no different from each other.. Just two companies trying to maximize the amount of money they make..