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During World War 2 the British consulted astrologers as part of their planning process. Not because they believed the astrology predictions, but because Hitler

During World War 2 the British consulted astrologers as part of their planning process. Not because they believed the astrology predictions, but because Hitler did and was known to have astrology influence his attack plans.

mc32 3y ago
That's a cool anecdote and makes sense if you're trying to meet him at his level... So what purpose does pursuing a belief in UFOs have? Are China and Russia gonna be like, what, UFOS?! Let's waste money studying something we have no evidence for!
- King-Aaron 3y ago
  There is evidence, however, which is why the government is studying it.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    There's also a reason the government calls them 'phenomenon' and not 'objects' and not 'aliens'. The reason the government is interested is not because they think there are aliens, it's because their job is to know what is in the sky and understand their sensor readings. It doesn't really matter if it's China, aliens, a lens flare, or a kid with a drone. The military should be able to know what is in the sky.
    - King-Aaron 3y ago
      That's it. It would be far better to know if it's some feedback in our sensors rather than Chinese hypersonic drones. I find it concerning that so many people want to just dismiss this off-hand when clearly the military considers it something to be worth looking into.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        The part that is worth dismissing is the immediate jump to aliens. This topic is really a sensor data analysis discussion, not a conspiracy theory convention.
        mc32 3y ago
        Why does the government not just say that? Hey, our instruments are having errors/artifacts and we want to fix it AND also dismiss any suggestion of alien craft --but, no, they go along with the most unlikely scenario. Are they looking to look stupid?
        kube-system 3y ago
        Because it would be dumb to publicly acknowledge any specifics of their weaknesses to their enemies. It's not the military's job to placate conspiracy theorists. It's their job to counter foreign threats.
        mc32 3y ago
        They don't have to make any of it public. It was never public till they decided that they wanted to inject aliens into their strategy. Now, the Chinese communists and the Russian Oligarchs both still know our instruments suck, except they attributed to aliens.
        kube-system 3y ago
        > Now, the Chinese communists and the Russian Oligarchs both still know our instruments suck There is no strategic or actionable value in a broad judgement of "sucks" or "doesn't suck". The point of keeping details secret is to prevent someone from building mechanisms to specifically counter it. Information disparity in war is an advantage because it can cause an enemy to misjudge their allocation of resources. (either they underestimate and are out-powered, or they overestimate and waste resources) It's like poker. You might choose to selectively give off some information with your expressions, but you'd easily lose if you showed your cards. > they decided that they wanted to inject aliens into their strategy. The US military has not entertained the idea of aliens.
    - Sunspark 3y ago
      During the "balloon shootdowns" earlier this year, NORAD referred to them as objects and some people looked a little shook. They wouldn't show us pictures from any camera.. not from the planes, not from the missiles, nada. Yet, when Russia clumsily attacked a US drone near Ukraine, footage of the event was made available almost right away. The "balloons" absolutely were referred to as objects, and you should question what was so special about them that they won't show anything. Embarrassment at repeatedly scrambling F-22 Raptors to shoot missiles at a child's party balloon is not a good enough reason. It was something. It wasn't nothing and it's just been brushed under the carpet as if it never happened. That's nice, but you know what? If the object was "other", it'll be back.
      - nradov 3y ago
        What are you talking about? They released multiple pictures of the Chinese spy balloons. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-spy-balloon-over-montana-is-part-of-a-larger-more-troubling-pattern https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-spy-balloon-ove...
        Sunspark 3y ago
        That was only the 1st one which China owned up to. What about the other 3 objects that had fighters scrambled from both the US and Canada and of which no photos exist and no-one has claimed ownership of? One object was blamed on a hobby balloon club and I have questions about it because usually winds move west to east and their balloon allegedly travelled east to west. In any case, how about the other 2 that weren't blamed on anyone, especially the one over Alaska? Nobody can answer the questions because it's all classified "National Security".
        kube-system 3y ago
        > I have questions about it because usually winds move west to east and their balloon allegedly travelled east to west On a macro scale, and on average, yes, but on the scale of a balloon, there are many winds that blow west.
      - deleted 3y ago
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- halfcat 3y ago
  > Are China and Russia gonna be like, what, UFOS?! Let's waste money studying something we have no evidence for! Yes. That’s exactly what happens. [1] “In 1970 United States intelligence sources believed that the Soviet Union was spending 60 million roubles annually on "psychotronic" research. In response to claims that the Soviet program had produced results, the CIA initiated funding for a new program known as SCANATE ("scan by coordinate") in the same year.” That program was funded until 1995. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project
  - RF_Savage 3y ago
    Everything for an edge over the other side. Some folks just are good at staring at goats.

mc32 3y ago

That's a cool anecdote and makes sense if you're trying to meet him at his level... So what purpose does pursuing a belief in UFOs have? Are China and Russia gonna be like, what, UFOS?! Let's waste money studying something we have no evidence for!

King-Aaron 3y ago
There is evidence, however, which is why the government is studying it.
- kube-system 3y ago
  There's also a reason the government calls them 'phenomenon' and not 'objects' and not 'aliens'. The reason the government is interested is not because they think there are aliens, it's because their job is to know what is in the sky and understand their sensor readings. It doesn't really matter if it's China, aliens, a lens flare, or a kid with a drone. The military should be able to know what is in the sky.
  - King-Aaron 3y ago
    That's it. It would be far better to know if it's some feedback in our sensors rather than Chinese hypersonic drones. I find it concerning that so many people want to just dismiss this off-hand when clearly the military considers it something to be worth looking into.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      The part that is worth dismissing is the immediate jump to aliens. This topic is really a sensor data analysis discussion, not a conspiracy theory convention.
      - mc32 3y ago
        Why does the government not just say that? Hey, our instruments are having errors/artifacts and we want to fix it AND also dismiss any suggestion of alien craft --but, no, they go along with the most unlikely scenario. Are they looking to look stupid?
        kube-system 3y ago
        Because it would be dumb to publicly acknowledge any specifics of their weaknesses to their enemies. It's not the military's job to placate conspiracy theorists. It's their job to counter foreign threats.
        mc32 3y ago
        They don't have to make any of it public. It was never public till they decided that they wanted to inject aliens into their strategy. Now, the Chinese communists and the Russian Oligarchs both still know our instruments suck, except they attributed to aliens.
        kube-system 3y ago
        > Now, the Chinese communists and the Russian Oligarchs both still know our instruments suck There is no strategic or actionable value in a broad judgement of "sucks" or "doesn't suck". The point of keeping details secret is to prevent someone from building mechanisms to specifically counter it. Information disparity in war is an advantage because it can cause an enemy to misjudge their allocation of resources. (either they underestimate and are out-powered, or they overestimate and waste resources) It's like poker. You might choose to selectively give off some information with your expressions, but you'd easily lose if you showed your cards. > they decided that they wanted to inject aliens into their strategy. The US military has not entertained the idea of aliens.
  - Sunspark 3y ago
    During the "balloon shootdowns" earlier this year, NORAD referred to them as objects and some people looked a little shook. They wouldn't show us pictures from any camera.. not from the planes, not from the missiles, nada. Yet, when Russia clumsily attacked a US drone near Ukraine, footage of the event was made available almost right away. The "balloons" absolutely were referred to as objects, and you should question what was so special about them that they won't show anything. Embarrassment at repeatedly scrambling F-22 Raptors to shoot missiles at a child's party balloon is not a good enough reason. It was something. It wasn't nothing and it's just been brushed under the carpet as if it never happened. That's nice, but you know what? If the object was "other", it'll be back.
    - nradov 3y ago
      What are you talking about? They released multiple pictures of the Chinese spy balloons. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-spy-balloon-over-montana-is-part-of-a-larger-more-troubling-pattern https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-spy-balloon-ove...
      - Sunspark 3y ago
        That was only the 1st one which China owned up to. What about the other 3 objects that had fighters scrambled from both the US and Canada and of which no photos exist and no-one has claimed ownership of? One object was blamed on a hobby balloon club and I have questions about it because usually winds move west to east and their balloon allegedly travelled east to west. In any case, how about the other 2 that weren't blamed on anyone, especially the one over Alaska? Nobody can answer the questions because it's all classified "National Security".
        kube-system 3y ago
        > I have questions about it because usually winds move west to east and their balloon allegedly travelled east to west On a macro scale, and on average, yes, but on the scale of a balloon, there are many winds that blow west.
    - deleted 3y ago
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
halfcat 3y ago
> Are China and Russia gonna be like, what, UFOS?! Let's waste money studying something we have no evidence for! Yes. That’s exactly what happens. [1] “In 1970 United States intelligence sources believed that the Soviet Union was spending 60 million roubles annually on "psychotronic" research. In response to claims that the Soviet program had produced results, the CIA initiated funding for a new program known as SCANATE ("scan by coordinate") in the same year.” That program was funded until 1995. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project
- RF_Savage 3y ago
  Everything for an edge over the other side. Some folks just are good at staring at goats.