7 ms·
step 1: Throw shit against the wall step 2: See what sticks step 3: Amplify that messaging step 4: Exercise power through providing spectacle and influenc
by hayst4ck 3y ago
step 1: Throw shit against the wall
step 2: See what sticks
step 3: Amplify that messaging
step 4: Exercise power through providing spectacle and influencing attention
step 5: Pacify with spectacle or agitate differences through amplified narratives to create chaos or division
Am I insane for thinking that nation state manipulation of social media narrative is a more likely explanation for the upsurge of UFO/alien related media in the last 2-5 years than "otherworldly" craft?
- celtoid 3y agoNo, you're not insane. That's a more rational explanation than ET is.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoThe Flying Dutchman is thought to probably have been a Fata Morgana. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman With everyone handwringing about climate change clearly being our doom, has no one once wondered if it might be partly responsible for an upsurge in sightings of unexplained aerial phenomenon?
- dcow 3y agoReminds me of the UFO that ended up being a lens flare on a gimbaled camera of a fighter jet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_UFO_videos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_UFO_videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs
- somenameforme 3y agoI'm beyond skeptical of the 'alien' videos, but Mick West is no better. He comes up with some pet theory that can create a similar visual phenomena, completely ignores any and all other factors, and then declares his pet theory the 'truth.' It's literally the exact same sort of conspiracy theory style behavior he claims to be fighting against, but he feels his theories are special because they're mundane, so they must be true - even if they're also about as sound as a house of cards. So for instance at 2:00 in the video you linked, he at least acknowledges that he's "not going to address" among other things that there were reported to be a fleet of the observed objects. He fails to acknowledge that he's also not addressing that the object was also observed from multiple sources. And the "SA" was also picking them up, which I can only assume is a sort of scanned array radar type system. In which case you have multiple forms of instrumentation picking the signals up, multiple trained pilots interpreting them as meaningful and distinct, and more. So in other words he's not going to address the countless things that effectively falsify everything else he's about to say. Finally, this seems to be a newer video. In his past videos he went so far as to suggest that the glare caused by the exhaust of a jet, when one fighter jet was (apparently?) locking onto another jet, all without realizing it. I fully agree with the implied idea there of tossing appeals to authority in the trash, but.... like with all things, sometimes this can be overdone. It seems that part of his theory was removed, and now it seems he's just leaving it as glare from nowhere? Ah yes, that's also one of those things he's "not going to address" now.
- zolland 3y agoHow does any of that affect his thesis that the black object in this specific video isn't the aircraft but is rather an artifact of the camera? He doesn't make any claims about the aircraft because he is saying it isn't visible... and the scope of his analysis is this single piece video evidence.
- ChatGTP 3y agoWe've been warned for a while about this type of thing going on. I guess this is it, it's going on, and we can maybe expect it to be amplified with LLMs.
- catchnear4321 3y agochaos is an opportunity. whether the original signal was generated by little grey men or at the behest of old white ones, there will be amplification by opportunists.
- ChatGTP 3y agoI wasn't clear but I meant the misinformation, I guess you are too? :)
- MichaelMoser123 3y agoI agree. I mean lets assume it is true: how could the US government have failed a real alien ship? Did the poor aliens fail at filling out some paperwork? I mean this ship had to spend so much energy just to get to us, what else could have failed them?
- elefanten 3y agoSeems reasonable that even an intersolar civilization would be subject to bugs, errors, degradation and bad luck. An intersolar trip could’ve damaged a craft far more advanced than what we can make. Could be (perhaps even likely to be) an unpiloted craft. It could be a craft no more technologically advanced than human tech; maybe it’s an alien Voyager 1.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- MichaelMoser123 3y agoThat is possible, strange things happen at sea. Now in the case that they crashed due to a bug, then the programming profession is safe from program verification and AI, I like that option!
- alexdunmow 3y agoA good point. Although it could just be a probe. It could have been programmed to crash land on Earth. Much like we send probes to planets in our solar system. That this is a possibility doesn't make it a likely one, however. But just pointing out that there's possible explanations that counter this thinking.
- poulpy123 3y agoThey didn't fill their ESTA. Dura lex sed lex
- ajross 3y agoAbsolutely fascinating that the top two replies to an article about Aliens! are positing basically the same conspiracy: that this is a deliberate psyop run by a "nation state" and not just... people being wrong about stuff? Why go through the trouble to refute one unlikely and poorly supported hypothesis just to jump right into a new one? Has Occam taught us nothing? There are no successfully hidden "conspiracies" of that scale. Maybe someone can run a successful assassination once in a while and keep it under wraps for a decade or so, but that's as far as it goes. Lips are too loose and threads are too easy to pull, especially in the internet era.
- mc32 3y agoBecause military brass is not supposed to be wrong by going along with such unlikely scenarios. They might as well also believe the fairy god-mother decides the outcome of battles and direct their ire at her. This is The National Enquirer-level stuff.
- mrandish 3y ago> military brass is not supposed to be wrong by going along with such unlikely scenarios. True but that was before we started having idiot legislators in congress willing to throw a few tens of millions at "investigations" by the military. Nothing like easy budget and a cushy assignment for several years to encourage some motivated reasoning. "Hey, if you're payin', I'm investigatin.'"
- AvocadoPanic 3y agoYou mean like being on the board of Theranos?
- mc32 3y agoSo it's to make money off of suckers? They are swindlers? We're no better than John MacAfee's banana republic low-level bribe seeking government employees.
- MacsHeadroom 3y ago
- King-Aaron 3y agoPossibly not. But this narrative has been around for a lot longer than social media. Current technology certainly accelerates the spread of it, but people have been discussing this topic since the literal dark ages.
- mc32 3y agoPeople have been discussing all kinds of things since the dark ages. Should the military consider astrology when making war plans and battle plans too cuz some people did and still make decisions based on astrology?
- King-Aaron 3y agoI understand you're being facetious, but if the military had visual and sensor data of a foreign power entering their airspace due to astrology, then the answer would likely be "probably".
- Communitivity 3y agoDuring World War 2 the British consulted astrologers as part of their planning process. Not because they believed the astrology predictions, but because Hitler did and was known to have astrology influence his attack plans.
- mc32 3y agoThat's a cool anecdote and makes sense if you're trying to meet him at his level... So what purpose does pursuing a belief in UFOs have? Are China and Russia gonna be like, what, UFOS?! Let's waste money studying something we have no evidence for!
- King-Aaron 3y agoThere is evidence, however, which is why the government is studying it.
- 3y ago
- catchnear4321 3y agoyou really think a government would do that? just go on the internet and tell lies?
- alchemist1e9 3y agoPlease add the /s to your comment so nobody accidentally thinks you are serious.
- kube-system 3y agoEven better, here's a link to the meme being referenced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0
- InCityDreams 3y agoAdding /s for people that can't get sarcasm? /h For humour.
- jancsika 3y agoSince we're speculating, the details of "intact and partially intact" stand out. Seems like something a nation state might float if another nation state was (or was planning) ramping up some newfangled drone espionage missions. OMG aliens -> nice advanced tech you got there Intact -> would be a shame if someone ratcheted up tensions by reverse engineering it Partial -> stay off my land illegally withheld from Congress -> if mom and dad find out we're both in trouble
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jerf 3y agoIt is commonly said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Much less commonly said, but still true, is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary trust. I do not trust the people saying these things. That I can not 100% guess their motivations for this is not particularly relevant. They have a long history of consistent and large lies. Failing to take that into account when they're making this sort of claim is foolishness. In fact at this point they're really in a Catch-22... if they really do try to come out with "Yes! Aliens! Really!" then we have the question of, why then were you lying the up to this point then? Because if they are real you've been lying and lying and lying and lying beyond my capacity to express in a single sentence... why should I trust you now, then? I mean, it isn't that hard to imagine how "alien threat!" will require us to, once again, give them more power. It's absolutely astonishing how no matter what the problem is, the solution is to give them more power.
- alehlopeh 3y agoA credible alien threat would give world leaders a super easy excuse to demand emergency powers, impose martial law, and assume total control of all aspects of life, in the name of the war effort. Said world leaders really really want these things, so you can safely assume there isn’t a credible alien threat. You don’t have to trust them, just trust that they’ll act in their own interests and work backwards from there.
- willis936 3y agoI believe this was the plot to Watchmen.
- lelanthran 3y agoI don't think it was. Could be a great piece of fiction based on COVID lockdowns though.
- Jtsummers 3y agoIt was a key element of Watchmen. The movie changed the common enemy from aliens, but kept the general concept. It wasn't the governments that created it, but rather the governments were duped into believing it.
- colechristensen 3y agoEh, you're giving nations too much credit. What's going on is something like emergent disinformation. A combination of * intentional withholding of facts (we don't report on how much we know about foreign spying and interfernce with aircraft, etc), * incompetent reporting within the government (the person denying things is a low level public relations person who isn't told much and knows very little, forced to change stories when scraps of information come down) * memes (UFOs go through waves of popularity of public interest) * legitimate hallucinations * hoaxes * rare atmospheric phenomena What is almost certainly happening is we've got foreign spies etc. with ordinary, unusual, and unfamiliar aircraft bothering us along with thrillseekers with drones etc. on an uptick because drones are cheaper and more possible these days. There might be some really interesting secret aircraft both foreign and domestic flying around, and generally the governments aren't showing their cards about what they can do and what they know... they benefit from the confusion and conspiracies keeping their adversaries off balance chasing the unknown. In the end the people who do know everything know some interesting but still certainly rather mundane information. It's not a case of a grand conspiracy where somebody is trying actively to manipulate public opinion, just vague intentional lack of communication and keeping secrets by just not telling most people anything involved.
- omgwtfbyobbq 3y agoNope. Idle hands and all that...
- Reptur 3y agoJust look at the history of alien / UFO sightings. It all began at the beginning of WW2 and the Cold War. It is my humble opinion all just a psychological operation. Some benefits that a government would have doing such a thing would be: Division, misdirection of MSM and population, other news that is very important is intentionally being sandbagged. Fear, Hysteria, & Confusion allows further tightening of control of a society and prompts consent to loss of liberty in exchange for false security. It also increases government support. As well as an intimidation tactic to their enemies that they possibly have much stronger weapons / tech that they let on.
- Aperocky 3y agoThis doesn't pass the occam's razor. The simplest explanation are mental illness, shameless fame seekers and confused people who saw rocket debris or some supersonic fighter.
- jfoutz 3y agoNot really getting that the speed of light is a universal speed limit is simpler. I want to believe. So I'll spend more time than is wise evaluating evidence. But, like, it's gotta be some really good evidence.
- necovek 3y agoSo far, all of the "laws of physics" have turned out to be true, if they were considered an approximation applicable with a certain set of preconditions. My only hope for human kind travelling interstellar distances is to figure something orthogonal out, as even speed of light is too slow (perhaps we extend our lifetimes to span millenia combined with teleportation? :).
- George83728 3y agoAlso anonymous pranksters, deliberately tricking people using balloons, kites, drones, etc.
- King-Aaron 3y ago
- ck2 3y agoWhat's interesting is your checklist also seems to work for people trying to oppress minority groups. So basically it's the steps to building popular consensus despite missing or contrary facts. Fascinating.
- secondary_op 3y agoMy theory that this is CIA psyop to suppress and distract people from remembering Edward Snowden revelations, it is been exactly 10 years since. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36222610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36222610
- throwaway888abc 3y agoThe "Snowden, 10 years on" banner on this article does stands out Snowden, 10 years on A decade ago, we published the Edward Snowden revelations that forever changed our relationship to our privacy and to our governments. Since then, we have defied the powerful by landing scoops on everything from Big Tech to surveillance, offshore banking to cellphone spyware. .. ..
- somenameforme 3y ago2018 is the first time any military branch would miss its recruitment goals since 2005. That problem has now spread across all branches of the military, where missing recruitment goals has become the norm. People simply don't want to enlist, for reasons one can only imagine... We're now getting things like congressional hearings on why the military is repeatedly failing to hit its recruitment goals [1]. This is also the setting where the military has been trying a variety of different efforts to get people interested. And it's in this exact context that the Pentagon started to release UFO videos and the military was publicly patenting sci-fi level technology like a "craft using an inertial mass reduction device." [2] Not only does the patent read like it was written by a sci-fi jargon-generator LLM, but there's absolutely no point to it. Were something like this real, you would keep it beyond classified to not only maximize your national benefit from it, but to try to keep it out of the hands of peer nations for as long as possible. With it published, if e.g. China or Russia was going to make this, what now? Are you going to sue them? Maybe get the WTO to give them a stern talking to. Its one and only purpose is to publicize "secret" research from the military. So why? Literally the only explanation I can see is it just being another ham-fisted recruitment effort. 'You can go make a living making software pushing ads on people who don't want them, or you can enlist in the military, travel the world, and perhaps even one day get clearance to see and start working where the "real" science is happening.' --- [1] - https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/hearings/to-receive-testimony-on-the-recruiting-challenges-facing-the-united-states-military https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/hearings/to-receive-te... [2] - https://patents.google.com/patent/US10144532B2/en?inventor=Salvatore+Cezar+Pais https://patents.google.com/patent/US10144532B2/en?inventor=S...
- MarkMarine 3y agoI’ve read a lot about the US govt. activity during the end of WW2 (op paper clip, moving Japanese scientists that developed bio/Chen weapons here) , the cold war (long list, but basically fighting a war for capital) , up to fighting socialist “land reform” in Latin America. Everything has a direct line to monied interests, it’s almost strikingly obvious if you have an objective view of what the natsec space is doing. This just doesn’t compute for me. How would monied interests be served by this?
- patmcc 3y agoAnything is a more likely explanation than crash-landed alien spaceships.
- avgcorrection 3y ago“Who benefits?” is alway, always the most important question.