4 ms·

What does this mean in practice? Clearly cows and sheep are sentient and we eat plenty of those. Eating something alive is wrong for it’s own reasons. The majo

by koolba 3y ago

What does this mean in practice? Clearly cows and sheep are sentient and we eat plenty of those. Eating something alive is wrong for it’s own reasons. The majority of religions consider it a sin too!

UberFly 3y ago
Not saying we should start eating things alive, but most of the animal kingdom practices it. It's weird for current humans, but that's about it.
- koolba 3y ago
  Do they though? Are there any vertebrate carnivores that eat their prey alive? AFAIK, they kill the prey so their lunch doesn’t run off the plate. The only exceptions are parasitic wasps and blood suckers like mosquitos.
  - the_doctah 3y ago
    Is that a serious question? Most predators literally eat their prey ass-end first and keep them alive as long as possible.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    Most canines. Not that they intentionally want to eat their prey alive, but as they are pack animals, killing their prey as soon as possible so there's no risk of being injured by the prey fighting back is less of a concern for them than for solitary hunters like the leopard. So for dogs and wolves, starting to eat as soon as possible takes precedence over making sure the prey is really dead. Also, canines are not as strong as felines like the Tiger and the Leopard, so, it is not as easy for them to kill big prey by crushing the windpipe with their jaws like the cats do. On the other side, they may be weaker than the cats but have far more endurance, so, a maimed prey escaping is not much of a big deal, as they are able to pursue the escaping prey for as long as they need without having to stop to rest. Lions are somewhat of a muddy middle ground. Usually, their prey is dead when they start eating, but when the prey is really big, like elephants, they start eating it alive as it is not as easy to kill such big prey. Crocodiles on the other hand will either swallow their prey at once or eat big chunks. It is not really a choice for them. Of course, we must remember that animals don't really have this concept of their prey suffering. They need to eat, and that's all that matters to them.
    - cloverich 3y ago
      > they start eating it alive And it may take quite a while for them to kill it. There are frankly horrifying national geographic videos of this happening, but that's just a lesson that Nature in general is quite cruel. As often as people lament about human nature, we've come quite a long way.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
liquidise 3y ago
I'm unclear as well. TFA states: > The review also evaluated the potential welfare implications of current commercial practices involving these animals. It recommends against declawing, nicking, eyestalk ablation, the sale of live decapod crustaceans to untrained, non-expert handlers, and extreme slaughter methods such as live boiling without stunning. It also includes suggestions for best practices for transport, stunning and slaughter. But this reads more like additional recommendations than required by law under the new classification.
- dmux 3y ago
  >the sale of live decapod crustaceans to untrained, non-expert handlers This seems pretty extreme and like it would increase the cost dramatically.
jeron 3y ago
I think the idea is to stop eating or cooking them live. I kind of disagree with this though, seafood like crabs and lobsters taste best when cooked live…
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Have there been blind taste test comparing seafood killed just before cooking vs cooked alive? That is do we have factual comparison of these two methods?
- web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
  Perhaps one day an alien species will conquer is for sustenance and prefer to consume us live because it tastes better.
  - LinXitoW 3y ago
    Perchance they will not need us for sustenance, and still breed, imprison and kill us, because "hmmm, human bacon". There'll probably also be some weirdos campaigning the idea of not harming humans unnecessarily, but that's probably too extreme.
- niccl 3y ago
  As I understand from the article, you can cook them live, provided they're stunned first. Still seems barbarous to me but ...
  - the_doctah 3y ago
    Yeah I wondered what "stunning" meant. Apparently there is just some specific tool that knocks the shit out of them first. Hey, I guess if I was going to be boiled alive, I'd rather be knocked unconscious first too.
- InCityDreams 3y ago
  Try Lions Mane mushrooms (instead of being a sadist).
ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
I think it's more about the conditions that they're kept and transported in rather than us not killing and eating them. > Eating something alive is wrong for it’s own reasons. Whilst I agree in principle, there's a fuzzy line in what we consider to be alive. Bacteria certainly seem to be fair game with yoghurts being specifically sold as "live". I don't know if animal welfare laws currently cover eating animals whilst they're still alive, though it sounds feasible.
NVHacker 3y ago
It's not about eating, it's about how we are treating them while they are alive. There are rules, for instance, about how you can transport cows. Sadly, in the UK, the transport network (both tube and trains) often (during the hot summer days) provide conditions for human transport that are inferior to the minimum legal requirements for cows.
- toast0 3y ago
  > Sadly, in the UK, the transport network (both tube and trains) often (during the hot summer days) provide conditions for human transport that are inferior to the minimum legal requirements for cows. Well, cows can't decide 'this transport is going to be uncomfortable or possibly dangerous, but I really want to go to the other place, so I'll deal with it'. Would you rather have uncomfortable, possibly dangerous transport or no transport? Yes, you'd rather have comfortable, unlikely to be dangerous transport, but that doesn't seem to be something the transportation network is able to offer.
  - ginja 3y ago
    I think your argument falls short when we consider the compulsion that drives most onto these metaphorical cattle trucks at rush hour in the first place. The employment industry in our prevailing economic structure demands punctuality, often through crowded, uncomfortable and frankly, degrading means of transportation. This perceived "choice" is not a luxury but an enforced necessity, much like the bovine passenger being shipped off to slaughter, with the only distinction being, we humans "chose" this. One could argue that the transportation network isn't able to offer comfortable and safe transit, yet it is more a matter of priorities than abilities. The ability to provide such transport exists, but the political and economic will, sadly is not in abundance. Is it not curious that a society which can show empathy for the transportation of its livestock struggles to extend the same basic courtesy to its own kind? After all, are we not more than just cattle to the abattoir of capitalism?
    - hoorible 3y ago
      Am I missing something or did I actually just stumble across a conversation where people are seriously comparing being put in a steel box on the way to being murdered in a slaughterhouse to suffering the indignity of riding in a crowded transit car on the way to work, because holy fuck.
35997279 3y ago
Perhaps you should reconsider the eating them, if you do.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by koolba 3y ago

UberFly 3y ago

Not saying we should start eating things alive, but most of the animal kingdom practices it. It's weird for current humans, but that's about it.

koolba 3y ago
Do they though? Are there any vertebrate carnivores that eat their prey alive? AFAIK, they kill the prey so their lunch doesn’t run off the plate. The only exceptions are parasitic wasps and blood suckers like mosquitos.
- the_doctah 3y ago
  Is that a serious question? Most predators literally eat their prey ass-end first and keep them alive as long as possible.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  Most canines. Not that they intentionally want to eat their prey alive, but as they are pack animals, killing their prey as soon as possible so there's no risk of being injured by the prey fighting back is less of a concern for them than for solitary hunters like the leopard. So for dogs and wolves, starting to eat as soon as possible takes precedence over making sure the prey is really dead. Also, canines are not as strong as felines like the Tiger and the Leopard, so, it is not as easy for them to kill big prey by crushing the windpipe with their jaws like the cats do. On the other side, they may be weaker than the cats but have far more endurance, so, a maimed prey escaping is not much of a big deal, as they are able to pursue the escaping prey for as long as they need without having to stop to rest. Lions are somewhat of a muddy middle ground. Usually, their prey is dead when they start eating, but when the prey is really big, like elephants, they start eating it alive as it is not as easy to kill such big prey. Crocodiles on the other hand will either swallow their prey at once or eat big chunks. It is not really a choice for them. Of course, we must remember that animals don't really have this concept of their prey suffering. They need to eat, and that's all that matters to them.
  - cloverich 3y ago
    > they start eating it alive And it may take quite a while for them to kill it. There are frankly horrifying national geographic videos of this happening, but that's just a lesson that Nature in general is quite cruel. As often as people lament about human nature, we've come quite a long way.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

liquidise 3y ago

I'm unclear as well. TFA states: > The review also evaluated the potential welfare implications of current commercial practices involving these animals. It recommends against declawing, nicking, eyestalk ablation, the sale of live decapod crustaceans to untrained, non-expert handlers, and extreme slaughter methods such as live boiling without stunning. It also includes suggestions for best practices for transport, stunning and slaughter. But this reads more like additional recommendations than required by law under the new classification.

dmux 3y ago
>the sale of live decapod crustaceans to untrained, non-expert handlers This seems pretty extreme and like it would increase the cost dramatically.

jeron 3y ago

I think the idea is to stop eating or cooking them live. I kind of disagree with this though, seafood like crabs and lobsters taste best when cooked live…

Ekaros 3y ago
Have there been blind taste test comparing seafood killed just before cooking vs cooked alive? That is do we have factual comparison of these two methods?
web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
Perhaps one day an alien species will conquer is for sustenance and prefer to consume us live because it tastes better.
- LinXitoW 3y ago
  Perchance they will not need us for sustenance, and still breed, imprison and kill us, because "hmmm, human bacon". There'll probably also be some weirdos campaigning the idea of not harming humans unnecessarily, but that's probably too extreme.
niccl 3y ago
As I understand from the article, you can cook them live, provided they're stunned first. Still seems barbarous to me but ...
- the_doctah 3y ago
  Yeah I wondered what "stunning" meant. Apparently there is just some specific tool that knocks the shit out of them first. Hey, I guess if I was going to be boiled alive, I'd rather be knocked unconscious first too.
InCityDreams 3y ago
Try Lions Mane mushrooms (instead of being a sadist).

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago

I think it's more about the conditions that they're kept and transported in rather than us not killing and eating them. > Eating something alive is wrong for it’s own reasons. Whilst I agree in principle, there's a fuzzy line in what we consider to be alive. Bacteria certainly seem to be fair game with yoghurts being specifically sold as "live". I don't know if animal welfare laws currently cover eating animals whilst they're still alive, though it sounds feasible.

NVHacker 3y ago

It's not about eating, it's about how we are treating them while they are alive. There are rules, for instance, about how you can transport cows. Sadly, in the UK, the transport network (both tube and trains) often (during the hot summer days) provide conditions for human transport that are inferior to the minimum legal requirements for cows.

toast0 3y ago
> Sadly, in the UK, the transport network (both tube and trains) often (during the hot summer days) provide conditions for human transport that are inferior to the minimum legal requirements for cows. Well, cows can't decide 'this transport is going to be uncomfortable or possibly dangerous, but I really want to go to the other place, so I'll deal with it'. Would you rather have uncomfortable, possibly dangerous transport or no transport? Yes, you'd rather have comfortable, unlikely to be dangerous transport, but that doesn't seem to be something the transportation network is able to offer.
- ginja 3y ago
  I think your argument falls short when we consider the compulsion that drives most onto these metaphorical cattle trucks at rush hour in the first place. The employment industry in our prevailing economic structure demands punctuality, often through crowded, uncomfortable and frankly, degrading means of transportation. This perceived "choice" is not a luxury but an enforced necessity, much like the bovine passenger being shipped off to slaughter, with the only distinction being, we humans "chose" this. One could argue that the transportation network isn't able to offer comfortable and safe transit, yet it is more a matter of priorities than abilities. The ability to provide such transport exists, but the political and economic will, sadly is not in abundance. Is it not curious that a society which can show empathy for the transportation of its livestock struggles to extend the same basic courtesy to its own kind? After all, are we not more than just cattle to the abattoir of capitalism?
  - hoorible 3y ago
    Am I missing something or did I actually just stumble across a conversation where people are seriously comparing being put in a steel box on the way to being murdered in a slaughterhouse to suffering the indignity of riding in a crowded transit car on the way to work, because holy fuck.

35997279 3y ago

Perhaps you should reconsider the eating them, if you do.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]