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> demos that failed to deliver actual user value Does Apple have a a history of doing this? I think that's why people are excited.

by intev 3y ago

pavlov 3y ago
Newton, Power Mac Cube, iMac G4 "Sunflower", and solid gold first-gen Apple Watch come to mind as Apple hardware products that failed to live up to the hype. On the software side there are more misses, but also the stakes are lower. It's a great track record for thirty years, of course. All the other big tech companies have graveyards full of half-assed product launches.
- intev 3y ago
  Other than the watch, all the products you mentioned are before 2002. Anything in the past 20 years that have been huge misses in delivering up to expectation? Also how is the 1st gen watch a failure? It sold millions immediately, and was a huge commercial success. It pretty much started a gold rush for digital watches again. I think it's fair to say the new "Apple" (last 15 years or so), has been pretty good with exceeding expectations and breaking through barriers that other companies just couldn't.
- thomas_ma 3y ago
  In what sense did the iMac G4 fail to live up to the hype? That was my first Mac, I still have it. Thought it was an incredible computer for the time--the iMac + OS X 10.1 Puma was absolutely magical coming from Windows 98 on a beige Dell. The design still looks incredible too, 20+ years later. I will grant that the Newton failed. In the Apple hardware category, I'd also add the iPod Hi-Fi, the butterfly keyboard, and the touch bar. That said, Apple's failures are rare and their multi-decade track record of delivering on hype is unsurpassed.
  - pavlov 3y ago
    The sales of iMac G4 failed so badly that there was a three-month period in 2004 when it was simply unavailable. It was discontinued without a successor on store shelves. It was too expensive to manufacture and Apple wasn't sure they could sell it, so they just didn't make any. Hard to believe that could happen to a Mac model today.
- Jakob 3y ago
  Except for the Apple Watch I had all these products. They were some of the best of their time and even hold up today in terms of design and usability. Your definition of success seems extraordinarily high, if these products were failures. Maybe measured by items sold. But then each of them stands in nearly every single design museum like MoMA, history books, and were clear stepping stones to the Mac mini (cube, sunflower without display), and ipod/phone (newton). So bottom line they were a clear success to Apple’s enormous brand value.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    The NeXT Cube was considered a failure. ... except ... when I write iOS software (for the most successful product of all time), I am frequently using types that have "NS" prefixes. I wonder where they came from?
    - l33tman 3y ago
      IIRC Jobs purchased NeXT when he took the Apple CEO job, to get a new OS base. As NeXT was his company, I'm pretty sure it was a decision based on bias and urgency and not because NextStep was the best there was. But yeah it's an interesting legacy for sure :)
      - hencq 3y ago
        You recall that incorrectly :) The NeXT purchase came first, Jobs as CEO came after that. But yeah, it was a bit of a reverse takeover in a way.
        pflats 3y ago
        More specifically, Steve Jobs founded NeXT after Apple pushed him out in the late 80s. A decade or so later, Apple was on the tail end of a long, slow, downward slide. The team wasn't happy with the current state of their Mac operating system, and bought out NeXT to use their software as the basis of its replacement (Mac OS X). Jobs, as CEO of NeXT, came back to Apple as a consultant, but was CEO again in a matter of years.
- mcphage 3y ago
  > iMac G4 "Sunflower" What was a failure about that? It looked good and worked well. > solid gold first-gen Apple Watch In what way did the gold watch fail? It was the first gen watch, the same hardware as the rest, just made of gold for rich people. It didn’t fail any more than any other color did.
  - pavlov 3y ago
    Both failed badly to live up to Apple's sales expectations. The Sunflower iMac was discontinued even before its successor shipped. The Apple Watch Edition was supposed to grow Apple into a luxury brand and expand its margins massively (you can find many interviews with Jony Ive from 2015 where he explains this thinking). This strategy was a dud.
    - matwood 3y ago
      The AWE strategy failed, yet now the AW (like the iPad) define the category they are in. AV could be similar. Apple doesn't know which use case will take off, but it has to get it out there to find out. Leading with the best hardware they have right now lets developers go wild.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      Have you looked at the revenue from their wearables category? If the Watch is a failure then the Mac is an abject failure.
      - mynameisvlad 3y ago
        You need to seriously read what you’re actually replying to instead of what you think you are because you keep bringing up that the AW is not a failure when nobody said it was.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        > Newton, Power Mac Cube, iMac G4 "Sunflower", and solid gold first-gen Apple Watch come to mind as Apple hardware products that failed to live up to the hype. No one seriously thought that the Apple Watch was going to be an iPhone size hit. It’s a complete straw man argument.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  The Apple Watch is not a failure by any objective measure. It’s very profitable and by far the biggest in the industry. Everything else you name was pre-iPhone.
  - mynameisvlad 3y ago
    They didn’t say the AW was a failure and your obvious cherry-picking of the comment is showing.
Jasper_ 3y ago
More recently, the TouchBar and 3D Touch are both pretty massive market failures for Apple despite being engineered to perfection. I think the killer was that in the Platforms State of the Union, they didn't show anybody wearing the thing, even while saying "and I can send it to the device and look at it there". Almost like they were embarrassed by it, or something...

> demos that failed to deliver actual user value Does Apple have a a history of doing this? I think that's why people are excited.

by intev 3y ago

> demos that failed to deliver actual user value Does Apple have a a history of doing this? I think that's why people are excited.

pavlov 3y ago

Newton, Power Mac Cube, iMac G4 "Sunflower", and solid gold first-gen Apple Watch come to mind as Apple hardware products that failed to live up to the hype. On the software side there are more misses, but also the stakes are lower. It's a great track record for thirty years, of course. All the other big tech companies have graveyards full of half-assed product launches.

intev 3y ago
Other than the watch, all the products you mentioned are before 2002. Anything in the past 20 years that have been huge misses in delivering up to expectation? Also how is the 1st gen watch a failure? It sold millions immediately, and was a huge commercial success. It pretty much started a gold rush for digital watches again. I think it's fair to say the new "Apple" (last 15 years or so), has been pretty good with exceeding expectations and breaking through barriers that other companies just couldn't.
thomas_ma 3y ago
In what sense did the iMac G4 fail to live up to the hype? That was my first Mac, I still have it. Thought it was an incredible computer for the time--the iMac + OS X 10.1 Puma was absolutely magical coming from Windows 98 on a beige Dell. The design still looks incredible too, 20+ years later. I will grant that the Newton failed. In the Apple hardware category, I'd also add the iPod Hi-Fi, the butterfly keyboard, and the touch bar. That said, Apple's failures are rare and their multi-decade track record of delivering on hype is unsurpassed.
- pavlov 3y ago
  The sales of iMac G4 failed so badly that there was a three-month period in 2004 when it was simply unavailable. It was discontinued without a successor on store shelves. It was too expensive to manufacture and Apple wasn't sure they could sell it, so they just didn't make any. Hard to believe that could happen to a Mac model today.
Jakob 3y ago
Except for the Apple Watch I had all these products. They were some of the best of their time and even hold up today in terms of design and usability. Your definition of success seems extraordinarily high, if these products were failures. Maybe measured by items sold. But then each of them stands in nearly every single design museum like MoMA, history books, and were clear stepping stones to the Mac mini (cube, sunflower without display), and ipod/phone (newton). So bottom line they were a clear success to Apple’s enormous brand value.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  The NeXT Cube was considered a failure. ... except ... when I write iOS software (for the most successful product of all time), I am frequently using types that have "NS" prefixes. I wonder where they came from?
  - l33tman 3y ago
    IIRC Jobs purchased NeXT when he took the Apple CEO job, to get a new OS base. As NeXT was his company, I'm pretty sure it was a decision based on bias and urgency and not because NextStep was the best there was. But yeah it's an interesting legacy for sure :)
    - hencq 3y ago
      You recall that incorrectly :) The NeXT purchase came first, Jobs as CEO came after that. But yeah, it was a bit of a reverse takeover in a way.
      - pflats 3y ago
        More specifically, Steve Jobs founded NeXT after Apple pushed him out in the late 80s. A decade or so later, Apple was on the tail end of a long, slow, downward slide. The team wasn't happy with the current state of their Mac operating system, and bought out NeXT to use their software as the basis of its replacement (Mac OS X). Jobs, as CEO of NeXT, came back to Apple as a consultant, but was CEO again in a matter of years.
mcphage 3y ago
> iMac G4 "Sunflower" What was a failure about that? It looked good and worked well. > solid gold first-gen Apple Watch In what way did the gold watch fail? It was the first gen watch, the same hardware as the rest, just made of gold for rich people. It didn’t fail any more than any other color did.
- pavlov 3y ago
  Both failed badly to live up to Apple's sales expectations. The Sunflower iMac was discontinued even before its successor shipped. The Apple Watch Edition was supposed to grow Apple into a luxury brand and expand its margins massively (you can find many interviews with Jony Ive from 2015 where he explains this thinking). This strategy was a dud.
  - matwood 3y ago
    The AWE strategy failed, yet now the AW (like the iPad) define the category they are in. AV could be similar. Apple doesn't know which use case will take off, but it has to get it out there to find out. Leading with the best hardware they have right now lets developers go wild.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Have you looked at the revenue from their wearables category? If the Watch is a failure then the Mac is an abject failure.
    - mynameisvlad 3y ago
      You need to seriously read what you’re actually replying to instead of what you think you are because you keep bringing up that the AW is not a failure when nobody said it was.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        > Newton, Power Mac Cube, iMac G4 "Sunflower", and solid gold first-gen Apple Watch come to mind as Apple hardware products that failed to live up to the hype. No one seriously thought that the Apple Watch was going to be an iPhone size hit. It’s a complete straw man argument.
scarface_74 3y ago
The Apple Watch is not a failure by any objective measure. It’s very profitable and by far the biggest in the industry. Everything else you name was pre-iPhone.
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  They didn’t say the AW was a failure and your obvious cherry-picking of the comment is showing.

Jasper_ 3y ago

More recently, the TouchBar and 3D Touch are both pretty massive market failures for Apple despite being engineered to perfection. I think the killer was that in the Platforms State of the Union, they didn't show anybody wearing the thing, even while saying "and I can send it to the device and look at it there". Almost like they were embarrassed by it, or something...