4 ms·
Worth noting that this may still turn out to be accidental, in the sense that all the bombing activity around it triggered sufficient cracking in the wrong plac
by cwillu 3y ago
Worth noting that this may still turn out to be accidental, in the sense that all the bombing activity around it triggered sufficient cracking in the wrong places that the normal forces (made worse by high water levels) caused a failure.
“That latter point means that, like all concrete structures, concrete dams will crack. These cracks will be tend to be vertical, since the concrete is free to grow and shrink in the vertical dimension, while the canyon it spans is of a fixed dimension. While an arch dam will have the pressure of the water pushing these vertical cracks closed, a gravity dam has no forces acting along its axis--well, except for the temperature changes. The easiest way to deal with this is to provide a known place for the concrete to crack. Therefore, the dam is divided into monoliths, where each monolith is a separately-placed block of concrete that is more or less structurally independent of the monoliths next to it. The dividing lines between monoliths are contraction joints, and will open and close with temperature changes, sometimes quite dramatically. This is the same reason sidewalks are cut into squares and concrete highways have the joints that go "ba-dump" as you drive over them--the concrete will crack, so provide a way to make it crack in a controlled, pretty manner.
[...]
This will hold true for all of the concrete, but once you get to the foundation, it gets a bit tricker. The soil is not a relatively well-controlled material like the concrete. It's typically full of joints and is permeable. At the base of the dam, it's typical to assume that the full pressure of the forebay is acting at the heel and the pressure of the tailwater is acting at the toe. The total force acting upwards is typically pretty large, which is a problem: this pressure will reduce the forces acting on the foundation, and therefore the force squeezing any joints in the rock. If you remember from high school physics, it's typically assumed that frictional forces are proportional to the force squeezing two surfaces together. Therefore, this uplift pressure can reduce these forces enough that a wedge of foundation rock will slide with the dam in a foundation failure. This is the typical cause of failure in a large gravity dam.
I've shown with a dashed line what that uplift pressure would look like under the monolith, if we let it reach its natural state. However, we have some tricks that we can use to dramatically reduce this uplift pressure. I've drawn a grout curtain and foundation drains extending from the bottom of the dam. The grout curtain is a "wall" of portland cement grout, formed by drilling through the bottom of the dam from the drainage gallery and injecting the grout under pressure. It's typically much deeper than I've shown here, as I ran out of room on the paper. This curtain will increase the path length for flow lines, which will primarily serve to reduce the volume of water flowing under the dam.
”
-- “Effort Post: Concrete Gravity Dam” https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,215.msg3582.html https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,215.msg3582.h...
(see also parts II and III at https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,1012.msg19813.html https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,1012.msg19813... and https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,1359.msg31228.html https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,1359.msg31228...)
- cwillu 3y agoNote that I'm not saying this wasn't a missile attack, a deliberate demolition, or whatever, just that it's also possible (from my limited understanding of the engineering) is that this failure mode could simply be caused by simple failure, with the cause of the obviously correlated timing being that the precision attacks performed to damage roads without damaging the dam, caused unseen damage.
- cwillu 3y agoDiscussion of this dam by the author of those posts: https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,5924.msg39559 https://www.datasecretslox.com/index.php/topic,5924.msg39559... “OTOH, what gives me a bit of pause in going "It's a deliberate demolition" is that when I try to wrap my head around a plan for how you'd do this for a dam of this type (concrete gravity dam with spillway and powerhouse using intake sections), it gets to be extremely complicated very quickly. If you just had one huge bomb--and this would include airstrikes as well as a bomb on a truck or suspended from a barge in the forebay--you'd disrupt a couple of monoliths, and then this basically rounds to the same problem I pointed out above: why doesn't the progression stop after the disrupted monoliths slide downstream and the pool starts to drop? But if you wanted to go and do demo on each monolith, that's...a very elaborate operation. Not impossible for a military to conduct, but it's hard for me to believe that it would have escaped notice until now. I'd expect to have seen a bunch of video of Russian soldiers spending weeks putting demo on each monolith, including having drilling rigs out there. People tend to have an overly-optimistic view of how easy it is to do a surreptitious controlled demolition, and it's harder when dealing with a structure that mainly functions by just being so damn heavy that water can't push it downstream--you need to either remove mass or disrupt the structure of the dam long enough for the reservoir to push it out of the way, which either means really big bombs that are probably easily visible, or super-elaborate placement of a bunch of small ones, which is also easily visible.”
- bsagdiyev 3y agoHow does this counter the posts of Russian soldiers claiming to have mined the dam back in December [1] as well as the US Government claiming to have intelligence that says otherwise[2]? It would be mighty stupid of Ukraine to destroy their agricultural output when they appear to be making combat gains... honestly just sound like weapons grade garbage. 1: https://nitter.hu/Gerashchenko_en/status/1666061532080361472#m https://nitter.hu/Gerashchenko_en/status/1666061532080361472... 2: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/khakovka-dam-live-updates-ukraine-russia-blew-up-kherson-rcna87855#rcrd13603 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/khakovka-dam-li...