3 ms·

FYI, “Hispanic/latino” includes a large number people who identify as white. As defined by the Census, these are not mutually exclusive categories.

simplify 3y ago
FYI, "Hispanic/latino" don't identify as white, but they are labeled as such by outsiders for political motivations.
- majormajor 3y ago
  > FYI, "Hispanic/latino" don't identify as white It seems much more accurate to say "people identifying as Hispanic/Latino also identify as white with varying frequency and in varying ways over time and it's complicated also by people of non-white+Hispanic origin." Much more discussion here: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-declaring-themselves-white.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-dec... , https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/should-latinos-be-considered-a-race https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/should-latinos-...
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  There are white Mexicans, black Mexicans, and Indian/mixed Mexicans. I’m not sure if you would consider any of them to be Hispanic/Latino, but the ethnic groups exist in Mexico (and other Latin American countries surely), so isn’t it weird that they are collapsed into one ethnicity in the United States? Maybe some weird aspect of immigration physics I’m not considering? See: - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mexicans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mexicans - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexicans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexicans - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizos_in_Mexico https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizos_in_Mexico
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- smt88 3y ago
  Race is a fuzzy and unscientific concept, and "Hispanic/Latino" is a breathtakingly diverse category to try to fit people in. Some identify as white, some don't.
- next_xibalba 3y ago
  You are way, way off. 20%+ of Hispanic/Latino people in the U.S. identify as white. Feel free to point to data that says otherwise. Source: https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/data/redistricting-supplementary-tables/redistricting-supplementary-table-04.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/data...
  - leereeves 3y ago
    > 20%+ of Hispanic/Latino people in the U.S. identify as white. When asked a question that doesn't have Hispanic as an option. As another comment mentioned, the Biden administration has proposed changing that question (by including a Hispanic option) to better reflect people's identities.
  - simplify 3y ago
    When you're forced to pick your skin color, what else are you supposed to do?
alwayslikethis 3y ago
I think when Hispanic is listed as an option, white usually is changed to mean that you only identify as white, no other ethnicities.
- next_xibalba 3y ago
  You are mostly wrong. The U.S. Census, which is the standard setter in this area, draws a clear distinction between race and ethnicity [1], where ethnicity is defined as Hispanic or Latino, or Not Hispanic or Latino. Any race may identify as either. For example, the Wikipedia to which GP links sources the relevant data from the County Health Rankings (a project run by U of W and Robert Wood Johnson Foundation). The technical documents describe the distinction between Race and Ethnicity, which matches the Census [2]. [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2021/08/improvements-to-2020-census-race-hispanic-origin-question-designs.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2021/... [2] https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/sites/default/files/media/document/2023%20CHRR%20Technical%20Document.pdf https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/sites/default/files/med...
  - roywiggins 3y ago
    The Census' approach has apparently not been ideal for a lot of people, and it looks like it may be changing to just have a combined question for race and ethnicity. The problem is that the Census insists that Latino or Hispanic can only be an ethnicity, which doesn't really match up with a lot of people's experiences. > If approved, the changes would address longstanding difficulties many Latinos have had in answering a question about race that does not include a response option for Hispanic or Latino, which the federal government recognizes only as an ethnicity that can be of any race. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/26/1151608403/mena-race-categories-us-census-middle-eastern-latino-hispanic https://www.npr.org/2023/01/26/1151608403/mena-race-categori... https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1037352177/2020-census-results-by-race-some-other-latino-ethnicity-hispanic https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1037352177/2020-census-result...
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
Assuming the average for white Hispanic is similar to the white population overall, aren't you then implying that the number for non-white Hispanic should be even higher since white Hispanic would be bringing down the average?
brailsafe 3y ago
Almost like race is designed to deliberately stamp out nuanced ethnic and cultural differences in populations of people that are inherently complex.

simplify 3y ago

FYI, "Hispanic/latino" don't identify as white, but they are labeled as such by outsiders for political motivations.

majormajor 3y ago
> FYI, "Hispanic/latino" don't identify as white It seems much more accurate to say "people identifying as Hispanic/Latino also identify as white with varying frequency and in varying ways over time and it's complicated also by people of non-white+Hispanic origin." Much more discussion here: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-declaring-themselves-white.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-dec... , https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/should-latinos-be-considered-a-race https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/should-latinos-...
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
There are white Mexicans, black Mexicans, and Indian/mixed Mexicans. I’m not sure if you would consider any of them to be Hispanic/Latino, but the ethnic groups exist in Mexico (and other Latin American countries surely), so isn’t it weird that they are collapsed into one ethnicity in the United States? Maybe some weird aspect of immigration physics I’m not considering? See: - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mexicans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mexicans - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexicans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Mexicans - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizos_in_Mexico https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizos_in_Mexico
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
smt88 3y ago
Race is a fuzzy and unscientific concept, and "Hispanic/Latino" is a breathtakingly diverse category to try to fit people in. Some identify as white, some don't.
next_xibalba 3y ago
You are way, way off. 20%+ of Hispanic/Latino people in the U.S. identify as white. Feel free to point to data that says otherwise. Source: https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/data/redistricting-supplementary-tables/redistricting-supplementary-table-04.pdf https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/data...
- leereeves 3y ago
  > 20%+ of Hispanic/Latino people in the U.S. identify as white. When asked a question that doesn't have Hispanic as an option. As another comment mentioned, the Biden administration has proposed changing that question (by including a Hispanic option) to better reflect people's identities.
- simplify 3y ago
  When you're forced to pick your skin color, what else are you supposed to do?

alwayslikethis 3y ago

I think when Hispanic is listed as an option, white usually is changed to mean that you only identify as white, no other ethnicities.

next_xibalba 3y ago
You are mostly wrong. The U.S. Census, which is the standard setter in this area, draws a clear distinction between race and ethnicity [1], where ethnicity is defined as Hispanic or Latino, or Not Hispanic or Latino. Any race may identify as either. For example, the Wikipedia to which GP links sources the relevant data from the County Health Rankings (a project run by U of W and Robert Wood Johnson Foundation). The technical documents describe the distinction between Race and Ethnicity, which matches the Census [2]. [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2021/08/improvements-to-2020-census-race-hispanic-origin-question-designs.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2021/... [2] https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/sites/default/files/media/document/2023%20CHRR%20Technical%20Document.pdf https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/sites/default/files/med...
- roywiggins 3y ago
  The Census' approach has apparently not been ideal for a lot of people, and it looks like it may be changing to just have a combined question for race and ethnicity. The problem is that the Census insists that Latino or Hispanic can only be an ethnicity, which doesn't really match up with a lot of people's experiences. > If approved, the changes would address longstanding difficulties many Latinos have had in answering a question about race that does not include a response option for Hispanic or Latino, which the federal government recognizes only as an ethnicity that can be of any race. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/26/1151608403/mena-race-categories-us-census-middle-eastern-latino-hispanic https://www.npr.org/2023/01/26/1151608403/mena-race-categori... https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1037352177/2020-census-results-by-race-some-other-latino-ethnicity-hispanic https://www.npr.org/2021/09/30/1037352177/2020-census-result...

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

Assuming the average for white Hispanic is similar to the white population overall, aren't you then implying that the number for non-white Hispanic should be even higher since white Hispanic would be bringing down the average?

brailsafe 3y ago

Almost like race is designed to deliberately stamp out nuanced ethnic and cultural differences in populations of people that are inherently complex.