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This "unlimited monitor space" is a complete non-selling point for me. Being a wealthy software engineer, my monitor space is not bottlenecked by my budget or

This "unlimited monitor space" is a complete non-selling point for me. Being a wealthy software engineer, my monitor space is not bottlenecked by my budget or desk space, but by my literal neck. Constantly rotating my head back and forth from one monitor to another is, quite literally, a pain. For me the sweet spot is a single curved monitor right in front of me. If I need more "desktop space" I add another Space with Mission Control. And with keyboard shortcuts I can move between Spaces nearly as fast as I can rotate my head around. So what am I going to do with a VR headset if I ever got one? Put the active app straight in front of me just like I do with my normal monitor. I'm not going to put my terminal at some odd angle 25° above my head and crane my head back when I want to run a command in it. I won't put the Weather app 90° to my right, obscuring what is currently a nice picture window looking out on my yard. For me, VR needs that "killer app" to justify the high pricing and inconvenience of use, and I just don't see one yet. I don't expect one any time soon either; if VR was going to get a killer app, it would have shown up by now.

rubicon33 3y ago
Turning your head causes you pain? You need to go to the gym, get in shape, or figure out what the hell is causing a natural motion to induce pain and discomfort.
- kaba0 3y ago
  Sitting is a natural motion and hundreds of millions of people have spine problems from that alone.
  - achenet 3y ago
    sitting is natural. Sitting on a chair, at a desk, staring at a screen, for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and then sitting in your car, and then sitting on your couch and never actually walking anywhere, isn't.
threeseed 3y ago
Most developers don't have mobility issues. They have 2 / 3 large monitors (or laptop + monitor). And so in this case they have the ability to access them anywhere, anytime.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Not wanting to turn your head 90 degrees to see your 13th monitor is not a "mobility issue".
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Or you could not be ridiculous and just use 2 or 3 monitors like everyone does today. At least you have the option to put monitors above and below as well. And completely swap configurations for different use cases e.g. coding versus gaming.
    - zippergz 3y ago
      "Everyone" does not use 2 or 3 monitors. Certainly among the software engineers I interact with regularly (at top US tech companies), having multiple monitors is the minority, not the majority. I agree with the parent that any setup that requires me to turn my head to see all of my screen space is a downgrade, not an upgrade. Even a monitor that's too big (above 30 inches or so at normal desk viewing distance) is bad. If you like it, go for it, but don't act like it's the only or even most common way to work, even for developers.
      - threeseed 3y ago
        I've worked at two out of the FAANG companies and many others. Never seen a workspace in the last decade that didn't either have a laptop and external monitor or multiple monitors. And there has been quite a bit of research [1] on them with 98% of users preferring dual monitors. [1] https://www.ie-uk.com/blog/how-multiple-monitors-affects-productivity-and-wellbeing https://www.ie-uk.com/blog/how-multiple-monitors-affects-pro...
qup 3y ago
Not only swiveling your head around, but doing it with a couple pounds strapped to it. People's necks are going to be swole. That being said, I've always wanted a wearable monitor so I can lay in bed (or stand, or lay in my hammock, or just have some variety). The chair is bad, and I've spent way too many years (literally) in it. I need options. I'm a terminal nerd, though, so I don't care too much about all the 4k etc.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  The ops folks at a company I used to work for tried a VR workspace to put all of their graphs and terminals in a big sphere around you. With 2k screens, the text got too pixelated to read very quickly. 4k should improve that somewhat, but I'm not sure it will be enough for a great text-based workflow.
  - derefr 3y ago
    Was this before the advent of VR headsets that do eye-tracking + foveated rendering? With the tech as it is these days, you're not looking at a rectangle of equally spaced little dots; almost all of "the pixels" are right in front of your pupil, showing you in detail whatever your pupil is trying to focus on.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      For what it's worth, this was with an HTC Vive of some kind. However, the screen pixel densities don't change when you do foveated rendering, it's more of a performance trick - the GPU focuses most of its compute power on what you are looking at.
      - derefr 3y ago
        > the screen pixel densities don't change when you do foveated rendering That's the limited kind of foveated rendering, yes. Apple has a system of lenses on a gimbal inside this thing. Which is precisely what's required to do the (so-far hypothetical) "full" kind of foveated rendering — where you bend the light coming in from a regular-grid-of-pixels panel, to "pull in" 90% of the panel's pixels to where your pupil is, while "stretching out" the last 10% to fill your peripheral vision. Which gives you, perceptually, an irregular grid of pixels, where pixels close to the edge of the screen are very large, while pixels in the center of the screen are very small. The downside to this technique is that, given the mechanical nature of "lenses on a gimbal", they would take a moment to respond to eye-tracking, so you wouldn't be able to immediately resolve full textual detail right away after quickly moving your eyes. Everything would first re-paint just with "virtual" foveated rendering from the eye-tracking update; then gradually re-paint a few hundred more frames in the time it takes the gimbal to get the center of the lens to where your pupil now is. (Alternately, given that they mentioned that the pixels here are 1/8th the size in each dimension, they could have actually created a panel that is dense with tiny pixels in the center, and then sparse with fatter pixels around the edges. They did mention that the panel is "custom Apple silicon", after all. If they did this, they wouldn't have to move the lens, nor even the panel; they could just use a DLP mirror-array to re-orient the light of the chip to your eye, where the system-of-lenses exists to correct for the spherical aberration due to the reflected rays not coming in parallel to one-another.) I'm not sure whether Apple have actually done this, mind you. I'm guessing they actually haven't, since if they had, they'd totally have bragged about it.
zmmmmm 3y ago
Aren't you a case in point then? > the sweet spot is a single curved monitor right in front of me So you can have that. Exactly the right monitor size, curvature, location - in every room of the house, on the train, at work, in the cafe etc. People with ergonomic challenges are, I would have thought, a perfect market for this.
- wtetzner 3y ago
  I think the problem is that the headset still seems too inconvenient to use in all of those locations. I think this stuff will make more sense when these are the same form factor as a normal pair of glasses.
  - zmmmmm 3y ago
    yeah, the friction is key. This is a step forward, I'm sure it'll be amazing that you can just literally put it on and look at your laptop and it pops up as a big screen in front of you. But I think the strap is a barrier. Like you say, glasses form factor is so much better than "strapping" it onto your face. It's rumored Apple has that in its sights for a future model.
- spurgu 3y ago
  Yup, this is the reason why I bought an Oculus Quest 2, to use Immersed[0]. The idea to have a huge multi-monitor setup that I could use on the go - carrying it in my backpack - felt really appealing[1]. With the pandemic I didn't really end up needing it that much, plus I had some lag issues which I never bothered solving (by buying a separate wifi dongle) so my usage never really took off, but the idea was solid. The Oculus headset is a bit heavy/sweaty. Not a dealbreaker per se but with something lighter I could definitely see myself giving it another go. [0] https://immersed.com/ https://immersed.com/ [1] I work on a single 13" laptop, for portability. I like the setup but I do see the benefit of having large screens. It's just that I can't really move them from one place to another so I'd feel crippled on the road.
  - zmmmmm 3y ago
_ea1k 3y ago
I just think you are thinking of the monitors in an overly literal way. Imagine a calendar on the wall, but with your meetings and everything dynamic instead of just a static calendar. And it adjusts to show your next meeting extra large as it approaches. No you see useful information in your periphery. Or perhaps you have application monitoring dashboards on another wall. You don't look at them all the time, but a dedicated space wouldn't be a bad thing. I see a lot of potential here in the future.
- wilsonnb3 3y ago
  A digital calendar on the wall and a dedicated screen for monitoring are both possible with tech from 10 years ago. The problem isn’t “we couldn’t do this before AR and now we can”, it’s “my computer already does calendars and monitoring well enough”.
  - alasdair_ 3y ago
    My windows phone could already do everything an iPhone could do at launch, and in 3g no-less. But there is something to be said about putting it all together well and having it all just work seamlessly.
  - IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
    Until it is superseded. Ask Blackberry.
- pempem 3y ago
  Maybe but every single photo is a person, alone, in a room. While this is the case for a period of life, its certainly not the case for most of it or an end goal.
  - derefr 3y ago
    This is first-and-foremost a tool for doing work. They show people using it in their living rooms, but I get the impression that the key use-case is to use it in a home office (where you'd already be intentionally isolating yourself to get work done) — or in some other room (e.g. a bedroom) to turn it into a home-office-alike space.
specialist 3y ago
Perhaps someone will invent a way to virtually move around within a virtual space. Seems far fetched, I know. But we can still dream.
- thworp 3y ago
  Decoupling virtual from physical movement is the fastest way to get people puking and giving them headaches.
  - specialist 3y ago
    True. Scrolling windows triggers my nausea.
86J8oyZv 3y ago
Also being a wealthy software engineer, there still isn’t a better multi-monitor mobile solution than this at any price point. If you’re only working from home sure, but I like to cowork with friends in a variety of places.
thelittleone 3y ago
But its very handy if you're a wealthy nomadic software engineer. I don't want to take monitors with me and I'd like to travel more while working. I'd like to do that with my 12" Macbook air.
derefr 3y ago
You sound like someone who has a very stable and spacious office. Have you considered that "having more desk space than there is space in the room" is the killer app for many (wealthy!) people who either 1. travel a lot, or 2. live in countries like Hong Kong where space is at a premium?
- dangwhy 3y ago
  That seems like such a narrow subset.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 3y ago
    How about everyone taking a long flight or just staying at a hotel etc? That IMO is where VR glasses are actually a pretty good fit. Carry lightweight laptop through the airport and still get to use a 32” monitor on the go. Granted the current hardware not exactly ideal, but it’s close enough to be a reasonable option.
    - usrusr 3y ago
      Don't underestimate the unwieldy shape of these headsets, they aren't very bag-friendly. The Apple design seems to do some compromises to decrease bulk but it still won't nicely slip between other stuff. Portable displays on the other hand, they are wildly underappreciated because so many still haven't the slightest idea that product category exists. They offer a very favorable bulk/utility trade-off and allow day on day scaling between the extremes of the smallest laptop you can find and what could be considered a mobile workstation.
      - Retric 3y ago
        These devices are currently bulky, but you can easily but them and a a bunch of other stuff into an under seat airline bag. The weight and volume is annoying but not a dealbreaker. Also, I think we can all agree the form factor is likely to improve over time. Portable displays meanwhile have inherent limitations in use ie an airline seat.
delecti 3y ago
Even beyond my neck, the limitation for me is my ability to keep track of the spatial location of that many things, and need to have them all displayed simultaneously. I've really just found the sweet spot to be two displays (with the cost sweet spot for me currently being 1440p, but I imagine 2x4k would be an improvement). Even a third monitor really doesn't improve my ability to do things, so I can't imagine "infinite" impressing either. For me, the main appeal of VR is its potential for gaming, with a distant second place being more broadly "interacting with things in 3d" (such as 3d sculpting/modeling, or something like VR chat).
- intelVISA 3y ago
  don't forget 3d reverse engineering too being able to spatially interact with disasm code inside IDA pro is going to be a game changer for those who like to take a more topological approach to the art
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    You think Hex Rays is going to support Vision Pro? They barely support two dimensions lol
    - intelVISA 3y ago
      :( maybe a nice Ghidra plugin, then?
      - saagarjha 3y ago
        I don't have high hopes for Swing either.
  - semi-extrinsic 3y ago
    You can already spatially interact with 3D content on a regular screen. Thousands of CAD people do it all day for a living, they even have specialised peripherals for 3D navigation like the 3DConnexion stuff.
  - 3y ago
samstave 3y ago
When I worked at Intel in 1997 we bought one of the first 42" plasma screens on the market to put in our game lab - and I put it on my desk and attempted to play Quake and Descent and other games on it and I couldnt handle it so close to me - it had ghosting and bad lag and poor angular visibility and it was $14,999.00 We turned it into a wall piece that rarely got used. in 2016 I got a monitor for one of my OPs guys that was 4k and was ~34" and that was still to big to sit in front of - and my OPs guy gave it to me, I hated it and gave it to an eng, and he loved it. Big screens are for certain people. I have a 70" screen in the living room that I never turn on, my brother uses it exclusively, and I use a 15" laptop as my personal screen.
brookst 3y ago
Why wouldn't you use gestures to move the right monitor to be directly in front if you, maintaining some concept on what's on adjacent ones from UI hints? Really the whole concept of "monitors" feels skeumorphic here. Shouldn't it just be a sphere where you're looking at a concave part with your current app, and can rotate as needed to pull other apps into view?
dumbfounder 3y ago
No one will create the killer app because they won't have enough people to buy it. They aren't going to sell 100 million of these things. They will sell 1 million to prosumers. But you can't make a killer high-end game on a completely new system with completely new features with such a limited market, they would need to sell it everyone to make money. That's the real problem with AR/VR. You need critical mass in the number of users to justify people building mass-market appeal games and apps. The goggles need to not have a cord, be 1/3 as heavy, and 1/4 the price, and then we will get mass adoption. My gut says we are 3 generations away. But it will happen.
- wangii 3y ago
  killer app sells systems, not the other way around.
  - dumbfounder 3y ago
    That’s exactly what I said in a different way. No one will make the killer app because it isn’t economical to do so.
    - shmoe 3y ago
      Yet.
    - nprateem 3y ago
      If there was one to make, Apple would make or subsidise it, guaranteed. Even after reading loads of comments no one can really think of one.
- terafo 3y ago
  Yes, they are going to sell 1 million. In this generation. Next generation will have non pro model. You can sell ten millions of that. It is not going to kill phones, but it will absolutely slaughter laptops. This generation is basically just devkits.
  - 3y ago
abujazar 3y ago
The first question that pops into my head is why you’d work on a curved monitor (of which there still doesn’t exist a high resolution model) as a software engineer. Do you find the workspace on a single curved display sufficient? My primary concern with the Apple headset is the relatively low resolution of 23M pixels. Our eyes can perceive so much more detail, and I’m afraid the low resolution will reintroduce pixellation as is commonly seen on low end and curved displays.
- ehnto 3y ago
  > of which there still doesn’t exist a high resolution model QHD 32" works great, it's not quite two monitors but if you are using a tiling window manager or spend all your time in editor windows it's perfectly practical.
  - abujazar 3y ago
    But the pixels are visible, and text on those displays is so much less legible than on a 200+ ppi display. I simply don’t get how some developers find those monitors to be acceptable and at the same time disregard the Apple headset. Perhaps it’s just lack of vision.
    - ehnto 3y ago
      Maybe you have really great eyesight, or sit a bit too close? I can't see them. I have used retina displays as well and while it's clear there is a difference, it's not a practical difference for me. Retina feels nicer but it's the same amount of UI and text on a screen. 4k in VR is very different though, it's 4k per eye not 4k in dots per inch. 4k in VR will feel like a massive downgrade if you enjoy high DPI screens, but I think it should be usable. The state of the art is 12k I think and for people who like working in VR I see 8k on the pimax as the most common recommendation for good text rendering.
- numpad0 3y ago
  To me, curved monitor makes complete sense. Edges just become too far with flat displays up close.
dustingetz 3y ago
putting it in 3D is also an opportunity to fix window management
- jalk 3y ago
  How so? There have been plenty of 3D window managers and IMO was all just gimmicks, not really contributing to any increase in workflow. Edit:typo
  - bandrami 3y ago
    Scale and Expose both definitely improved workflow
    - diffeomorphism 3y ago
      And both are very much 2D? 3D means something like https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass or https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/task-gallery-3d-window-manager/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/task-gallery-... or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjuPn7MXMs&themeRefresh=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjuPn7MXMs&themeRefresh=1
dclowd9901 3y ago
The killer app imo is AR instruction. That is: - you’re looking at some kind of physical thing in the real world you’re “working on” (whatever it may be) - your goggles are pointing out important aspects, telling you what to do next, etc etc. I always thought something like this for auto repair would be really cool. Of course we need the software to catch up in this regard, since it would have to recognize and overlay fairly complex visual spaces.
- ako 3y ago
  Sports referees could also benefit, instant replay. Once there’s a cheaper, lighter versions you’ll see mums and dads running on the soccer/hockey fields with these.
2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
Real estate costs more than this head set. I am a VR skeptic. But if someone truly solves the problems, a virtual desktop has obvious advantages even for the rich. I could literally clear out one room and shrink the remaining desk to fit a closed laptop, keyboard and coffee mug. And now my entire workstation is portable and exactly the way I want it where ever I go.
- tempnow987 3y ago
  My immediate thought was working on a flight. This guy is like he's got some big curved monitor on his flight. No he doesn't, he's hunched over a laptop screen. If I could work on a flight on a big screen I'd be thrilled. I really don't like the ergonomics of hunching over a laptop screen.
FpUser 3y ago
>"Constantly rotating my head back and forth from one monitor to another is, quite literally, a pain." 60+yo fart here. Same problem as well. After dicking with 3 32" 4K monitor setup a good while ago I am now down to a single monitor. It is still 32" 4K at 100% scale and feels comfy enough.
hogu 3y ago
What if the mapping between your neck angle and screen angle wasn’t 1-1?
- kaba0 3y ago
  Then you would likely become dizzy and puke.
veidr 3y ago
I use 4 monitors arranged on arms to form a shape roughly like a curved 15360x 4320 display. I also don't see how VR will come close to replicating the productivity I have in my home office, on any foreseeable timeline. But when I go somewhere and just use my laptop screen, it's almost laughable how inefficient and annoying it is. The screen is tiny, I am constantly switching apps / virtual desktops, and there is no way to even see my debugger, documentation, and my app running at the same time. To me, that's what I want VR to fix. The portable workspace. For us spoiled rich engineers sitting in our spacious home offices, the constraints that make VR (theoretically) appealing just don't exist. (I'm skeptical there are enough people who want this badly enough to pay $3500 for it to fund an entire product category, though... I expected them to come out talking about fitness and health.)
choppaface 3y ago
You don’t need to turn your neck tho, you can turn the environment. And nothing goes off screen, just out of foveal focus.
mrinterweb 3y ago
Agreed about the non-selling point. I've only ever been able to get my eyes to focus on one thing at a time. So I prefer one monitor. CMD/Alt+tab works for me. If I need to have things side-by-side for some reason I use a window manager and some key combos to quickly rearrange windows. There are very few times that I wish I had another monitor.
sspiff 3y ago
As someone who used to have a cheap-ish 3x27" monitor setup, I can confirm neck strain on big triple monitor setups is most definitely a thing. Imagine combining this with carrying the weight a pair of technogoggles like these,and I think it could get tiresome really quickly.
mruniverse 3y ago
I can see it being nice if it's like Minority Report, where you can swipe small screens away, etc. Talk and it types. Glance to the left to see how the builds are going, etc. It could also be a nice virtual whiteboard. Usually it's hard to know how nice hardware can be without the apps. And you don't have to be in your office.
Grieverheart 3y ago
This. I used to be a multi monitor type of person but when desktop switching became good (I first experienced this in Linux) I started using a single larger monitor and never looked back.
jamesrcole 3y ago
you, or someone in a situation like yours, might at times find it valuable to have like a giant whiteboard in front of you, that you can walk around in front of, and on which you could spatially arrange a bunch of details
netman21 3y ago
It's called Beat Saber. :-)
cultofmetatron 3y ago
I'm a digital nomad. I miss having a spacious multimonitor setup. tried making it work with an occulus quest and immersed VR but the results were disappointing. If they can make it seamless and match the resolution so my eyes don't hurt after a minuite of actually reading code, Its going to be an immediate shutup and take my money moment.

rubicon33 3y ago

Turning your head causes you pain? You need to go to the gym, get in shape, or figure out what the hell is causing a natural motion to induce pain and discomfort.

kaba0 3y ago
Sitting is a natural motion and hundreds of millions of people have spine problems from that alone.
- achenet 3y ago
  sitting is natural. Sitting on a chair, at a desk, staring at a screen, for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and then sitting in your car, and then sitting on your couch and never actually walking anywhere, isn't.

threeseed 3y ago

Most developers don't have mobility issues. They have 2 / 3 large monitors (or laptop + monitor). And so in this case they have the ability to access them anywhere, anytime.

madeofpalk 3y ago
Not wanting to turn your head 90 degrees to see your 13th monitor is not a "mobility issue".
- threeseed 3y ago
  Or you could not be ridiculous and just use 2 or 3 monitors like everyone does today. At least you have the option to put monitors above and below as well. And completely swap configurations for different use cases e.g. coding versus gaming.
  - zippergz 3y ago
    "Everyone" does not use 2 or 3 monitors. Certainly among the software engineers I interact with regularly (at top US tech companies), having multiple monitors is the minority, not the majority. I agree with the parent that any setup that requires me to turn my head to see all of my screen space is a downgrade, not an upgrade. Even a monitor that's too big (above 30 inches or so at normal desk viewing distance) is bad. If you like it, go for it, but don't act like it's the only or even most common way to work, even for developers.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      I've worked at two out of the FAANG companies and many others. Never seen a workspace in the last decade that didn't either have a laptop and external monitor or multiple monitors. And there has been quite a bit of research [1] on them with 98% of users preferring dual monitors. [1] https://www.ie-uk.com/blog/how-multiple-monitors-affects-productivity-and-wellbeing https://www.ie-uk.com/blog/how-multiple-monitors-affects-pro...

qup 3y ago

Not only swiveling your head around, but doing it with a couple pounds strapped to it. People's necks are going to be swole. That being said, I've always wanted a wearable monitor so I can lay in bed (or stand, or lay in my hammock, or just have some variety). The chair is bad, and I've spent way too many years (literally) in it. I need options. I'm a terminal nerd, though, so I don't care too much about all the 4k etc.

pclmulqdq 3y ago
The ops folks at a company I used to work for tried a VR workspace to put all of their graphs and terminals in a big sphere around you. With 2k screens, the text got too pixelated to read very quickly. 4k should improve that somewhat, but I'm not sure it will be enough for a great text-based workflow.
- derefr 3y ago
  Was this before the advent of VR headsets that do eye-tracking + foveated rendering? With the tech as it is these days, you're not looking at a rectangle of equally spaced little dots; almost all of "the pixels" are right in front of your pupil, showing you in detail whatever your pupil is trying to focus on.
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    For what it's worth, this was with an HTC Vive of some kind. However, the screen pixel densities don't change when you do foveated rendering, it's more of a performance trick - the GPU focuses most of its compute power on what you are looking at.
    - derefr 3y ago
      > the screen pixel densities don't change when you do foveated rendering That's the limited kind of foveated rendering, yes. Apple has a system of lenses on a gimbal inside this thing. Which is precisely what's required to do the (so-far hypothetical) "full" kind of foveated rendering — where you bend the light coming in from a regular-grid-of-pixels panel, to "pull in" 90% of the panel's pixels to where your pupil is, while "stretching out" the last 10% to fill your peripheral vision. Which gives you, perceptually, an irregular grid of pixels, where pixels close to the edge of the screen are very large, while pixels in the center of the screen are very small. The downside to this technique is that, given the mechanical nature of "lenses on a gimbal", they would take a moment to respond to eye-tracking, so you wouldn't be able to immediately resolve full textual detail right away after quickly moving your eyes. Everything would first re-paint just with "virtual" foveated rendering from the eye-tracking update; then gradually re-paint a few hundred more frames in the time it takes the gimbal to get the center of the lens to where your pupil now is. (Alternately, given that they mentioned that the pixels here are 1/8th the size in each dimension, they could have actually created a panel that is dense with tiny pixels in the center, and then sparse with fatter pixels around the edges. They did mention that the panel is "custom Apple silicon", after all. If they did this, they wouldn't have to move the lens, nor even the panel; they could just use a DLP mirror-array to re-orient the light of the chip to your eye, where the system-of-lenses exists to correct for the spherical aberration due to the reflected rays not coming in parallel to one-another.) I'm not sure whether Apple have actually done this, mind you. I'm guessing they actually haven't, since if they had, they'd totally have bragged about it.

zmmmmm 3y ago

Aren't you a case in point then? > the sweet spot is a single curved monitor right in front of me So you can have that. Exactly the right monitor size, curvature, location - in every room of the house, on the train, at work, in the cafe etc. People with ergonomic challenges are, I would have thought, a perfect market for this.

wtetzner 3y ago
I think the problem is that the headset still seems too inconvenient to use in all of those locations. I think this stuff will make more sense when these are the same form factor as a normal pair of glasses.
- zmmmmm 3y ago
  yeah, the friction is key. This is a step forward, I'm sure it'll be amazing that you can just literally put it on and look at your laptop and it pops up as a big screen in front of you. But I think the strap is a barrier. Like you say, glasses form factor is so much better than "strapping" it onto your face. It's rumored Apple has that in its sights for a future model.
spurgu 3y ago
Yup, this is the reason why I bought an Oculus Quest 2, to use Immersed[0]. The idea to have a huge multi-monitor setup that I could use on the go - carrying it in my backpack - felt really appealing[1]. With the pandemic I didn't really end up needing it that much, plus I had some lag issues which I never bothered solving (by buying a separate wifi dongle) so my usage never really took off, but the idea was solid. The Oculus headset is a bit heavy/sweaty. Not a dealbreaker per se but with something lighter I could definitely see myself giving it another go. [0] https://immersed.com/ https://immersed.com/ [1] I work on a single 13" laptop, for portability. I like the setup but I do see the benefit of having large screens. It's just that I can't really move them from one place to another so I'd feel crippled on the road.
- zmmmmm 3y ago

_ea1k 3y ago

I just think you are thinking of the monitors in an overly literal way. Imagine a calendar on the wall, but with your meetings and everything dynamic instead of just a static calendar. And it adjusts to show your next meeting extra large as it approaches. No you see useful information in your periphery. Or perhaps you have application monitoring dashboards on another wall. You don't look at them all the time, but a dedicated space wouldn't be a bad thing. I see a lot of potential here in the future.

wilsonnb3 3y ago
A digital calendar on the wall and a dedicated screen for monitoring are both possible with tech from 10 years ago. The problem isn’t “we couldn’t do this before AR and now we can”, it’s “my computer already does calendars and monitoring well enough”.
- alasdair_ 3y ago
  My windows phone could already do everything an iPhone could do at launch, and in 3g no-less. But there is something to be said about putting it all together well and having it all just work seamlessly.
- IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
  Until it is superseded. Ask Blackberry.
pempem 3y ago
Maybe but every single photo is a person, alone, in a room. While this is the case for a period of life, its certainly not the case for most of it or an end goal.
- derefr 3y ago
  This is first-and-foremost a tool for doing work. They show people using it in their living rooms, but I get the impression that the key use-case is to use it in a home office (where you'd already be intentionally isolating yourself to get work done) — or in some other room (e.g. a bedroom) to turn it into a home-office-alike space.

specialist 3y ago

Perhaps someone will invent a way to virtually move around within a virtual space. Seems far fetched, I know. But we can still dream.

thworp 3y ago
Decoupling virtual from physical movement is the fastest way to get people puking and giving them headaches.
- specialist 3y ago
  True. Scrolling windows triggers my nausea.

86J8oyZv 3y ago

Also being a wealthy software engineer, there still isn’t a better multi-monitor mobile solution than this at any price point. If you’re only working from home sure, but I like to cowork with friends in a variety of places.

thelittleone 3y ago

But its very handy if you're a wealthy nomadic software engineer. I don't want to take monitors with me and I'd like to travel more while working. I'd like to do that with my 12" Macbook air.

derefr 3y ago

You sound like someone who has a very stable and spacious office. Have you considered that "having more desk space than there is space in the room" is the killer app for many (wealthy!) people who either 1. travel a lot, or 2. live in countries like Hong Kong where space is at a premium?

dangwhy 3y ago
That seems like such a narrow subset.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 3y ago
  How about everyone taking a long flight or just staying at a hotel etc? That IMO is where VR glasses are actually a pretty good fit. Carry lightweight laptop through the airport and still get to use a 32” monitor on the go. Granted the current hardware not exactly ideal, but it’s close enough to be a reasonable option.
  - usrusr 3y ago
    Don't underestimate the unwieldy shape of these headsets, they aren't very bag-friendly. The Apple design seems to do some compromises to decrease bulk but it still won't nicely slip between other stuff. Portable displays on the other hand, they are wildly underappreciated because so many still haven't the slightest idea that product category exists. They offer a very favorable bulk/utility trade-off and allow day on day scaling between the extremes of the smallest laptop you can find and what could be considered a mobile workstation.
    - Retric 3y ago
      These devices are currently bulky, but you can easily but them and a a bunch of other stuff into an under seat airline bag. The weight and volume is annoying but not a dealbreaker. Also, I think we can all agree the form factor is likely to improve over time. Portable displays meanwhile have inherent limitations in use ie an airline seat.

delecti 3y ago

Even beyond my neck, the limitation for me is my ability to keep track of the spatial location of that many things, and need to have them all displayed simultaneously. I've really just found the sweet spot to be two displays (with the cost sweet spot for me currently being 1440p, but I imagine 2x4k would be an improvement). Even a third monitor really doesn't improve my ability to do things, so I can't imagine "infinite" impressing either. For me, the main appeal of VR is its potential for gaming, with a distant second place being more broadly "interacting with things in 3d" (such as 3d sculpting/modeling, or something like VR chat).

intelVISA 3y ago
don't forget 3d reverse engineering too being able to spatially interact with disasm code inside IDA pro is going to be a game changer for those who like to take a more topological approach to the art
- saagarjha 3y ago
  You think Hex Rays is going to support Vision Pro? They barely support two dimensions lol
  - intelVISA 3y ago
    :( maybe a nice Ghidra plugin, then?
    - saagarjha 3y ago
      I don't have high hopes for Swing either.
- semi-extrinsic 3y ago
  You can already spatially interact with 3D content on a regular screen. Thousands of CAD people do it all day for a living, they even have specialised peripherals for 3D navigation like the 3DConnexion stuff.
- 3y ago

samstave 3y ago

When I worked at Intel in 1997 we bought one of the first 42" plasma screens on the market to put in our game lab - and I put it on my desk and attempted to play Quake and Descent and other games on it and I couldnt handle it so close to me - it had ghosting and bad lag and poor angular visibility and it was $14,999.00 We turned it into a wall piece that rarely got used. in 2016 I got a monitor for one of my OPs guys that was 4k and was ~34" and that was still to big to sit in front of - and my OPs guy gave it to me, I hated it and gave it to an eng, and he loved it. Big screens are for certain people. I have a 70" screen in the living room that I never turn on, my brother uses it exclusively, and I use a 15" laptop as my personal screen.

brookst 3y ago

Why wouldn't you use gestures to move the right monitor to be directly in front if you, maintaining some concept on what's on adjacent ones from UI hints? Really the whole concept of "monitors" feels skeumorphic here. Shouldn't it just be a sphere where you're looking at a concave part with your current app, and can rotate as needed to pull other apps into view?

dumbfounder 3y ago

No one will create the killer app because they won't have enough people to buy it. They aren't going to sell 100 million of these things. They will sell 1 million to prosumers. But you can't make a killer high-end game on a completely new system with completely new features with such a limited market, they would need to sell it everyone to make money. That's the real problem with AR/VR. You need critical mass in the number of users to justify people building mass-market appeal games and apps. The goggles need to not have a cord, be 1/3 as heavy, and 1/4 the price, and then we will get mass adoption. My gut says we are 3 generations away. But it will happen.

wangii 3y ago
killer app sells systems, not the other way around.
- dumbfounder 3y ago
  That’s exactly what I said in a different way. No one will make the killer app because it isn’t economical to do so.
  - shmoe 3y ago
    Yet.
  - nprateem 3y ago
    If there was one to make, Apple would make or subsidise it, guaranteed. Even after reading loads of comments no one can really think of one.
terafo 3y ago
Yes, they are going to sell 1 million. In this generation. Next generation will have non pro model. You can sell ten millions of that. It is not going to kill phones, but it will absolutely slaughter laptops. This generation is basically just devkits.
- 3y ago

abujazar 3y ago

The first question that pops into my head is why you’d work on a curved monitor (of which there still doesn’t exist a high resolution model) as a software engineer. Do you find the workspace on a single curved display sufficient? My primary concern with the Apple headset is the relatively low resolution of 23M pixels. Our eyes can perceive so much more detail, and I’m afraid the low resolution will reintroduce pixellation as is commonly seen on low end and curved displays.

ehnto 3y ago
> of which there still doesn’t exist a high resolution model QHD 32" works great, it's not quite two monitors but if you are using a tiling window manager or spend all your time in editor windows it's perfectly practical.
- abujazar 3y ago
  But the pixels are visible, and text on those displays is so much less legible than on a 200+ ppi display. I simply don’t get how some developers find those monitors to be acceptable and at the same time disregard the Apple headset. Perhaps it’s just lack of vision.
  - ehnto 3y ago
    Maybe you have really great eyesight, or sit a bit too close? I can't see them. I have used retina displays as well and while it's clear there is a difference, it's not a practical difference for me. Retina feels nicer but it's the same amount of UI and text on a screen. 4k in VR is very different though, it's 4k per eye not 4k in dots per inch. 4k in VR will feel like a massive downgrade if you enjoy high DPI screens, but I think it should be usable. The state of the art is 12k I think and for people who like working in VR I see 8k on the pimax as the most common recommendation for good text rendering.
numpad0 3y ago
To me, curved monitor makes complete sense. Edges just become too far with flat displays up close.

dustingetz 3y ago

putting it in 3D is also an opportunity to fix window management

jalk 3y ago
How so? There have been plenty of 3D window managers and IMO was all just gimmicks, not really contributing to any increase in workflow. Edit:typo
- bandrami 3y ago
  Scale and Expose both definitely improved workflow
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    And both are very much 2D? 3D means something like https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass or https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/task-gallery-3d-window-manager/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/task-gallery-... or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjuPn7MXMs&themeRefresh=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjuPn7MXMs&themeRefresh=1

dclowd9901 3y ago

The killer app imo is AR instruction. That is: - you’re looking at some kind of physical thing in the real world you’re “working on” (whatever it may be) - your goggles are pointing out important aspects, telling you what to do next, etc etc. I always thought something like this for auto repair would be really cool. Of course we need the software to catch up in this regard, since it would have to recognize and overlay fairly complex visual spaces.

ako 3y ago
Sports referees could also benefit, instant replay. Once there’s a cheaper, lighter versions you’ll see mums and dads running on the soccer/hockey fields with these.

2muchcoffeeman 3y ago

Real estate costs more than this head set. I am a VR skeptic. But if someone truly solves the problems, a virtual desktop has obvious advantages even for the rich. I could literally clear out one room and shrink the remaining desk to fit a closed laptop, keyboard and coffee mug. And now my entire workstation is portable and exactly the way I want it where ever I go.

tempnow987 3y ago
My immediate thought was working on a flight. This guy is like he's got some big curved monitor on his flight. No he doesn't, he's hunched over a laptop screen. If I could work on a flight on a big screen I'd be thrilled. I really don't like the ergonomics of hunching over a laptop screen.

FpUser 3y ago

>"Constantly rotating my head back and forth from one monitor to another is, quite literally, a pain." 60+yo fart here. Same problem as well. After dicking with 3 32" 4K monitor setup a good while ago I am now down to a single monitor. It is still 32" 4K at 100% scale and feels comfy enough.

hogu 3y ago

What if the mapping between your neck angle and screen angle wasn’t 1-1?

kaba0 3y ago
Then you would likely become dizzy and puke.

veidr 3y ago

I use 4 monitors arranged on arms to form a shape roughly like a curved 15360x 4320 display. I also don't see how VR will come close to replicating the productivity I have in my home office, on any foreseeable timeline. But when I go somewhere and just use my laptop screen, it's almost laughable how inefficient and annoying it is. The screen is tiny, I am constantly switching apps / virtual desktops, and there is no way to even see my debugger, documentation, and my app running at the same time. To me, that's what I want VR to fix. The portable workspace. For us spoiled rich engineers sitting in our spacious home offices, the constraints that make VR (theoretically) appealing just don't exist. (I'm skeptical there are enough people who want this badly enough to pay $3500 for it to fund an entire product category, though... I expected them to come out talking about fitness and health.)

choppaface 3y ago

You don’t need to turn your neck tho, you can turn the environment. And nothing goes off screen, just out of foveal focus.

mrinterweb 3y ago

Agreed about the non-selling point. I've only ever been able to get my eyes to focus on one thing at a time. So I prefer one monitor. CMD/Alt+tab works for me. If I need to have things side-by-side for some reason I use a window manager and some key combos to quickly rearrange windows. There are very few times that I wish I had another monitor.

sspiff 3y ago

As someone who used to have a cheap-ish 3x27" monitor setup, I can confirm neck strain on big triple monitor setups is most definitely a thing. Imagine combining this with carrying the weight a pair of technogoggles like these,and I think it could get tiresome really quickly.

mruniverse 3y ago

I can see it being nice if it's like Minority Report, where you can swipe small screens away, etc. Talk and it types. Glance to the left to see how the builds are going, etc. It could also be a nice virtual whiteboard. Usually it's hard to know how nice hardware can be without the apps. And you don't have to be in your office.

Grieverheart 3y ago

This. I used to be a multi monitor type of person but when desktop switching became good (I first experienced this in Linux) I started using a single larger monitor and never looked back.

jamesrcole 3y ago

you, or someone in a situation like yours, might at times find it valuable to have like a giant whiteboard in front of you, that you can walk around in front of, and on which you could spatially arrange a bunch of details

netman21 3y ago

It's called Beat Saber. :-)

cultofmetatron 3y ago

I'm a digital nomad. I miss having a spacious multimonitor setup. tried making it work with an occulus quest and immersed VR but the results were disappointing. If they can make it seamless and match the resolution so my eyes don't hurt after a minuite of actually reading code, Its going to be an immediate shutup and take my money moment.