4 ms·

I doubt the real number believing that is half the public, or even half the voting public. Certainly a fair number, maybe not the majority, but at least a sizab

by ssharp 3y ago

I doubt the real number believing that is half the public, or even half the voting public. Certainly a fair number, maybe not the majority, but at least a sizable chunk, of Republicans don't believe the stolen election theories.

scarface_74 3y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republicans-increasingly-realize-theres-no-evidence-of-election-fraud-but-most-still-think-2020-election-was-stolen-anyway-poll-finds/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republi...
spacemadness 3y ago
All I have is gut feel, but I agree. If half the public truly believed the election was rigged, then we’re a pathetic lot for not being out in the streets daily raising hell in protest. People just say it without believing it. The Jan 6th folks believed it, but there has been nothing since.
- ribosometronome 3y ago
  Isn't that more or less what happened in 2000, with little to show for it? It all coming down to a confusing ballot in a state run by one of the candidate's brother's, the recounts were ordered stopped, and later analysis showed full recounts would actually have given Gore the state & presidency.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    There is no equivalence. They had recounts in multiple states before the election was decided and each case, Biden won by more votes - including my former home state GA where there was a Republican governor and a Republican Secretary of State that stood up to the foolishness. There were no mass protest and certainly no invasion of the Capital. Gore didn’t spend years complaining. He ceded the election and moved on.
krapp 3y ago
"Half the country" is what Trump supporters claim the size of their membership is. It's propaganda based on a purposeful misrepresentation of the fact that about about half of the public who voted in 2016 voted for Trump. They like to use it when making veiled neo-revolutionary threats against "the left" or "city dwellers" or whatever group they feel doesn't show them enough respect at that moment, or to overstate the legitimacy and influence of their movement within the public at large. At some point, "half the country" simply evolved within common parlance into shorthand for Trumpists and Republicans in general. An unfortunate side effect of this is that it's also useful among the left, who should know better, when used unironically to make Trumpism into a bigger monster than it is. Of course, nowhere near half the country even voted at all, and of those who voted, a slightly bigger half voted for Hillary Clinton. But Trumpism demonstrates that minority movements can still have influence when they grab power, even if they can't really claim a mandate. That a significant fraction of Republicans either believe the election was stolen or believe claiming such is necessary to maintain power is still troubling.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  This is what the polls say about who believed the “election was stolen”. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republicans-increasingly-realize-theres-no-evidence-of-election-fraud-but-most-still-think-2020-election-was-stolen-anyway-poll-finds/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republi...
  - IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
    What social media has painfully exposed is the level of gullibility within all societies globally. And political opportunism has been utilizing this to bad ends. “Classic Media” today, is busy pushing the narratives of whacky billionaires/corporations as a general undercurrent. 1) Work in the office is better than remote. 2) National healthcare can’t work in the US, only in every other industrialized nation. 3) wealthy people are geniuses & you should read the books they read and listen to them about everything. 4) progressives are evil, conservatives are evil. 5) Ignore the military industrial complex, keep feeding the military budget. 6) homelessness can’t be solved. 7) Support the Troops! But once they are veterans ignore them to the bureaucracy of the hellhole of veterans affairs. 8) Authoritarianism in government is alarming but there is nothing to be done.
tracker1 3y ago
Even then, it's also down to the interpretation of "stolen" ... does a "cabal" of journalists and technologists working to "defend the election" by shaping the news and opinion stories that get spread vs stopped count? Does changing election practice in violation of a state's constitution count? It's also worth considering it isn't even just one side, in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her. Note: I was working for an election services company over the 2020 election cycle and saw coworkers and even myself seeing death threats. I still think there were a lot of at least suspicious things across the country. In the end, the lack of trust in media/news and the government is pretty well deserved all around.
- klyrs 3y ago
  > in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her. Not all has-been losers are treated equally. The so-called leftist media has not taken up her claim; the democrat base has not taken up her claim; I've heard of no serious democratic candidates running on her claim. So when you say it isn't just one side, you're comparing a mountain to a molehill.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    Well, left leaning media sites her claims without any dispute. That hasn't been the same for Trump's claims. Especially considering YouTube's censorship in the mix in terms of coverage.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  > It's also worth considering it isn't even just one side, in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her. Hilary made jokes about it for sure. Trump sounded like he wasn’t joking. Maybe libs just can’t get his joking style. Half of the country doesn’t trust the other half, and Vice versa. That’s mostly the problem right there (they trust their media but not the othersides, they trust their election officials but not the othersides, well, except in Georgia).
- photonerd 3y ago
  > in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her That’s just a straight up lie. Or—being charitable—a shameless false equivalence. She repeated the (proven) fact that there was widespread Russian involvement in promoting her opposition & a disinformation campaign.

by ssharp 3y ago

scarface_74 3y ago

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republicans-increasingly-realize-theres-no-evidence-of-election-fraud-but-most-still-think-2020-election-was-stolen-anyway-poll-finds/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republi...

spacemadness 3y ago

All I have is gut feel, but I agree. If half the public truly believed the election was rigged, then we’re a pathetic lot for not being out in the streets daily raising hell in protest. People just say it without believing it. The Jan 6th folks believed it, but there has been nothing since.

ribosometronome 3y ago
Isn't that more or less what happened in 2000, with little to show for it? It all coming down to a confusing ballot in a state run by one of the candidate's brother's, the recounts were ordered stopped, and later analysis showed full recounts would actually have given Gore the state & presidency.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  There is no equivalence. They had recounts in multiple states before the election was decided and each case, Biden won by more votes - including my former home state GA where there was a Republican governor and a Republican Secretary of State that stood up to the foolishness. There were no mass protest and certainly no invasion of the Capital. Gore didn’t spend years complaining. He ceded the election and moved on.

krapp 3y ago

"Half the country" is what Trump supporters claim the size of their membership is. It's propaganda based on a purposeful misrepresentation of the fact that about about half of the public who voted in 2016 voted for Trump. They like to use it when making veiled neo-revolutionary threats against "the left" or "city dwellers" or whatever group they feel doesn't show them enough respect at that moment, or to overstate the legitimacy and influence of their movement within the public at large. At some point, "half the country" simply evolved within common parlance into shorthand for Trumpists and Republicans in general. An unfortunate side effect of this is that it's also useful among the left, who should know better, when used unironically to make Trumpism into a bigger monster than it is. Of course, nowhere near half the country even voted at all, and of those who voted, a slightly bigger half voted for Hillary Clinton. But Trumpism demonstrates that minority movements can still have influence when they grab power, even if they can't really claim a mandate. That a significant fraction of Republicans either believe the election was stolen or believe claiming such is necessary to maintain power is still troubling.

scarface_74 3y ago
This is what the polls say about who believed the “election was stolen”. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republicans-increasingly-realize-theres-no-evidence-of-election-fraud-but-most-still-think-2020-election-was-stolen-anyway-poll-finds/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republi...
- IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
  What social media has painfully exposed is the level of gullibility within all societies globally. And political opportunism has been utilizing this to bad ends. “Classic Media” today, is busy pushing the narratives of whacky billionaires/corporations as a general undercurrent. 1) Work in the office is better than remote. 2) National healthcare can’t work in the US, only in every other industrialized nation. 3) wealthy people are geniuses & you should read the books they read and listen to them about everything. 4) progressives are evil, conservatives are evil. 5) Ignore the military industrial complex, keep feeding the military budget. 6) homelessness can’t be solved. 7) Support the Troops! But once they are veterans ignore them to the bureaucracy of the hellhole of veterans affairs. 8) Authoritarianism in government is alarming but there is nothing to be done.

tracker1 3y ago

Even then, it's also down to the interpretation of "stolen" ... does a "cabal" of journalists and technologists working to "defend the election" by shaping the news and opinion stories that get spread vs stopped count? Does changing election practice in violation of a state's constitution count? It's also worth considering it isn't even just one side, in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her. Note: I was working for an election services company over the 2020 election cycle and saw coworkers and even myself seeing death threats. I still think there were a lot of at least suspicious things across the country. In the end, the lack of trust in media/news and the government is pretty well deserved all around.

klyrs 3y ago
> in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her. Not all has-been losers are treated equally. The so-called leftist media has not taken up her claim; the democrat base has not taken up her claim; I've heard of no serious democratic candidates running on her claim. So when you say it isn't just one side, you're comparing a mountain to a molehill.
- tracker1 3y ago
  Well, left leaning media sites her claims without any dispute. That hasn't been the same for Trump's claims. Especially considering YouTube's censorship in the mix in terms of coverage.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> It's also worth considering it isn't even just one side, in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her. Hilary made jokes about it for sure. Trump sounded like he wasn’t joking. Maybe libs just can’t get his joking style. Half of the country doesn’t trust the other half, and Vice versa. That’s mostly the problem right there (they trust their media but not the othersides, they trust their election officials but not the othersides, well, except in Georgia).
photonerd 3y ago
> in 2019-2020 Hillary was still saying the election was stolen from her That’s just a straight up lie. Or—being charitable—a shameless false equivalence. She repeated the (proven) fact that there was widespread Russian involvement in promoting her opposition & a disinformation campaign.