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I know this has been talked about ad nauseum but the new Intel Alderlake CPU are really good and low power consumption. Recently got one with a N100 with remova

I know this has been talked about ad nauseum but the new Intel Alderlake CPU are really good and low power consumption. Recently got one with a N100 with removable 16GB of RAM 500 SSD and and it’s been an absolute workhorse. You can get a N5105 for about a Rpi 4 8GB price as well.

jabbany 3y ago
Wait how do you get a N5105 at $75? The lowest I've seen still go for over $100 and they're barebones units. x86 pricing is getting down to ARM SBC levels for sure, especially considering the recent rounds of decomissioning older non-Win 11 prebuilt mini boxes, but AFAIK it's not there yet.
- syntaxing 3y ago
  It’s annoying but for whatever reason these vendors have special coupons randomly on their direct site or clip and save on Amazon (but there’s 50 listings for the same product so you have to get lucky). I got a N5105 with 16/256 for $130 shipped. Cheaper brands like ace magician has them at them at the cusp of $100.
- phamilton4 3y ago
  I haven't been able to find them for cheaper than say ~$120 USD. I purchased two "GMKtec Mini PC Windows 11 Pro Intel 11th Gen N5105" on amazon for $115 each after a coupon. These are the 8GB Memory and 128GB SSD version. I'm okay with that price for an x86 CPU (even though it doesn't support AVX). There are a few other brands you can find out there with either a N5095 or N5105 (Alibaba even had 16GB memory versions).
  - jabbany 3y ago
    Right, but an 8G RPi is $75 MSRP, so this is over a 30% - 50% higher cost! For most projects that really _need_ a Pi (for the GPIO, CSI etc.), most don't require the 8G version, and you can get by with a 2 or 4G which is closer to $50 or less. If the goal is compute/$ (or for that matter, compute/W) though, Pis are nowhere near being the most efficient for that and haven't been for years.
megous 3y ago
What's the real power consumption under full load and idle?
- syntaxing 3y ago
  I use mine with OPNSense so it’s hard to say since it never really idles. But a N100 has a 6W TDP to begin with. I draw about 12W peak (the fan is what kills) and 7W nominal.
  - megous 3y ago
    CPU TDP does not have much to do with power consumption of the complete product. Anyway, those numbers seem to be comparable to high performance ARM boards. Compared to boards in Raspberry Pi's ~$50 range, that idle power consumption is still about 5x higher than those 7W on Intel N100. N100 is also a bit pricier than N5105.
    - syntaxing 3y ago
      My real world usage for a Rpi 4 is pretty close to 5W nominal, 8W peak (but I do run a zigbee/zwave and NVMe ssd). My Zero W is pretty close to 2.5W but it’s overclocked. I’m pretty sure you can underclock the CPU and RAM, and under voltage the RAM, and you’ll get very close numbers to a Rpi. Has to be a N100 though, didn’t look into but a N95 is significantly more inefficient
      - megous 3y ago
        Then Rpi4 is very inefficient even compare to other ARM boards. RK3399 based boards idle at 1.7W or ~1.2W with a binary blob TF-A firmware and suspend to 200mW. My Allwinner H3 based boards idle at similar power levels and I haven't measured suspend to RAM. On A64, suspend is ~60mW and is fast so it can be used regularly and you can wakeup the board in response to work being needed.
- geerlingguy 3y ago
  The 4x 2.5 GbE model I have draws 7-8W idle, 12-18W under load, add 1W per active network port. The Pi draws considerably less at idle, so could be worth it if you just have light or small bursts workloads and don't need the performance.
magicalhippo 3y ago
I just ordered a N100 unit too after I saw this[1] Reddit post about doing 7x 1080p transcode streams without sweating. There are some variants around, some with multiple NICs like this[1] ridiculously tiny thing sporting a N5095, some with a 2.5GbE port etc. I picked up this[3], but haven't received it yet so can't vouch. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/11u30jx/inteln100_6w_tdp_alder_lake_only_e_cores_doing_7x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/11u30jx/inteln100_6w_... [2]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005461064337.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005461064337.html [3]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142509880.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142509880.html
- syntaxing 3y ago
  I think you’re gonna love it, mine has a dual 2.5G Intel NIC. If I had to do it again, I might prefer the fanless CWWK ones with 4 NICs so I can do a LAGG or increase my bandwidth to my switch. A bit more expensive but more rugged and suitable for my application.
gorkish 3y ago
It really bothers me that ZERO of these mini PCs offer 10/25gbe or at least a single small PCIe slot to add it. They would be a dream for clustered storage...
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  They have limited PCIe lanes. The N100 I ordered has a 2.5GbE and from what I can see only a x2 M.2 M-key slot. However that should be sufficient for a 10G adapter, so while perhaps janky you could try to fit one of these[1] in there. Will have to resort to the 2242 M.2 SATA slot for storage though, or the USB ports. [1]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005065403928.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005065403928.html
- bayindirh 3y ago
  LattePanda has PCIe slots, if you prefer: https://www.lattepanda.com/blog-308782.html https://www.lattepanda.com/blog-308782.html 2.5gBE devices are also becoming more mainstream (Like Orange Pi 5 Plus, Radxa Rock 5). The main problem is not the interface in most cases, but the internal bandwidth on these boards. I'll be spinning up an Orange Pi 5 with 8GB of RAM as a home server shortly. Let's see how it goes.
  - gorkish 3y ago
    I'm not really talking about the little "Pi-class" ARM SOC boards, but more the "edge compute" type hardware market that might be served by a small stack of NUCs. The internal bus on the Pi's SoC maxes out at 3.6gbps; it's clearly a non-starter for a high-IO project, but there are plenty that would be highly serviceable.
- syntaxing 3y ago
  It’ll be tough because you would need a dedicated PCIe x4 bus and above. I’m not sure many of these low power CPU would support that on top of supporting a SATA bus. Zimaboard has a PCIe expansion slot but it’s limited to 6.0 Gbps (guessing they use the rest of the bandwidth for something else like storage). You can increase your bandwidth if you have a multiple NIC computer though. You can tie in 2X 2.5Gbps to get about 4 Gbps to your switch. Edit: assuming you mean 25G and not 2.5G?

jabbany 3y ago

Wait how do you get a N5105 at $75? The lowest I've seen still go for over $100 and they're barebones units. x86 pricing is getting down to ARM SBC levels for sure, especially considering the recent rounds of decomissioning older non-Win 11 prebuilt mini boxes, but AFAIK it's not there yet.

syntaxing 3y ago
It’s annoying but for whatever reason these vendors have special coupons randomly on their direct site or clip and save on Amazon (but there’s 50 listings for the same product so you have to get lucky). I got a N5105 with 16/256 for $130 shipped. Cheaper brands like ace magician has them at them at the cusp of $100.
phamilton4 3y ago
I haven't been able to find them for cheaper than say ~$120 USD. I purchased two "GMKtec Mini PC Windows 11 Pro Intel 11th Gen N5105" on amazon for $115 each after a coupon. These are the 8GB Memory and 128GB SSD version. I'm okay with that price for an x86 CPU (even though it doesn't support AVX). There are a few other brands you can find out there with either a N5095 or N5105 (Alibaba even had 16GB memory versions).
- jabbany 3y ago
  Right, but an 8G RPi is $75 MSRP, so this is over a 30% - 50% higher cost! For most projects that really _need_ a Pi (for the GPIO, CSI etc.), most don't require the 8G version, and you can get by with a 2 or 4G which is closer to $50 or less. If the goal is compute/$ (or for that matter, compute/W) though, Pis are nowhere near being the most efficient for that and haven't been for years.

megous 3y ago

What's the real power consumption under full load and idle?

syntaxing 3y ago
I use mine with OPNSense so it’s hard to say since it never really idles. But a N100 has a 6W TDP to begin with. I draw about 12W peak (the fan is what kills) and 7W nominal.
- megous 3y ago
  CPU TDP does not have much to do with power consumption of the complete product. Anyway, those numbers seem to be comparable to high performance ARM boards. Compared to boards in Raspberry Pi's ~$50 range, that idle power consumption is still about 5x higher than those 7W on Intel N100. N100 is also a bit pricier than N5105.
  - syntaxing 3y ago
    My real world usage for a Rpi 4 is pretty close to 5W nominal, 8W peak (but I do run a zigbee/zwave and NVMe ssd). My Zero W is pretty close to 2.5W but it’s overclocked. I’m pretty sure you can underclock the CPU and RAM, and under voltage the RAM, and you’ll get very close numbers to a Rpi. Has to be a N100 though, didn’t look into but a N95 is significantly more inefficient
    - megous 3y ago
      Then Rpi4 is very inefficient even compare to other ARM boards. RK3399 based boards idle at 1.7W or ~1.2W with a binary blob TF-A firmware and suspend to 200mW. My Allwinner H3 based boards idle at similar power levels and I haven't measured suspend to RAM. On A64, suspend is ~60mW and is fast so it can be used regularly and you can wakeup the board in response to work being needed.
geerlingguy 3y ago
The 4x 2.5 GbE model I have draws 7-8W idle, 12-18W under load, add 1W per active network port. The Pi draws considerably less at idle, so could be worth it if you just have light or small bursts workloads and don't need the performance.

magicalhippo 3y ago

I just ordered a N100 unit too after I saw this[1] Reddit post about doing 7x 1080p transcode streams without sweating. There are some variants around, some with multiple NICs like this[1] ridiculously tiny thing sporting a N5095, some with a 2.5GbE port etc. I picked up this[3], but haven't received it yet so can't vouch. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/11u30jx/inteln100_6w_tdp_alder_lake_only_e_cores_doing_7x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/11u30jx/inteln100_6w_... [2]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005461064337.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005461064337.html [3]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142509880.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142509880.html

syntaxing 3y ago
I think you’re gonna love it, mine has a dual 2.5G Intel NIC. If I had to do it again, I might prefer the fanless CWWK ones with 4 NICs so I can do a LAGG or increase my bandwidth to my switch. A bit more expensive but more rugged and suitable for my application.

gorkish 3y ago

It really bothers me that ZERO of these mini PCs offer 10/25gbe or at least a single small PCIe slot to add it. They would be a dream for clustered storage...

magicalhippo 3y ago
They have limited PCIe lanes. The N100 I ordered has a 2.5GbE and from what I can see only a x2 M.2 M-key slot. However that should be sufficient for a 10G adapter, so while perhaps janky you could try to fit one of these[1] in there. Will have to resort to the 2242 M.2 SATA slot for storage though, or the USB ports. [1]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005065403928.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005065403928.html
bayindirh 3y ago
LattePanda has PCIe slots, if you prefer: https://www.lattepanda.com/blog-308782.html https://www.lattepanda.com/blog-308782.html 2.5gBE devices are also becoming more mainstream (Like Orange Pi 5 Plus, Radxa Rock 5). The main problem is not the interface in most cases, but the internal bandwidth on these boards. I'll be spinning up an Orange Pi 5 with 8GB of RAM as a home server shortly. Let's see how it goes.
- gorkish 3y ago
  I'm not really talking about the little "Pi-class" ARM SOC boards, but more the "edge compute" type hardware market that might be served by a small stack of NUCs. The internal bus on the Pi's SoC maxes out at 3.6gbps; it's clearly a non-starter for a high-IO project, but there are plenty that would be highly serviceable.
syntaxing 3y ago
It’ll be tough because you would need a dedicated PCIe x4 bus and above. I’m not sure many of these low power CPU would support that on top of supporting a SATA bus. Zimaboard has a PCIe expansion slot but it’s limited to 6.0 Gbps (guessing they use the rest of the bandwidth for something else like storage). You can increase your bandwidth if you have a multiple NIC computer though. You can tie in 2X 2.5Gbps to get about 4 Gbps to your switch. Edit: assuming you mean 25G and not 2.5G?